Hi new here - some advice pls

[81GGR]

Hi there,

I'm new here so pls excuse any silly questions.

I've just upgraded from a subaru forester (quite modified - making 217kw at all four wheels) to a 135i. Have had the car for about a week and am still getting used to it but its quite nice so far - i bought it second hand so its got 9000k on the clock and is well and truly run in. Its sapphire black with lemon interior, gps and hifi upgrades, sunroof and bmw performance wheels and a few other bits and pieces. Will post some pics when i get a chance.

Anyway, the bmw doesn't quite have the same go that my subaru had (the gearing in the bmw 6 speed is quite a bit longer than the subaru 6 speed which probably has a little to do with it) so I was wondering if you could let me know of a decent shop in brisbane I could have a chat to about some mods. To give an idea, my subaru did 0-100 in about 4.8 - 4.9 sec and 1/4 mile times in the high 12's (12.7 -12.9 range) - i'd love to replicate that in the 135i with some basic mods

I am thinking of a tune (reflash the ecu) and exhaust (or part of it), but I don't want to spend more than around $5k.

Anything I should or should not be doing? Also, I would prefer to keep the car sounding and looking as standard as possible - are there any real advantages to changing the rear muffler or is that noise only?

What power/0-100km times could i expect from a tune only?

Is it worth replacing the down pipes and leaving the rest of the exhaust stock as I understand from my reading so far they are the most restrictive part? (I am thinking of just doing the down pipes and a tune and seeing where that gets me).

Anyway, I look forward to reading more and will try and get along to a cruise some time to say hi.

Cheers,
Trev.

[airhead]

You could try Harding Performance - they are the distributor for DMS here in Australia:

www.dmsautomotive.com.au/

[HondaGoneRogue]

Sounds like you have a good plan. Most people wanting to upgrade power with a chip-tune are going with BMS Juice Box 3's. That is a very easy install. The tune + downpipes and an intercooler are sure ways to get you to the mid 12's easily. I ran a 13.2 with just the basic first rendition of the juicebox3 on crappy tires and a bad launch (2.3 60'). There's plenty of info floating around and great vendors that will set you up properly. As far as exhaust, it would be hard for me personally to do downpipes and still keep the somewhat restrictive midpipe\resonator\muffler. But, on the other hand, no one has seen tremendous gains from just an exhaust upgrade. About 12hp was the most I've heard of. Either way, your goal is easily attainable with much less than your budget of 5k. Heck you could even do JB3,Intercooler,DP's AND meth for less than 5k. I am assuming you aren't to concerned with warranty correct? If you are, I would also look into the Bavarian Tech Scanner tool. And welcome to the boards!

[MikeVictor]

Welcome, 81GGR.

It's worth bearing in mind that you're going to be putting down the power and torque you're after through only two wheels now, not four, so good quality rubber will be a must-have.

Otherwise you'll be watching the little orange TC light flash at you a lot.

[WOPALX]

My advise would be to tune first then add a LSD.

Tune wise a quality piggy back will be a better solution IMO, be easy to self install and the frequency of new maps is awsome.

Procede is around $1300 AUD with local (Australian) support, has full CANbus integration. PM adrian@vishnu for info, he is based in Sydney. Locally you could talk to xsboost as he runs the product in his 335.

BMS (JB3) is also quite good but not as feature rich. No CANbus integration and also relies on the factory timing to keep any knock in control. Cheaper than the procede but service is all out of the US but very good none the less.

Andrew from SouthernBM has a wealth of knowledge so maybe hit him up for some advise too.

Originally Posted by 81GGR

Hi there,

I'm new here so pls excuse any silly questions.

I've just upgraded from a subaru forester (quite modified - making 217kw at all four wheels) to a 135i. Have had the car for about a week and am still getting used to it but its quite nice so far - i bought it second hand so its got 9000k on the clock and is well and truly run in. Its sapphire black with lemon interior, gps and hifi upgrades, sunroof and bmw performance wheels and a few other bits and pieces. Will post some pics when i get a chance.

Anyway, the bmw doesn't quite have the same go that my subaru had (the gearing in the bmw 6 speed is quite a bit longer than the subaru 6 speed which probably has a little to do with it) so I was wondering if you could let me know of a decent shop in brisbane I could have a chat to about some mods. To give an idea, my subaru did 0-100 in about 4.8 - 4.9 sec and 1/4 mile times in the high 12's (12.7 -12.9 range) - i'd love to replicate that in the 135i with some basic mods

I am thinking of a tune (reflash the ecu) and exhaust (or part of it), but I don't want to spend more than around $5k.

Anything I should or should not be doing? Also, I would prefer to keep the car sounding and looking as standard as possible - are there any real advantages to changing the rear muffler or is that noise only?

What power/0-100km times could i expect from a tune only?

