Daytime Running Lights

[bmw1racer]

Originally Posted by jkoral

First thing I did when getting home with the car was look up in the manual how to turn off the DRLs.

Same here.

[Walt White Coupe]

Originally Posted by Section147

On a very overcast day? Perhaps. But if you can't see a car in the middle of the afternoon under
normal conditions, maybe it's time to turn in your license. I'm also old enough to remember the
days when we didn't have seat belts or airbags. To equate this "debate" with those is ludicrous.

Perhaps. But if you can't see a car in the middle of the afternoon under
normal conditions, maybe it's time to turn in your license.

This is not about me or you, it's about all the other dimwitted drivers out there.
The debate is the same. Except there is no downside that people can point to. Seat Belts: If the car catches fire you won't be able to get out.
Air Bags: They will encourage people to drive more dangerously.

So, what is the downside to leaving them on?

[Section147]

Originally Posted by Walt White Coupe

So, what is the downside to leaving them on?

1), Glare. Poorly designed DRLs (i.e. - the majority) are simply hi-beams at 50%. This was the "solution" the geniuses at GM
and many other companies designed as they rushed DRLs to market when it deemed the next great safety innovation.
2). They make our motorcycle brothers and sisters invisible. Before DRLs, you actually noticed when a bike was on the road
on a bright day. Now they simply blend in with all of the Chevys. It's deadly. Ask a biker.
3). The pompous studies. For every "positive" study referenced, I can point to one discounting DRL's effectiveness.
4). The "we know what's best for you" factor. If the American automakers, the NHTSA and the Insurance Institute were actually
serious about the issue, they'd figure out how to implement the same system we have in our BMWs. If we truly need yet another
safety valve to protect us against ourselves (and the "dimwitted drivers" you cite), install sensors to activate headlights when
ambient light is insufficient. The technology has existed for decades and would not be cost prohibitive.

[panoz7]

Originally Posted by Section147

2). They make our motorcycle brothers and sisters invisible. Before DRLs, you actually noticed when a bike was on the road
on a bright day. Now they simply blend in with all of the Chevys. It's deadly. Ask a biker.

I don't get this one. So what if they blend in? I don't want to merge into that chevy just as much as I don't want to merge into a motorcyclist. They're still just as visible -- just less distinguishable. Admittedly I'm not a motorcyclist, so maybe there's something else to this.

I'm completely in favor of DRLs as long as the tail lights come on too (like on our cars). Many cars have gauges that are perpetually lit, and I can't count the number of times I see people driving along at dusk or in light rain who have no idea that their headlights are off. Auto headlights don't help the situation because often they don't turn on in rain. Worse, people rely on them, and never think to check if they're on or off. For the same reason, I think front-only DRLs are stupid.

[Walt White Coupe]

I think front-only DRLs are stupid.

You are just wrong. It's about making your car more visible to cars that are approaching you. That's the most danger to your life. For the most part, your brake lights will take care of cars behind you.

Back when air bags were being debated in the automotive press I remember one magazine author that suggested to make cars safer and encourage safe driving, he said forget about an air bag, put a spear in front of the passenger seat and in the center of the steering wheel. And he wasn't making a joke. This debate reminds me that those "dimwits" are still around.

[panoz7]

Originally Posted by Walt White Coupe

I think front-only DRLs are stupid.

You are just wrong. It's about making your car more visible to cars that are approaching you. That's the most danger to your life. For the most part, your brake lights will take care of cars behind you.

Did you read the rest of what I said? I think front-only DRLs lead to people not turning their headlights on in the rain or at dusk because they think the DRLs light up all their lights, when they really don't. I can't see any downside to paring front DRLs with rear DRLs. It seems to work great on our cars.

[panoz7]

Also, who knew this was such a decisive issue?

[Walt White Coupe]

I can't see any downside to paring front DRLs with rear DRLs. It seems to work great on our cars.

And I agree.

[DtE1]

In safety zones where fines double (New Mexico for instance) headlights are required to be on for visibility. Not having DRL's and not turning on your headlights gives the troopers one more reason to stop you.

[bmw1racer]

Originally Posted by panoz7

Also, who knew this was such a decisive issue?

Divisive.

[panoz7]

Originally Posted by bmw1racer

Divisive.

Who knew I was such a moron

[bmw1racer]

Originally Posted by panoz7

Who knew I was such a moron

Actually, being decisive could be divisive.

[leftyone]

DRL's are just another example of the lefts nany statism.

Mine are off, and I keep auto lights on.

During a rain storm, most DRL cars are driving along without rear lights.

[Section147]

Just had to shield my eyes from a Saturn VUE sitting across from me at a stop light driving home. Not a cloud in the sky, mid-day and I need
a red SUV with it's brights on at 50% to notice it? Absolute lunacy.
And I'm sorry...if the motorcycle argument makes no sense to you, I don't know what to say to make it any clearer.
DRLS should be outlawed until all manufacturers can agree that LEDs are the only sane solution. If Kia can do it, so can Government Motors.
And even then, I want the right to decide whether or not I'm going to have them on or off.

[panoz7]

Originally Posted by Section147

Just had to shield my eyes from a Saturn VUE sitting across from me at a stop light driving home. Not a cloud in the sky, mid-day and I need
a red SUV with it's brights on at 50% to notice it? Absolute lunacy.

