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[Eddy@ApexWheels]

Russ,

I apologize for being unable to reply sooner. Although David has not experienced these kinds of issues, I have come across variations of these problems before as I have much more 1 series experience.

I will begin by saying your issues are minor, solvable, and we'll help you do so.

The 1 series fitment is inherently an extremely tight fitment no matter what. It's the most difficult BMW fitment there is. If you consider the tire size you're running and ignore all wheel width and offset specs, you can see that any movement inward or outward can quickly have consequences, so fine tuning offset becomes necessary as you go wide. The offsets we have selected work with a lot of tires in those sizes, and sadly we cannot test them with every single brand/model of the same size. From the pictures I can see those P-zero tires run extremely wide (balloon shape), which causes more fitment issues vs. other available tires. We don't ever use the P-zero tires in our testing, as there are other performance tires we like more, and I don't believe we recommend them to customers for purchase either due to our lack of use/experience with them. I apologize if you were directly recommended that brand/model tire by one of our staff. I'm not sure where the wheels were purchased from as they appear to be powder coated gloss black. We should have steered you towards another tire brand/model that fit easier if you spoke with us, but I can't speak on behalf of all our staff.

That being said, the rear should not be a concern. The tire is slightly touching the foam liner in the rear and this will have no drivability impact. Those liners are not precisely made or mounted, and it makes sense that on one side you don't have the issue and on the other side you do. Slight variations in alignment and even the molded shape of that liner will allow for that 1mm of contact/rubbing, as they aren't usually a precise fit.

The rear suspension has a lot of droop when in the air and the suspension goes aggressively towards positive camber when hanging. This will result in even more contact with the liner when servicing the car as the suspension moves the tire in toward the rear subframe and body. This again has no impact on actual use. We just did some testing on the M235i yesterday (with the 1 series fitment) and it's exactly the same. A touch of contact at full droop (I can spin the tire but there is some added friction with the 265/35/18 NT-05's used for testing), but everything is fine when driving. I know you expected a 100% clean fit, but please consider the touching the cheap foam is part of the cost of having a wide fitment. The cost of the performance is essentially a rub mark which will self clearance itself. The alternative is a narrow tire fitment, slow car.

Your front strut tube contact is due to the shape of the tire you're using. It's significantly meatier on the sides vs. most other brands, and there was no way for you to know that when picking them. A 3-5mm spacer is what you would want up front to clear that strut. We will happy send you spacers or compensate you for the cost of spacers if you want to source them more locally to you. This will push your setup further out which will create a new fender side issue in your case due to the tires you are running. You did pull your pins but you also added M3 control arms, and those arms push out the bottom of the suspension. That adds negative camber, but doesn't add more fender clearance.

I see that you're considering Dinan plates, but I would highly recommend Ground Control Street plates. Their street plates are not full metal to metal, and have a bushing at the top, but the plate is still adjustable and can work with OEM style springs. I run them on my 100% daily driven 335d with MCS coilovers and they ride fantastic, are silent, and aren't expensive. Dinan plates will not get you to an ideal camber setting, are unadjustable, add stack height, and are expensive for what they are. (please note: we don't sell either of these plates and this is a personal referral to what I know works well for other 1 series owners and for myself) With camber plates you can confidently run the 5mm spacer and clear the fender. If you have all those other suspension mods, but you don't have a healthy amount of negative camber up front (1.5-1.7 degrees on a street car), you'd be doing the other modifications a disservice.

The rubbing on the oil cooler duct is a combination of a few things. 235/40/18 tires are taller than stock, so when you have that size along with a very meaty sidewall, you can get very light contact on the duct grill that sticks out into the fender well. That too will self-clearance itself, and really should only happen at lock. The M3 control arms that push out the bottom of the suspension can also get the tire that much closer to contacting the plastic, as every millimeter counts. The real cure here is running our preferred/recommended tire size in combination with camber plates. Camber plates are required, but the absolute best setup on the car is a 245/35/18 front tire. That tire is the correct overall diameter, and even though it's wider, it doesn't "reach out" as far as the 235 size does towards the oil cooler. So you don't need to down grade your tire width, you can actually upgrade your tire width, but downgrade your tire diameter. Sadly not ever tire model/size is available in 245/35/18 and you'll want about 1.5 degrees to fit them. This slight contact here is not worth getting new tires, and in many cases we've found that contact is also caused by plastic liners that are out of shape or not installed perfectly. Having removed liners many times in testing, we've installed them wrong/loose so it may be worth checking to see if everything is as tight and in position as possible.

In summary, the rear should not be an issue. The front would significantly benefit from real camber plates, a spacer, and in the future a 245/35/18 tire. Let us know what sized spacer you would like and we'll get you taken care of.

Thank you,

Eddy P

[TheRuss]

Thanks for the comprehensive answer Eddy, I appreciate it. I've sourced 5mm spacers here, so if you'll compensate me for them that'd be ideal. I've gone for a set of 4, as there appears to be room to fit 5mm in the rear and hopefully that'll stop the liners rubbing. I also undid the plastic nuts on the liner and pushed it inwards as far as I could, though it barely moved. Every little helps though, as you say.

As for the front, thanks for the advice regarding the camber plates. For me, increased height at the front isn't necessarily a negative. I don't need the slammed look and the front of my car sits lower than the rear anyway, so quarter of an inch higher at the front wouldn't upset me. If anything it'd give me extra clearance to the arch and to the ground (too many speed bumps around here). Who would you recommend sourcing the camber plates from?

As for the tyres, I'd have loved to get Michelin PSS, but they don't seem to do them here in the UK for some reason. The sizes quoted aren't even shown on Michelin's own website for PSS. Only Pilot Sport 3's are available in those sizes here. Perhaps they are manufactured in the US or something, so only you get them? Unfortunately, I was advised that the Pirellis were a good tyre for being the quoted size and not oversize by another forum member! but clearly that info was wrong. Had I known, I'd have sourced a different tyre.