Is it worth replacing the down pipes and leaving the rest of the exhaust stock as I understand from my reading so far they are the most restrictive part? (I am thinking of just doing the down pipes and a tune and seeing where that gets me).

Anyway, I look forward to reading more and will try and get along to a cruise some time to say hi.

Cheers,
Trev.

[BBK]

Get a tune, and you should be in the high 12s region. Simple, and can cost you under $1000!

Can't remember his name, but there is a member in Brisbane that only has a JB3 tune and did a 12.5! Although that was with non-run flat tyres. There are many people with just tunes doing under 13s, so if you wanted to make sure you can do it, maybe an exhaust/intercooler? Not sure on many workshops in Brisbane stocking exhausts/coolers, mainly just ECU flashes.

[BMW86]

Welcome to the forums mate. Any tune should net you around 100hp and the most popular is the JB3 which is completely PNP and undetectable provided that you don't throw any codes. Most users tend to go with a barvarian tech scanning tool to erase any codes for peace of mind though. Both can be had for about US$600. Catless downpipes is your next biggest mod but they are illegal. They can make around 30whp. Catted downpipes don't produce as many gains. A full downpipe back exhaust should net you at least 10-20whp and a FMIC should be about the same. The intake is debatable, many people believe the stock intake is the least restrictive although many users still opt for an aftermarket one. Also, the RFT are terrible performance tyres, especially after you put a few km on them. I recommend going with a conventional performance tyre and you're good to go. I'm running the RE-11's and they are awesome. An LSD will help you put the power down and get sub 2 sec 60footers but it's very expensive compared to other power mods.

[adrian@vishnu]

8IGGR,

I know how you feel. My other car is a 250kW ATW WRX that I use for motorsports. It is pretty modded probably like your forester.

As stated here, I sell the Procede. When my car has Procede and nothing else I was getting 0-100 in 4.6s. This was with some wheel spin, so with good tyres, maybe quicker. Since then I have added decat pipes and dual cone intakes. About to dyno it, but I expect 250+ kw ATW (was 239 with just the Procede).

You can easily meet your requirements with just a tune. I can provide Procede for $1250 inc GST delivered to your door overnight, and I provide phone support in local time zone. You can do plenty of searching here to find out the difference between tune options. I find lots of 135 owners tend to consider price more than 335 owners, so JB3 seems to be more common in the 135 community. I think it is the other way around in 335 community. One thing to keep in mind is that if you go for decat pipes later, and want the BT tool, there is very little price between JB3+O2 sims+BT and Procede which has all this capability out of the box. Most flash tunes will be more money and not offer O2 sims, or logging etc.

Cheers,

Adrian

[81GGR]

Thanks for your advice everyone. I think I will look into a tuning option first and then go from there if I want a bit more. It seems the piggy backs are more popular with the bmw's where as the reflash was a better product for the subaru...hmm.

I'll be getting some good rubber when the run-flats need replacing thats for sure - I have already had the orange DTC light swear at me a number of times.

Adrian, is the Procede easy to install & un-install (ie. before a service) in the event I do want to keep my warranty? (Ie. plug and play with no soldering etc?) Is it based on the ChipTorque xede as I understand they supplied vishnu with processors in the US for a while? I'd prefer to have the local support even if it costs more first up than the JB3 - plus I like that it will provide for options down the track if I decide to do more - when new (better) maps are developed, as inevitably occurs with tuning - are there free upgrades?

Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu

8IGGR,

I know how you feel. My other car is a 250kW ATW WRX that I use for motorsports. It is pretty modded probably like your forester.

As stated here, I sell the Procede. When my car has Procede and nothing else I was getting 0-100 in 4.6s. This was with some wheel spin, so with good tyres, maybe quicker. Since then I have added decat pipes and dual cone intakes. About to dyno it, but I expect 250+ kw ATW (was 239 with just the Procede).

You can easily meet your requirements with just a tune. I can provide Procede for $1250 inc GST delivered to your door overnight, and I provide phone support in local time zone. You can do plenty of searching here to find out the difference between tune options. I find lots of 135 owners tend to consider price more than 335 owners, so JB3 seems to be more common in the 135 community. I think it is the other way around in 335 community. One thing to keep in mind is that if you go for decat pipes later, and want the BT tool, there is very little price between JB3+O2 sims+BT and Procede which has all this capability out of the box. Most flash tunes will be more money and not offer O2 sims, or logging etc.

Cheers,

Adrian

[airhead]

Originally Posted by 81GGR

Thanks for your advice everyone. I think I will look into a tuning option first and then go from there if I want a bit more. It seems the piggy backs are more popular with the bmw's where as the reflash was a better product for the subaru...hmm.

Possibly that's more because that's what is mostly available? I'm coming from an Audi which they are all reflash. DMS I mentioned is a reflash but it's also a lot pricier than JB3 or Vishnu...