They weren't useful in this case, but what if it was dusk or it was raining, and that Saturn driver didn't turn on their headlights? I think that's the point of the DRLs.

Originally Posted by Section147

And I'm sorry...if the motorcycle argument makes no sense to you, I don't know what to say to make it any clearer.

You can explain why it's important for them to be visible and distinguishable. i get the visible part (which isn't affected by other cars having headlights on) but not the distinguishable part. I'm genuinely curious here.

EDIT: Sort of answered my own question by googling: http://drivingassessment.uiowa.edu/s...valloPinto.pdf

Daytime Running Lights (DRL) on motorcycles have been shown to counteract the inherently lower sensory conspicuity of these vehicles and to significantly improve their safety. The advantage of the use of DRL exclusively by motorcycles is presently becoming lost by the increasing use of DRLs on cars. The present experiment aimed at evaluating the effects of car DRLs on motorcycle perception in a situation that specifically brought attentional conspicuity to bear. Photographs representing complex urban traffic scenes were displayed to 24 participants who were asked to detect vulnerable road users (motorcyclists, bicyclists, pedestrians) appearing at different locations and distances. Car DRLs noticeably hampered motorcycle perception compared to conditions where car lights were not on, especially when the motorcycle was at a greater distance from the observer and when it was located in the central part of the visual scene. Car DRLs were also detrimental to the perception of bicyclists and pedestrians. These findings suggest that more attention should be paid to motorcyclists and other vulnerable road users when introducing car DRLs. Several means of improving motorcycle conspicuity in car DRL environments are discussed.

I'm not sure I completely agree that motorcyclists belong in the same category as bicyclists and pedestrians. It's important for bicyclists and pedestrians to be immediately distinguishable because of the speed differential, but it seems like being visible would be enough for motorcyclists who are traveling at normal speeds.

It's pretty obvious no opinions are going to be changed here, and my opinion is probably biased, or at the very lest, limited because I'm not a motorcyclist, so I think I'm going to bow out of the discussion.

[panoz7]

Actually, I have one last questions:

I've noticed that the angel eyes on later E39 5 series and some of the earlier last gen 7 series are really dim in comparison to the current ones. Does anyone know if they were originally intended to act as DRLs or were they just a styling feature?

[Section147]

Originally Posted by panoz7

...but what if it was dusk or it was raining, and that Saturn driver didn't turn on their headlights? I think that's the point of the DRLs.

At dusk - at the very least - one should have their parking lights on. When it's raining, those who do NOT have their headlights on should be shot.
Or at least ticketed. To inconvenience every other single driver by mandating that we protect everyone from imbeciles behind the wheel is the
epitome of (as mentioned earlier) the nanny state. Have headlights come on automatically with wipers! Simple enough. Or...as I stated above,
install sensors to activate headlights when ambient light is insufficient. Problem solved, case closed.

Originally Posted by panoz7

Does anyone know if they were originally intended to act as DRLs or were they just a styling feature?

That's a very good question. AEs seem to have been around forever on BMWs...not sure if it was born as a "cool" or a "safety" factor.

[135iMike]

Always on.

[miiipilot]

Mine are switched off. I just don't like the halogen dirty white lights. Maybe if I had a AE cool white conversion...I would keep them on.

[Cozy]

Is it just me who likes the look of the trade-mark BMW halo's? I think it suits the car well and show's its presence on the road (totally unique DRL/side light design). At least here in the UK anyone with a lower powered engine (116i/120i) seems to spec the halogen lights, AE denotes 130i/135i/1M mostly I've noticed and if you come screaming down the road with them on I noticed people see you from far behind and move out of the way .

I've just removed my pure white AE bulbs, they looked ok but sort of gave that 'tuner' look which I'm not keen on. Anyway the main reason I did this was because I had an oppotunity to see another BMW coming towards me with the OE 'yellow' bulbs, it really stood out and this was a very long way ahead, I couldn't miss the car...this was in daylight. I parked my car up down a road and walked away, the white AE's were not nearly as visible and IMO lost their function. In daylight they just blended, at dusk they came to life a little more but not nearly as much as OE. There's a reason why BMW used this bulb colour, so it can be seen at all times, they only way to have a pure white light seen at all times of the day is a comple LED unit like they now use otherwise don't you think they'd have just used an HID bulb already. You can spend $$$ on fancy H8 LED bulbs but you're wasting your money if it's functionality of the DRL you want to retain.

Anyway, I leave my DRL's on as I like the style and they server a purpose too, including making me seen. However, if I was driving any other car which seems to leave the factory with those damn Audi-style strip LEDs then they'd be off, they look so cheap.

[Qunadry]

Originally Posted by Qunadry

Do you leave your DRT's on or turn them off? I can't decide which I like.

I would have never guessed the feelings about DRL's were this strong. I do agree with the comments about GM's DRL's. I can't tell the difference between the DRL's and headlights on my wife's 2011 Buick Regal (which by the way is a decent car I don't mind driving when we need more room/4 doors).

[1Pirate]

Originally Posted by bmw1racer

Same here.

Me too! If I want the lights on I turn them on myself. Way too much big brother in today's world for me.