carbon fiber drive shaft....

myke354 · 12-29-2010, 10:27 AM

whats up everyone i just wanted to see what you guys thought the pros and cons were in doing one...

i have a place here in FL that can make them.. and from talking to them a carbon shaft will weight in at just about 16 lbs witch is alot less then the stock one..

onefastman · 12-29-2010, 10:59 AM

Depends on the price...

myke354 · 12-29-2010, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefastman

Depends on the price...

1500 for the carbon
600 for chromoly
300 for Street - Strip Aluminum Driveshafts.

akak1997 · 12-29-2010, 01:13 PM

is there enough clearance for a 1 piece drive shaft? if it's a perfect fit, it'll be a nice mod for <1500.

Pros would be better throttle response, the effect would be like a light weight flywheel when you're in gear. it'd also gain some HP (maybe 10hp?) thru out the entire rpm range.

Cons would be possible vibrations, stock is a 2 piece drive shaft, so whatever movement from the rear wheels will be somewhat reduced by the stock shaft. Also, if the shaft is not properly balanced, you'll also get vibrations, or worst, it might screw up your diff and/or transmission.

BerkTechnology · 12-29-2010, 02:01 PM

Sounds cool but IMO there are 100 other things that you can do first before getting to a light weight driveshaft. The thought hasn't even crossed my mind to upgrade our drive shaft.

For drivetain mods an LSD should be your #1 priority as it will give you eons more in overal driving performance vs. a lightweight driveshaft.

We're running an OS Giken clutch type LSD which is 100% silent other than the sound of both tires burning out.

myke354 · 12-29-2010, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akak1997

is there enough clearance for a 1 piece drive shaft? if it's a perfect fit, it'll be a nice mod for <1500.

Pros would be better throttle response, the effect would be like a light weight flywheel when you're in gear. it'd also gain some HP (maybe 10hp?) thru out the entire rpm range.

Cons would be possible vibrations, stock is a 2 piece drive shaft, so whatever movement from the rear wheels will be somewhat reduced by the stock shaft. Also, if the shaft is not properly balanced, you'll also get vibrations, or worst, it might screw up your diff and/or transmission.

this is off there site:

Advantages of Carbon Fiber

* Lighter than steel or aluminum.
* Three times torsional strength of steel.
* Torsional spring rate allows better tire hook-up.
* Torsional spring rate allows smoother shifting.
* Less shock load to the differential.
* Eliminates or dampens high speed vibrations.
* Reduces transmission and differential breakage.
* Characteristics can be varied by changing the wind, angles or diameter. PST offers both steel and 7075 Billet Aluminum yokes.
* In drag racing applications - a better 60 Ft. time.
* ET's have been lowered in some cases by as much as .120.
* In stock car racing better control out of corners is the result of the torsional spring rate.
* In road racing smoother shifting and better durability of transmission and differential have been reported.
* Tested on Cobra's at 180 MPH on Dyno with no vibrations.
* A much greater safety factor - carbon fiber will return to a fiber and not create shrapnel under the car, as would aluminum or steel shafts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BerkTechnology

Sounds cool but IMO there are 100 other things that you can do first before getting to a light weight driveshaft. The thought hasn't even crossed my mind to upgrade our drive shaft.

For drivetain mods an LSD should be your #1 priority as it will give you eons more in overal driving performance vs. a lightweight driveshaft.

We're running an OS Giken clutch type LSD which is 100% silent other than the sound of both tires burning out.

i understand 100% and i have already looked into a better lsd.. i have also took some ideas off the things u guys have on ur car ( seats light weight battery carbon hood and trunk and now looking for light weight brakes...
the main reason i am looking more into a drive shaft cause i know on my old sti and s2000 it made it feel like a whole new car it rev'ed so much faster and on the sti i saw full boost 500-750 rpms sooner then stock..

i am just a true believer in lighter is faster...

