premium sound system - opinions

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by Technic

The USB/iPod adapter and the audio system upgrade are two separate and individual options in the 1 Series. One is not included/required with the other.

Now, if you got the MY2009 iDrive Navigation system then you do have an USB port in the glovebox that will allow you to download music from your flashdrive into the HDD. This particular USB port will not allow to play music directly from the flashdrive, it is only for up/downloading music/map data.

I gotcha.. Thanks.. Might have been 'nice' for the 800 some odd dollars they charge for the Premium HI Fi Upgrade had they given us a usb option with it, and not required us to buy the ipod/usb option as well.. But such is life. Thanks again for clarifying.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by boostm3

I gotcha.. Thanks.. Might have been 'nice' for the 800 some odd dollars they charge for the Premium HI Fi Upgrade had they given us a usb option with it, and not required us to buy the ipod/usb option as well.. But such is life. Thanks again for clarifying.

For that you need to step up to a X6, 6- or a 7-Series, all of which include the USB/iPod adapter in their Premium System option. Or just get a 5-Series and the USB/iPod adapter is standard...

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by Technic

For that you need to step up to a X6, 6- or a 7-Series, all of which include the USB/iPod adapter in their Premium System option. Or just get a 5-Series and the USB/iPod adapter is standard...

Tech, one more question.. Under standard features description of the stock, unupdated audio, bmwusa says,

"Audio system
Anti-theft AM/FM stereo CD/MP3 player audio system with Radio Data System (RDS), Auto-Store and 3-channel FM diversity antenna Auxiliary audio input for portable music players located in the center armrest"

What kind of input is this in the center armrest? Im assuming its NOT a usb port, otherwise, all of this discussion weve been having would be rendered kind of meaningless!

[Technic]

Originally Posted by boostm3

Tech, one more question.. Under standard features description of the stock, unupdated audio, bmwusa says,

"Audio system
Anti-theft AM/FM stereo CD/MP3 player audio system with Radio Data System (RDS), Auto-Store and 3-channel FM diversity antenna Auxiliary audio input for portable music players located in the center armrest"

What kind of input is this in the center armrest? Im assuming its NOT a usb port, otherwise, all of this discussion weve been having would be rendered kind of meaningless!

That's the 3.5mm socket for the headphone output jack in your iPod/MP3 player, so you can listen to your device thru the car audio system speakers intead...



... no fancy displays or track control of the music device thru the OEM system, only volume. Sound quality is so-so thru this port.

[JimD]

I use a similar 3.5mm aux input in my truck to plan mp3s stored on my Garmin Nuvi 350 GPS. I plan to do the same thing, probably upgrading to a Garmin Nuvi 760 GPS in my 128i. Both GPSs use SD cards to store MP3 files (or pictures) which are even more compact than flash drives. I'm sure there are better setups but this is an easy and inexpensive way to have a lot of music available. I have 10 or more CDs ripped at highest quality on my nuvi and a 2 gB SD card. And even the small storage areas on the 1 will hold a lot of SD cards. The GPS shows you the artists, album, category information and supports HU3 playlists. I am not terribly discriminating but it sounds pretty good in my truck and I'm confident will sound better in my BMW (better sterio and quieter car).

Jim

[boostm3]

Yea, those 3.5mm jacks are handy to attach mp3 players to.. However, I prefer to use usb flashdrives because there's no battery factor.. Plus, I can leave the flashdrive permanently connected in the car to the usb port as I do now with my kenwood excelon system installed in my M3, and save the mp3 player from doing car/gym double duty. $400 does seem like a lot for a usb port though!

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by HondaGoneRogue

I have the Logic7 system. My car is US spec.

No you don't.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by sparoz

The 1 series has a logic 7 simulation as it doesnt' have central speakers like the 3er.

Yes, but it's not the Logic 7, and it doesn't sound like the L7.
I may have opted to pay the $900 for the L7, but the premium doesn't sound like it, so I didn't.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Technic

The only good source is the source...

Yes, that's a good semi-technical document/explanation of the systems parts and function.

It seems we are talking past each other. It's not that confusing or complicated, really.
I am in the US, and speaking of the US spec options. I am quite aware of what the different names used and systems offered outside the US.
In the US market, we do NOT get the 3 systems mentioned for the 1 series. We get the base system (which is the "hi-fi" listed in the PDF), and we get the Premium Hi-Fi (which is listed as the "top hi-fi" in the PDF).

The confusion comes in when people refer to systems not offered in the US.
If we were to go by the PDF naming method, then both systems can be called "hi-fi". It's actually easier to just say base system and premium, or premium hi-fi, as that is what they are called by the source, which is BMW's US website.

I know this isn't as confusing as some are trying to make it.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by GtiGyver

Lets be crystal clear here.

The one series has 3 system options for sound.

Stereo, Hifi, Top-Hifi.
What the brochure calls them is irrelevant. The technical documentation from BMW calls it the above.
In North America we get the Hifi by default with no option for the cheaper "stereo".
The only option is the Top-Hifi which DOES have logic 7 processing where the (missing) center channel is simply mapped to the front left/right speakers.

