This is why I DIY and my wife drives a Toyota.

[desertman123]

Originally Posted by WDE82

That's not how R&D costs work.

Plus, as I said, Toyota is less innovative in general than BMW. The cost difference is a result of corporate philosophy first, not volumes. BMW doesn't target below a certain range at all, while Toyota tries to cover the entire market including Luxury with Lexus. BMW also focuses more on innovation and new technologies than Toyota while Toyota weighs strict risk management far above new technology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Toyota_Way

• Base your management decisions on a long-term philosophy, even at the expense of short-term financial goals.
• Create a continuous process flow to bring problems to the surface.
• Use "pull" systems to avoid overproduction.
• etc. etc.

[WDE82]

Originally Posted by JimVonBaden

If you say so, though you would be wrong.

Okay, when you have some auto industry experience maybe you can say I'm wrong at that point.

Originally Posted by desertman123

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Toyota_Way

• Base your management decisions on a long-term philosophy, even at the expense of short-term financial goals.
• Create a continuous process flow to bring problems to the surface.
• Use "pull" systems to avoid overproduction.
• etc. etc.

Exactly

Principle 8

Use only reliable, thoroughly tested technology that serves your people and processes.

Technology is pulled by manufacturing, not pushed to manufacturing.

[JimVonBaden]

Originally Posted by WDE82

Okay, when you have some auto industry experience maybe you can say I'm wrong at that point.



Exactly

You have no idea the industry experience or education I have.

[minirips2]

Easy, guys. let's not turn this into E90Post! Anyway, Toyotas are reliable because they're simple, and that is the reputation Toyota strives for. They are also generally about as much fun to drive as your refrigerator. The 86 being a notable exception, and if they do a new Supra and it passes muster, that would be a nice halo car for them. BMW builds it's reputation on "Ultimate Driving Machine", and assumes we will put up with a lot of complication for the privilege of driving "Ultimate". For the most part, we do just that. BMW is now straying pretty far from their roots. It's all about infotainment and features. That's what marketing surveys tell them is what people want. Our 1ers are the last of a breed, unfortunately. Spend a small fortune on maintenance or buy an appliance. Maintaining a Porsche, Audi, of Benz will cost you no less, probably more. If you want a great driving experience, it comes with a price. Just my two cents...

[WDE82]

Originally Posted by JimVonBaden

You have no idea the industry experience or education I have.

Obviously zero experience on development and manufacturing side lmao

[fast1eddy]

I get that Toyota is not as innovative or as complex as BMW but the items that keep breaking over and over again from generation to generation are not the "innovations". Take ignition coils for instance. They will fail on every known BMW on a regular basis. There is truly no reason they should do that. Same with cooling system components and fuel injectors. They rarely ever fail on Toyota's. I have no experience with other brands as I've driven BMWs for the last 20 years and my wife has driven Toyota's with the exception of a very brief and expensive year year with an E46 330i. She learned to hate BMW in that year. Great to drive but when it left her stranded at least 3 times in one year she said enough.

[JimVonBaden]

Originally Posted by WDE82

Obviously zero experience on development and manufacturing side lmao

If you say so. I am sure you always get the last word, right or not.

[gjm120]

Originally Posted by fast1eddy

I get that Toyota is not as innovative or as complex as BMW but the items that keep breaking over and over again from generation to generation are not the "innovations". Take ignition coils for instance. They will fail on every known BMW on a regular basis. There is truly no reason they should do that. Same with cooling system components and fuel injectors. They rarely ever fail on Toyota's. I have no experience with other brands as I've driven BMWs for the last 20 years and my wife has driven Toyota's with the exception of a very brief and expensive year year with an E46 330i. She learned to hate BMW in that year. Great to drive but when it left her stranded at least 3 times in one year she said enough.

Don't forget the biodegradable gasket materials used.

[WDE82]

Originally Posted by JimVonBaden

If you say so. I am sure you always get the last word, right or not.

If you did you'd say something correct.

[KNS]

Originally Posted by fast1eddy

I get that Toyota is not as innovative or as complex as BMW but the items that keep breaking over and over again from generation to generation are not the "innovations". Take ignition coils for instance. They will fail on every known BMW on a regular basis. There is truly no reason they should do that. Same with cooling system components and fuel injectors. They rarely ever fail on Toyota's. I have no experience with other brands as I've driven BMWs for the last 20 years and my wife has driven Toyota's with the exception of a very brief and expensive year year with an E46 330i. She learned to hate BMW in that year. Great to drive but when it left her stranded at least 3 times in one year she said enough.

In general I agree with you about BMW vs Toyota reliability, no reason BMW should not be able to produce a dependable water pump, etc.

The crazy thing though is a few good ones slip through the cracks. My E46 325i (purchased new) is a freak. At 219,000 miles it is the most reliable car I have ever owned. Has never left me stranded, never a check engine light (an SES light once), still has the original coils, injectors, alternator, Vanos untouched... I could go on. Every single light bulb is still original.

I have done 98% of all the maintenance so I think that helps (keep it out the dealer’s hands).

I like the 128 but I don’t think the quality is the same. We’ll see...

[TridenTBoy]

Idk wtf you guys smoking. BMW reliability is terrible and so is the cost.