BerkTechnology · 12-30-2010, 02:18 PM

Correct lighter is faster. I'm just saying to put your $$ that gives you the best ROI for your needs. As for drivetrain mods I just don't think that an aftermarket driveshaft is one of them.

onefastman · 12-30-2010, 02:51 PM

I agree unless it is REALLY cheap and $1500 is not really cheap. I could get a lot of other things that would make it faster for a lot less.

myke354 · 12-30-2010, 04:06 PM

oh i agree 100% this isnt something u would do as a first mod .. this is something that i looked into after all else is done.. but i know for a fact that on the berk track car (witch is already nasty fast ) that this is something that would help in the end ..

i mean the turbos would spool faster the motor wouldnt work as hard mpg would go up and on top of that more power would make it to the wheels.. on most rwd car there is almost a 20% drive train loss and with this that can be as low as 12% drive train loss... witch to me is well worth 1500 ..

Timberwolf · 12-30-2010, 11:35 PM

FWIW I've heard that one of the cons of running a cf ds is that on a car running cats, or turbos the heat can eventually dry the resin out and the lamination or what not begins to disintegrate thus leading to failure.

myke354 · 12-31-2010, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrackRat

The polar moment of inertia is so low on the driveshaft, based on it's diameter and mass location, that it's hard to see any performance gain be it on the street or track from a lightweight shaft. The only tangible advantage is static weight. Few people even with race cars can justify $1500 to save a few pounds of static weight.

Anyone who starts touting big gains in performance from changing the driveshaft is talking nonsense. They may believe the nonsense, but it's pure nonsense from an engineering perspective. No disrespect intended but anyone who tells you a turbo spools faster or makes boost sooner because they changed the driveshaft... has no understanding what a driveshaft does or how a turbo functions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timberwolf

FWIW I've heard that one of the cons of running a cf ds is that on a car running cats, or turbos the heat can eventually dry the resin out and the lamination or what not begins to disintegrate thus leading to failure.

@TrackRat:

thank you for your comment but i have to save u are quite wrong... when u replace to a light weight drive shaft may it be carbon or alum. the motor in turn doesnt work as hard and revs up to just about 1000 rpms faster then on a stock car ... now if the motor can rev faster the turbos will spool faster do u see now how they all go together...

@Timberwolf i ran one on my s2k and a sti and never had a problems with it getting to hot and braking

IDBMW · 12-31-2010, 06:21 AM

I would think looking at the wheel weight would be far more important than weight reduction in a ds in reducing rotational inertia in the drive train. With the wheels you have 4 heavy weights out there on the end of the drive train. If you could shave a few pounds off each and reduce the rotational inertia of the wheels you would have far better gains than the cf ds.

And with a one piece ds it could create issues with warranty.

pixelblue · 12-31-2010, 08:09 AM

I am planning on converting to a light weight single mass fly wheel when it's time to replace the clutch. Dinan and turner offer solutions. Shaving 12 lbs in weight with obvious benefits to throttle response

onefastman · 12-31-2010, 10:05 AM

Why not clutch masters?

myke354 · 12-31-2010, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pixelblue

I am planning on converting to a light weight single mass fly wheel when it's time to replace the clutch. Dinan and turner offer solutions. Shaving 12 lbs in weight with obvious benefits to throttle response

look into the spec one its cheaper and weighs the same...

pixelblue · 12-31-2010, 10:28 AM

I don't think clutch masters offer a fly wheel for our car but would consider using their clutch assembly. have to look into spec one. here is the link for turners fly wheel http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...ID=520-200-240

pixelblue · 12-31-2010, 10:33 AM

so spec one is $100 cheaper than turners but weights 2 lbs more. always good to have options

ND40oz · 12-31-2010, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pixelblue

I don't think clutch masters offer a fly wheel for our car but would consider using their clutch assembly. have to look into spec one. here is the link for turners fly wheel http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...ID=520-200-240

Quote:

Originally Posted by pixelblue

so spec one is $100 cheaper than turners but weights 2 lbs more. always good to have options

Your link to the one Turner carries is for the N51/N52 and I didn't see one on their website for the N54, what's the weight of the N54s or is it the same part?