These two systems have the same number of speakers, and both are amplified.
However, they have completely different hardware with the exception of the head unit which is the same on all systems (non-idrive).
The speakers incl. tweeters and amp are different and are connected differently.

If you want to stay stock, then go top-hifi or logic7 or HK or whatever you want to call it. If you plan on upgrading, do not get that system, it'll give you even worse results than if you go with standard hifi.

The "sale brochure" and what BMW names the systems is not irrelevant at all. Actually, BMW put out the PDF, the US website, and the sales brochure. There are names given to identify the product. Calling the product what it is, is relevant.

To be very clear, the L7 in the 3 series is NOT the "premium hi-fi" in the 1 series. The premium doesn't use the same amp, it doesn't have the same speaker arrangement, doesn't have the same channels, and doesn't even product the same volume level. More importantly, the systems sound different, because they are different.
Are they similar? In some ways. But, they are not the same.

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by RPM90

The "sale brochure" and what BMW names the systems is not irrelevant at all. Actually, BMW put out the PDF, the US website, and the sales brochure. There are names given to identify the product. Calling the product what it is, is relevant.

To be very clear, the L7 in the 3 series is NOT the "premium hi-fi" in the 1 series. The premium doesn't use the same amp, it doesn't have the same speaker arrangement, doesn't have the same channels, and doesn't even product the same volume level. More importantly, the systems sound different, because they are different.
Are they similar? In some ways. But, they are not the same.

What are the difs between the hi fi which is apparently the stock system in the USA, and the TOP Hi Fi, or Premium Hi Fi systems offered as our only upgrade system? I know that twin subs come with the Premium HI FI system, but what about the other speakers. Are they shared with USA stock? Amp? Do they sound way different, a little different or what? etc.. thanks.

[sparoz]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Yes, that's a good semi-technical document/explanation of the systems parts and function.

It seems we are talking past each other. It's not that confusing or complicated, really.
I am in the US, and speaking of the US spec options. I am quite aware of what the different names used and systems offered outside the US.
In the US market, we do NOT get the 3 systems mentioned for the 1 series. We get the base system (which is the "hi-fi" listed in the PDF), and we get the Premium Hi-Fi (which is listed as the "top hi-fi" in the PDF).

The confusion comes in when people refer to systems not offered in the US.
If we were to go by the PDF naming method, then both systems can be called "hi-fi". It's actually easier to just say base system and premium, or premium hi-fi, as that is what they are called by the source, which is BMW's US website.

I know this isn't as confusing as some are trying to make it.

If the US base = hifi, and premium = top hi-fi, then $900 is a bit steep. It cost $900 AUD to go from hifi to top hifi.

[GtiGyver]

I never said that the 3 series and the 1 series share any parts what-so-ever, that said, it is true that nowhere in any of the documentation that comes with the car, or even the brochures do they speak of Harmon Kardon, or Logic 7 but rather this vague DSP.

It is agreed however that both the base hifi and premium hifi (the only two options available in NA) have 10 speakers, of which two are subs under the drivers/pass seats.
The 4 mids are 100mm (~4"), the 2 subs are 200mm (~8") plus 4 tweeters. This is true for both systems, however the two systems share none of the parts whatsoever. Different speakers, subs and tweeters to handle the different power output of the different amps.

Originally Posted by RPM90

The "sale brochure" and what BMW names the systems is not irrelevant at all. Actually, BMW put out the PDF, the US website, and the sales brochure. There are names given to identify the product. Calling the product what it is, is relevant.

To be very clear, the L7 in the 3 series is NOT the "premium hi-fi" in the 1 series. The premium doesn't use the same amp, it doesn't have the same speaker arrangement, doesn't have the same channels, and doesn't even product the same volume level. More importantly, the systems sound different, because they are different.
Are they similar? In some ways. But, they are not the same.

[135iUSN]

wow - much discussion (:

[Technic]

Originally Posted by boostm3

What are the difs between the hi fi which is apparently the stock system in the USA, and the TOP Hi Fi, or Premium Hi Fi systems offered as our only upgrade system? I know that twin subs come with the Premium HI FI system, but what about the other speakers. Are they shared with USA stock? Amp? Do they sound way different, a little different or what? etc.. thanks.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163804

[Technic]

Originally Posted by GtiGyver

I never said that the 3 series and the 1 series share any parts what-so-ever, that said, it is true that nowhere in any of the documentation that comes with the car, or even the brochures do they speak of Harmon Kardon, or Logic 7 but rather this vague DSP.

Both the OEM Professional HU and the iDrive screens with Top HiFi systems in the 1 Series show you that there is in fact Logic7 processing:

OEM HU: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...&postcount=108

iDrive: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=25

[GtiGyver]

So the PDF is correct in saying that the premium system aka top-hifi is a Harmon Kardon Logic7 system. Not the same as the one used in the 3 series, agreed, but that doesn't matter as that was not part of the initial argument.

RPM90, you seem to be countering an argument I never made. My point always was that the N/A market gets the two higher end options of the 3 available to Europe.
The options here all have the same sized and same number (10) of speakers, but different part numbers since the premium system has a more powerful amp.