There's a reason that the god damn Prius is ridiculously cheap to maintain. It's engineered to last AND not cost a ton of money. Yes, the batteries get less effective but who cares. Your engine gets less effective too...

I am scared at the thought of owning this car past 100k. It's already been a nightmare from 35-50k. Jeebus.

Can't imagine if I did a compression and leakdown test. D:

[minirips2]

Originally Posted by TridenTBoy

Idk wtf you guys smoking. BMW reliability is terrible and so is the cost.

There's a reason that the god damn Prius is ridiculously cheap to maintain. It's engineered to last AND not cost a ton of money. Yes, the batteries get less effective but who cares. Your engine gets less effective too...

I am scared at the thought of owning this car past 100k. It's already been a nightmare from 35-50k. Jeebus.

Can't imagine if I did a compression and leakdown test. D:

200,000 miles on my '09 Prius, and my battery pack is original. I probably should not have said that! Capacity is not noticeably less than new, although it might be since over time you get used to things. It is the most reliable car I have ever owned, by a long shot. Oil changes, filters,
front brakes at 165,000 miles (not a typo), wheel bearings also at 165k and new struts. That's it. With that said, it is also one of the worst driving cars I've ever owned. ABS cuts virtually all brakes over stutter bumps, seats are rock hard with no lateral support, and 0-60 times you can measure with a sundial. In the winter, I'm lucky to get eight gallons into that stupid bladder tank. Thank goodness my kids are driving it now.
Driving the 128i is pure pleasure. I don't want or need the turbo. I realize this car will eat my dinner in maintenance costs, but it's a worthwhile trade-off to me. So far, anyway! (knocks on wood)

[WDE82]

Originally Posted by minirips2

200,000 miles on my '09 Prius, and my battery pack is original. I probably should not have said that! Capacity is not noticeably less than new, although it might be since over time you get used to things. It is the most reliable car I have ever owned, by a long shot. Oil changes, filters,
front brakes at 165,000 miles (not a typo), wheel bearings also at 165k and new struts. That's it. With that said, it is also one of the worst driving cars I've ever owned. ABS cuts virtually all brakes over stutter bumps, seats are rock hard with no lateral support, and 0-60 times you can measure with a sundial. In the winter, I'm lucky to get eight gallons into that stupid bladder tank. Thank goodness my kids are driving it now.
Driving the 128i is pure pleasure. I don't want or need the turbo. I realize this car will eat my dinner in maintenance costs, but it's a worthwhile trade-off to me. So far, anyway! (knocks on wood)

I think the 128 is pretty reliable as BMWs go.

[chris_flies]

Originally Posted by WDE82

I think the 128 is pretty reliable as BMWs go.

170k miles, and everything feels track-worthy...

I think I've said this before...my car has lots of miles.

[captain slowly]

Originally Posted by chris_flies

170k miles, and everything feels track-worthy...

I think I've said this before...my car has lots of miles.

Yes, you have. Lots of times. You wear it like a badge of honor, but you've only had the car for 10k. You really don't know what was/wasn't replaced in the previous 160k. Realistically, you can keep a car on the road for as long as you wish if you keep replacing what brakes. Again, historically, BMW has NEVER been focused on reliability, per se. Their thing has always been the way the car drives, and until recently they were the best in the business. Currently, outside the M cars, everything they make is cheap feeling expensive junk, and unreliable at that.

[chris_flies]

Originally Posted by captain slowly

Yes, you have. Lots of times. You wear it like a badge of honor, but you've only had the car for 10k. You really don't know what was/wasn't replaced in the previous 160k. Realistically, you can keep a car on the road for as long as you wish if you keep replacing what brakes. Again, historically, BMW has NEVER been focused on reliability, per se. Their thing has always been the way the car drives, and until recently they were the best in the business. Currently, outside the M cars, everything they make is cheap feeling expensive junk, and unreliable at that.

Agreed, BMWs are for driving and then fixing! And yes, my time with my car is pretty minimal, but it's still (just about) problem free. I will say this, it has held up extremely well, compared to my dad's former '98 E39 540i, it seems a much more reliable car than that. And, at least for me, the build quality seems to be just a notch above the 540i.

[captain slowly]

Originally Posted by chris_flies

Agreed, BMWs are for driving and then fixing! And yes, my time with my car is pretty minimal, but it's still (just about) problem free. I will say this, it has held up extremely well, compared to my dad's former '98 E39 540i, it seems a much more reliable car than that. And, at least for me, the build quality seems to be just a notch above the 540i.

At the risk of repeating myself, you really don't know how well it has held up, as you have no records for the first 160k miles. Anyway, I'm done trying to reason with you.

[chris_flies]

Originally Posted by captain slowly

At the risk of repeating myself, you really don't know how well it has held up, as you have no records for the first 160k miles. Anyway, I'm done trying to reason with you.

That's probably a good idea.

[rowsdower]

Lots of tension on this forum lately. Can't wait for the summer to show up so you will all go for a drive and remember why we like these cars so much!

[fast1eddy]

Originally Posted by rowsdower

Lots of tension on this forum lately. Can't wait for the summer to show up so you will all go for a drive and remember why we like these cars so much!

Can't wait to get the 1 back on the road. In the mean time I'm driving and fixing my X3. Replaced a bad coil on the weekend and today I got another check engine light. Drive and fix. The BMW life.