There's less chance of being detected with a piggyback, just unplug it and it's gone but from a software point of view, it seems like an inefficient way to do things.

[adrian@vishnu]

Originally Posted by 81GGR

Thanks for your advice everyone. I think I will look into a tuning option first and then go from there if I want a bit more. It seems the piggy backs are more popular with the bmw's where as the reflash was a better product for the subaru...hmm.

I'll be getting some good rubber when the run-flats need replacing thats for sure - I have already had the orange DTC light swear at me a number of times.

Adrian, is the Procede easy to install & un-install (ie. before a service) in the event I do want to keep my warranty? (Ie. plug and play with no soldering etc?) Is it based on the ChipTorque xede as I understand they supplied vishnu with processors in the US for a while? I'd prefer to have the local support even if it costs more first up than the JB3 - plus I like that it will provide for options down the track if I decide to do more - when new (better) maps are developed, as inevitably occurs with tuning - are there free upgrades?

Piggy backs work a bit different on the BMW N54 engine to the Subarus. The BMW have closed loop mixture control, and by fiddling with this, you can get repeatable mixtures, where piggybacking the Subaru was done with the air flow meter, and could be inconsistent. On my Subaru I have a standalone ECU. This I think is the best option for mor motorsport application. Absolute control of everything, but not really feasible on the BMW with direct injection. The flashes on the BMW are nowhere near as mature as Subaru/EVO, and as ar result, the piggy backs provide better performance and more features. The BMW is also proving to be robust (turbos aside), so you can get away with quite rudimentary mods and they seem to take it (not that the Procede is rudimentary, but some earlier piggybacks were just some resitors in a box).

Procede is plug and play.... no soldering or anything. It takes about 5-10 minutes to get to the ECU, about 5 minutes to install or uninstall the Procede, and about 5-10 minutes to put some bits back on to cover the ECU again. I do it in my car in about 10 minutes all up, but first timers normally take 30-40 minutes. Considering the service intervals are large, it is not a big deal to do this before and after servicing, and then there is no evidence the car is not standard.

Vishnu used the Chiptorque XEDE on WRXs and EVOs. They started selling the XEDE on BMWs for only a month or two, and then changed to the Procede. The Procede has nothing to do with the XEDE. Early versions used the same box which is an off the shelf box that anyone can buy. Later versions use a custom aluminium box. There is no link at all between Chiptorque and Procede. I can however say that I do most of the product development on the Procede... software/firmware/hardware. So I know the product better than anyone, and I am happy to provide support over phone at all times I am not asleep.

All upgrades are free on Procede. Initially we had some hardware upgrades (worked out how to do things better with some wiring mods) which we charged for (nominal charge or wiring and freight), but the hardware is stable now, so all future mods will be free. We are making big leaps in our development at the moment, so this is very valuable. The V4 of our product is heaps better in many ways than where we were 6 months ago, and this will continue for a while yet. There is no need to do every upgrade. Most people just do the major ones every 6 months or so.

Cheers,

Adrian

[81GGR]

Thanks Adrian,

Could you please pm me your phone number. I'm keen to get a processor from you and give it a try : )

I presume it comes with install instructions and some helpful pictures? Otherwise we could be on the phone a while as I don't even know where the ecu is yet!

Trev.

[adrian@vishnu]

Originally Posted by 81GGR

Thanks Adrian,

Could you please pm my your phone number. I'm keen to get a processor from you and give it a try : )

I presume it comes with install instructions and some helpful pictures? Otherwise we could be on the phone a while as I don't even know where the ecu is yet!

Trev.

Hey Trev,

I will PM you my phone number, but just posting some installation data here so anyone looking can benefit. The link I am providing below is the main place to look for support online. Most people can find anything they need here. particularly, check the bottom install video which shows step by step how to install the product in a video, so you can get a very good idea of what is required. Only tools required are an 8mm socket (I use a screw driver with 8mm socket fitting), and a small flat head screwdriver. Additionally there is links to instructions on how to upgrade firmware and maps, how to datalog, where the latest and greatest is available etc.

<http://www.vishnutuning.com/BMW_support.htm>

Cheers,

Adrian

[x5mad]

It looks like you crave the numbers so a piggback tune will probably be best for you. Just for comparison mine is a DMS flashed 135 vert auto with pzero tyres. With an average launch I manged 0-100 in 5.0s and 1/4 in 12.9. I reckon good launch should see those figures come down to 4.8s and 12.8s. And remeber this is for for a vert. So your coupe should easily get the numbers you're after with just a tune.