pixelblue · 12-31-2010, 11:13 AM

oops, I didn't notice it was only for N51/52. well in that case the choices are spec one which weighs in at 14 lbs and cost $520 and dinans which is ridiculously expensive at $2k and weighs in at 21.5 lbs vs 24 lbs for stock

onefastman · 12-31-2010, 11:49 AM

I wouldnt use spec, their stuff has had so many failures.

onefastman · 12-31-2010, 11:52 AM

Also I just looked and clutchmasters.com does sell fly wheels for the 135i both as a kit and seperate.

pixelblue · 12-31-2010, 12:09 PM

^ it seems they do. $895 but doesn't say how much it weighs. have to look into the specs

12-29-2010, 10:27 AM	#1
myke354 Enlisted Member 6 Rep 44 Posts Drives: 09 135i Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: orlando fl iTrader: (0)	carbon fiber drive shaft.... whats up everyone i just wanted to see what you guys thought the pros and cons were in doing one... i have a place here in FL that can make them.. and from talking to them a carbon shaft will weight in at just about 16 lbs witch is alot less then the stock one.. __________________ WHEN LIFE SLOWS DOWN... DOWN SHIFT !!
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12-29-2010, 10:59 AM	#2
onefastman Major General 159 Rep 5,689 Posts Drives: 2009 135i 2011 e92m dct Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Earth iTrader: (15)	Depends on the price... __________________ Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(1addicts.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise.
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12-29-2010, 01:13 PM	#4
akak1997 Major 63 Rep 1,159 Posts Drives: BMW 135 @ 135mph Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 135i [0.00]	is there enough clearance for a 1 piece drive shaft? if it's a perfect fit, it'll be a nice mod for <1500. Pros would be better throttle response, the effect would be like a light weight flywheel when you're in gear. it'd also gain some HP (maybe 10hp?) thru out the entire rpm range. Cons would be possible vibrations, stock is a 2 piece drive shaft, so whatever movement from the rear wheels will be somewhat reduced by the stock shaft. Also, if the shaft is not properly balanced, you'll also get vibrations, or worst, it might screw up your diff and/or transmission.
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12-29-2010, 02:01 PM	#5
BerkTechnology Lieutenant Colonel 223 Rep 1,565 Posts Drives: Fast Join Date: May 2008 Location: Irvine, CA iTrader: (1)	Sounds cool but IMO there are 100 other things that you can do first before getting to a light weight driveshaft. The thought hasn't even crossed my mind to upgrade our drive shaft. For drivetain mods an LSD should be your #1 priority as it will give you eons more in overal driving performance vs. a lightweight driveshaft. We're running an OS Giken clutch type LSD which is 100% silent other than the sound of both tires burning out.
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12-30-2010, 02:18 PM	#7
BerkTechnology Lieutenant Colonel 223 Rep 1,565 Posts Drives: Fast Join Date: May 2008 Location: Irvine, CA iTrader: (1)	Correct lighter is faster. I'm just saying to put your $$ that gives you the best ROI for your needs. As for drivetrain mods I just don't think that an aftermarket driveshaft is one of them.
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12-30-2010, 02:51 PM	#8
onefastman Major General 159 Rep 5,689 Posts Drives: 2009 135i 2011 e92m dct Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Earth iTrader: (15)	I agree unless it is REALLY cheap and $1500 is not really cheap. I could get a lot of other things that would make it faster for a lot less. __________________ Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(1addicts.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise.
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12-30-2010, 04:06 PM	#9
myke354 Enlisted Member 6 Rep 44 Posts Drives: 09 135i Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: orlando fl iTrader: (0)	oh i agree 100% this isnt something u would do as a first mod .. this is something that i looked into after all else is done.. but i know for a fact that on the berk track car (witch is already nasty fast ) that this is something that would help in the end .. i mean the turbos would spool faster the motor wouldnt work as hard mpg would go up and on top of that more power would make it to the wheels.. on most rwd car there is almost a 20% drive train loss and with this that can be as low as 12% drive train loss... witch to me is well worth 1500 .. __________________ WHEN LIFE SLOWS DOWN... DOWN SHIFT !!
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12-30-2010, 11:35 PM	#10
Timberwolf Captain 196 Rep 785 Posts Drives: People crazy Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Location, Location iTrader: (0)	FWIW I've heard that one of the cons of running a cf ds is that on a car running cats, or turbos the heat can eventually dry the resin out and the lamination or what not begins to disintegrate thus leading to failure. __________________ 991 Turbo 993 GT2 Outlaw