[135iUSN]

has anyone purchased the retro fit for the HKL7?

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by GtiGyver

So the PDF is correct in saying that the premium system aka top-hifi is a Harmon Kardon Logic7 system. Not the same as the one used in the 3 series, agreed, but that doesn't matter as that was not part of the initial argument.

RPM90, you seem to be countering an argument I never made. My point always was that the N/A market gets the two higher end options of the 3 available to Europe.
The options here all have the same sized and same number (10) of speakers, but different part numbers since the premium system has a more powerful amp.

Actually, I wasn't arguing or countering.

I am simply trying to keep things clear.

The ONLY thing I have said is that the "logic 7 system" in the 3 series, known as the "logic 7" audio system, is NOT the "premium hi-fi" system of the 1 series. That's it.

Some have said that they do have the "logic 7 system". That just creates confusion as the 1 series does not have a system known as the "logic 7" as an option.

Having a certain processor in your audio system doesn't change what the system is called, and thus known by.
The actual "logic 7" system of the 3 sereis is different as it has more channels, more speakers, different amp, etc...
Even according to that PDF, the Logic 7 needs a minimum of 7 channels, and the 1 series premium setup doesn't have that, it only has 6, thus it has to "simulate" what the L7 would do if it had the proper channels.
There is enough significant difference.

The comment you just made above, about the number of speaker either of the 2 US 1 series systems have, has never been contested or argued by me.

I digress. Here are some interesting things about the different systems:

It is interesting to note, that even though the premium system uses a digital setup and more powerful amp, the overall spl capability, compard to the base system, is rated as the same, 104db. The 3 series L7 system is capable of 110db spl overall, compared to 104db for both 1 series systems.
I'd like to take my db meter to both the standard audio setup and the premium, and play the same music and test tones to check this out.

A most interesting thing here is that the base system is rated at 104db spl and has 180watts of power. Now, I don't know if that is rms or peak, most I've seen say it's "peak".
The premium system is also rated at 104db spl, but it has 380watts of power. That's over double the power.
The premium system should at least be rated at 107db due to the doubling of the power.

Of course there are other factors at play too, such as the frequency response differences, the base is rated for
40hz to 20khz, and the premium and L7 are rated for 30hz-20khz.

The other thing the PDF shows is that OEM subs are not exactly the same either, as the base systems subs are listed at 2 ohm, while the premium system subs are listed as 4 ohm.
If true, then that could account for why the base audio system's lower power can still produce the same SPL. The lower power is also driving a lower resistance load, 2ohms, instead of 4ohms. That, in effect will let the 2ohm play about as loud as the higher power amp driving a higher resistance load (the 4ohm of the premium setup).

Now, the L7 in the 3 series rates at 420watts, which is only 40 total watts more than the 1 series premium system, yet is rated at a 110db spl overall capability compared to the 1 series premium setup. That's 6db more for the 3 series L7! Or, a magnitude of 4X, using only 40 more total watts, and 3 more speakers/drivers, those are 3 more 4" mids. More drivers will also drive up the SPL.

As reference, using the same speakers, to get a 6db rise from a system producing 104db with 380watts, you would need a total of 380 X 4 or 1520watts!
Or, you can increase spl by 3db by doubling the number of speakers.
Or, the 3 series L7 system speakers must have much MUCH greater driver efficiency.
Or, those numbers are just off.
But, it's probably a combination of a bit more power, more speakers, and better speaker efficiency.
That all adds up to quite a bit of difference between the 1 series premium setup and the 3 series L7 setup, and yet the up charge is about the same for either vehicle. The 1 series gets the short end of the stick on this one.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by GtiGyver

So the PDF is correct in saying that the premium system aka top-hifi is a Harmon Kardon Logic7 system. Not the same as the one used in the 3 series, agreed, but that doesn't matter as that was not part of the initial argument.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Harmon Kardon Logic7"?
Do you mean HK speakers with L7 processing?

Check this out:
http://www.lexicon.com/logic7/index.asp

[GtiGyver]

I simply mean that the speakers are made by HK, as is the Logic7 processing inside the amp.
I'm guessing the only reason they didn't call it Logic7 on the 1 series was the lack of center channel, and HK doesn't make Logic6
Still, they could have referred to it as an L7 system with a phantom center channel.

And I'm not saying you contested me on everything I said, but for some odd reason, (other) people are still not convinced of the existence of the subs in the base hifi system.

As for the 104dB, it must be a mistake, the premium system has 40% more power, how could it possibly not produce a single dB increase in sound pressure over base hifi.

Originally Posted by RPM90

I'm not sure what you mean by "Harmon Kardon Logic7"?
Do you mean HK speakers with L7 processing?

Check this out:
http://www.lexicon.com/logic7/index.asp

[JimD]

This may be a bit off-base to come back to but there is no battery issue with using a GPS with MP3 capability as a music source. The GPS is powered by the vehicle, but it's power doesn't come through the USB port. There would be a battery issue if I just used a MP3 player in the holder under the arm rest.

Jim