If you decide to go for the DMS reflash just remember to mention that you're a 1addicts member and that Jason sent you. (I have negotiated 10% discount for members)

[TimMc]

Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu

...some earlier piggybacks were just some resitors in a box

Hi Adrian.
What's you're opinion of SSTT? Is it essentially just "resistors in a box", telling the car that it's got less boost than it really has so it will actually deliver more? If so, is there a downside to this?
Cheers.

[adrian@vishnu]

TimMc,

It is a little more than resistors in a box, but not much more. It increases boost only. It has no idea even what RPM the engine is doing. It cannot alter fuel mixtures or ignition timing, and the boost increase is a blind increase with no regard to engine operating conditions (throttle/rpm).

Is there a downside... I think there is, but I have no proof. Really these type of product are more conservative in the power output, so they probably achieve reliability through conservatism rather than good tuning. They are an OK product for people who want easier install. I should say that there is a small difference between a 335 and 135 in the engine bay that means these are not that easy to install on a 135, but pretty easy on a 335.

Cheers,

Adrian

[sparoz]

Welcome to the forum. I agree with everyone above - go with a tune, and it still left with plenty for new wheels an tyres.

IIRC, the RFT is 2-3 kgs heavier on each corner, swapping them out will definitely give you a lot less unsprung, and the wheels are 22-23 lbs, and there are light weight wheels which are selling for about US$2-300 in the 16lbs range. Saving 20kg unsprung would be quite substantial.

The Quaiffe would be the next step I guess after that?

Don't forget the sways too - for bang for buck improvements.

[81GGR]

Originally Posted by sparoz

Welcome to the forum. I agree with everyone above - go with a tune, and it still left with plenty for new wheels an tyres.

IIRC, the RFT is 2-3 kgs heavier on each corner, swapping them out will definitely give you a lot less unsprung, and the wheels are 22-23 lbs, and there are light weight wheels which are selling for about US$2-300 in the 16lbs range. Saving 20kg unsprung would be quite substantial.

The Quaiffe would be the next step I guess after that?

Don't forget the sways too - for bang for buck improvements.

i already have the bmw performance wheels which are apparently lightweight already? i am looking forward to some new tyres eventually and speaking with adrian more about the procede soon. i am starting to like the idea of being able to remove the piggyback before servicing more and more. = particularly if the reflash options are not as advanced as i got used to on the subaru.

I've never had run flats before but presume i can just put ordinary tyres (ie: not runflats) on my current rims.

i haven't had a chance to take the car for a decent run through the hills yet to see what i think of the suspension - but so far i am pretty happy with the handling. although a rsb did make a massive improvement on my forester - but that was a boat to start with whereas the 135i is not. my plan for the car is to keep the factory ride/noise/look etc but just improve a few small areas in performance so i enjoy it that little bit more.

i think i will need some convincing to go with the quaiffe diff. they look simple enough to install - but are pricey!

[sparoz]

Originally Posted by 81GGR

i already have the bmw performance wheels which are apparently lightweight already? i am looking forward to some new tyres eventually and speaking with adrian more about the procede soon. i am starting to like the idea of being able to remove the piggyback before servicing more and more. = particularly if the reflash options are not as advanced as i got used to on the subaru.

I've never had run flats before but presume i can just put ordinary tyres (ie: not runflats) on my current rims.

i haven't had a chance to take the car for a decent run through the hills yet to see what i think of the suspension - but so far i am pretty happy with the handling. although a rsb did make a massive improvement on my forester - but that was a boat to start with whereas the 135i is not. my plan for the car is to keep the factory ride/noise/look etc but just improve a few small areas in performance so i enjoy it that little bit more.

i think i will need some convincing to go with the quaiffe diff. they look simple enough to install - but are pricey!

The performance wheels only looks better and doesn't shed that much weight if you look at the stat, they are still 20lb+. Non-RFT will fit the current rims. The 135i is as close to my previous e46 interms of handling. Unless you have the performance suspension, the standard setup was too soft for my liking, and it has quite a bit of body roll than what I was used to. I guess it would be very flat compare to the forester.

With your budget and what you want to achieve, I think it is easily done.

[81GGR]

just twisting the mrs' arm adrian and will be in touch...

[adrian@vishnu]

Originally Posted by 81GGR

just twisting the mrs' arm adrian and will be in touch...

Contact me for arm twisting techniques!!

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by x5mad

It looks like you crave the numbers so a piggback tune will probably be best for you. Just for comparison mine is a DMS flashed 135 vert auto with pzero tyres. With an average launch I manged 0-100 in 5.0s and 1/4 in 12.9. I reckon good launch should see those figures come down to 4.8s and 12.8s. And remeber this is for for a vert. So your coupe should easily get the numbers you're after with just a tune.

If you decide to go for the DMS reflash just remember to mention that you're a 1addicts member and that Jason sent you. (I have negotiated 10% discount for members)

Hey mate nice times. Did you get these at the track or using Dynolicious?