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12-31-2010, 06:21 AM	#12
IDBMW Captain 41 Rep 825 Posts Drives: 2019 X3 M40i Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Boise, ID iTrader: (0)	I would think looking at the wheel weight would be far more important than weight reduction in a ds in reducing rotational inertia in the drive train. With the wheels you have 4 heavy weights out there on the end of the drive train. If you could shave a few pounds off each and reduce the rotational inertia of the wheels you would have far better gains than the cf ds. And with a one piece ds it could create issues with warranty. __________________ 2019 X3 M40i - Black Sapphire Metallic - Mocha Lather - 21" 718M wheels - Every option except Sun Shade
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12-31-2010, 08:09 AM	#13
pixelblue Colonel 140 Rep 2,234 Posts Drives: the silver bullet Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: northern virginia iTrader: (2) Garage List 2010 135i [8.90]	I am planning on converting to a light weight single mass fly wheel when it's time to replace the clutch. Dinan and turner offer solutions. Shaving 12 lbs in weight with obvious benefits to throttle response __________________ "I would quote everything pixelblue said, but you've already read it. Take it from someone who's put the 1 through its paces"
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12-31-2010, 10:05 AM	#14
onefastman Major General 159 Rep 5,689 Posts Drives: 2009 135i 2011 e92m dct Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Earth iTrader: (15)	Why not clutch masters? __________________ Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(1addicts.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise.
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12-31-2010, 10:28 AM	#16
pixelblue Colonel 140 Rep 2,234 Posts Drives: the silver bullet Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: northern virginia iTrader: (2) Garage List 2010 135i [8.90]	I don't think clutch masters offer a fly wheel for our car but would consider using their clutch assembly. have to look into spec one. here is the link for turners fly wheel http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...ID=520-200-240 __________________ "I would quote everything pixelblue said, but you've already read it. Take it from someone who's put the 1 through its paces"
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12-31-2010, 10:33 AM	#17
pixelblue Colonel 140 Rep 2,234 Posts Drives: the silver bullet Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: northern virginia iTrader: (2) Garage List 2010 135i [8.90]	so spec one is $100 cheaper than turners but weights 2 lbs more. always good to have options __________________ "I would quote everything pixelblue said, but you've already read it. Take it from someone who's put the 1 through its paces"
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12-31-2010, 11:13 AM	#19
pixelblue Colonel 140 Rep 2,234 Posts Drives: the silver bullet Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: northern virginia iTrader: (2) Garage List 2010 135i [8.90]	oops, I didn't notice it was only for N51/52. well in that case the choices are spec one which weighs in at 14 lbs and cost $520 and dinans which is ridiculously expensive at $2k and weighs in at 21.5 lbs vs 24 lbs for stock __________________ "I would quote everything pixelblue said, but you've already read it. Take it from someone who's put the 1 through its paces"
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12-31-2010, 11:49 AM	#20
onefastman Major General 159 Rep 5,689 Posts Drives: 2009 135i 2011 e92m dct Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Earth iTrader: (15)	I wouldnt use spec, their stuff has had so many failures. __________________ Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(1addicts.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise.
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12-31-2010, 11:52 AM	#21
onefastman Major General 159 Rep 5,689 Posts Drives: 2009 135i 2011 e92m dct Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Earth iTrader: (15)	Also I just looked and clutchmasters.com does sell fly wheels for the 135i both as a kit and seperate. __________________ Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(1addicts.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise.
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12-31-2010, 12:09 PM	#22
pixelblue Colonel 140 Rep 2,234 Posts Drives: the silver bullet Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: northern virginia iTrader: (2) Garage List 2010 135i [8.90]	^ it seems they do. $895 but doesn't say how much it weighs. have to look into the specs __________________ "I would quote everything pixelblue said, but you've already read it. Take it from someone who's put the 1 through its paces"
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