So you don't think that camber plates + M3 lower control arms + alignment pins removed will add too much camber for the road? I don't want to shred my tyres.

Thanks again.

Russell

[Eddy@ApexWheels]

Russell,

Camber plates are fully adjustable, you could even set them to zero degrees. That's their benefit, you can set them to just negative enough to clear your exact setup. I would recommend grabbing them through Bimmerworld or directly from Ground Control.

I daily with 1.5- on PSS and I've put 20K miles on the tires with nothing to worry about. It's toe that really wears the tire when you have camber, so mine is set to zero. It's a very common alignment setup for guys who dual duty their cars on the street and track.

Sorry availability of the 245/35's are difficult there in the UK, that's an ideal size.

I'll have David contact you to compensate you for the spacers you needed.

Thanks for your support.

[TheRuss]

Hi Eddy, my concern is that I might already have around -1.5 degrees of camber on the front from the M3 arms and alignment pin removal. As such, adding any more camber is going to mean an even higher value - will that still be suitable for daily driving duties without shredding the tyres? Also, did you notice much added harshness from the camber plates? That's as the draw of the Dinans - the stock bushing/mount.

I don't think our roads over here are as good as yours. They'll avoid fixing potholes in the same road that they're installing speedbumps... Argh!

Also, I was considering fender rolling. Would that not be necessary then if I get camber plates? And should I test fit the 5mm spacers this weekend, or not even bother until the camber plates are in? I'm hoping the rears will clear ok with the spacer and no roll, but we'll see.

[TheRuss]

Hi Eddy, after reading up about the GC camber plates I think I'd rather avoid those. There's plenty of accounts of them rattling and that'd drive me absolutely mad. I just don't need that kinda hassle right now. If I go for camber plates it'll be the Dinans, as they seem the most likely ones to be silent and they retain the stock rubber shock mounts to help smooth out the poor roads we have here. if that means my fenders will need rolling as well, then so be it. Surely the Dinan plates + my other parts should allow for about -2 degrees of camber though? (Or so I've read) so would that be enough? Also they're a maintenance free fitment, unlike the adjustable ones, and I'm not bothered about the stack height increasing as the car's front could do with being a bit higher anyway, plus that'll add clearance to the arch.

[TheRuss]

Ok, so I test fitted the 5mm spacers this weekend. I didn't want to risk driving it though, as the front wheels do stick out quite a bit, so I'm getting the arches rolled this weekend. Not sure if I'll still need camber plates and if the Dinan ones will give enough camber? Here's photos:

Front strut gap now.

Rear gap to arch liner now (taken from underneath, camera pointing upwards):


Front wheel:







Rear wheel:





Also, is it ok/normal for the spacer to be slightly smaller than the mounting surface of the wheel?

[135iam]

Thats more spacer than needed, but that can be fixed with a more aggressive fender roll/pull

[TheRuss]

You reckon? Sure, there's a nice gap when static, but what about when driving hard? The tyre will deform and there's bound to be some movement in the components as well. I'd rather return 2 of the spacers (I only test fitted one side just in case I needed to return two, although they said I could return all of them if I didn't actually drive on them) if I could get away with 3mm and a less aggressive roll...

[135iam]

Originally Posted by TheRuss

You reckon? Sure, there's a nice gap when static, but what about when driving hard? The tyre will deform and there's bound to be some movement in the components as well. I'd rather return 2 of the spacers (I only test fitted one side just in case I needed to return two, although they said I could return all of them if I didn't actually drive on them) if I could get away with 3mm and a less aggressive roll...

Yes the tire will flex, but the strut and hub are fixed, if there is movement between them something is wrong.

Its hard to tell how much fender work may/may not be needed until you adjust in more negative camber.

I am confident I could bolt your front wheel/tire combo on my car with a 3mm spacer and be fine. (I have -2.5 front camber, zero toe, no fender work, and similar ride height to yours)

Either sized spacer will work, but the smaller the spacer the less neg camber is needed.

[TheRuss]

Sure, the hub and strut are fixed, but wouldn't there still be a small amount of flex in hard cornering etc? With the full weight of the car pushing sideways against the tyre I'd have thought maybe it might move slightly, even if we're talking 1mm or less.

So you think I may be able to get away with a 3mm spacer up there?

What about the rear? The rears still hit the arch liner even with the 5mm spacer when the rear is jacked up off the ground. However, they now at least turn when I jack the car up and try to spin them. Also, from the photos I guess I'll still need the rear fenders rolled, as the lip on them is wider than up front? Or should I be able to get away with no roll there either?

What camber plates are you using?

[135iam]

Originally Posted by TheRuss

Sure, the hub and strut are fixed, but wouldn't there still be a small amount of flex in hard cornering etc? With the full weight of the car pushing sideways against the tyre I'd have thought maybe it might move slightly, even if we're talking 1mm or less.

So you think I may be able to get away with a 3mm spacer up there?

What about the rear? The rears still hit the arch liner even with the 5mm spacer when the rear is jacked up off the ground. However, they now at least turn when I jack the car up and try to spin them. Also, from the photos I guess I'll still need the rear fenders rolled, as the lip on them is wider than up front? Or should I be able to get away with no roll there either?

What camber plates are you using?

I use the M3 front arms along with Dinan camber plates for a total of -2.5 camber, my caster is set at 7.2 degrees(maybe 7.4), with zero toe.

The tire flex is the greatest single concern when talking about tire to strut contact. The other flex that would need to occur for the tire to become closer to the strut would involve flex in the wheel, wheel bearing, hub, or the strut housing itself. In a good working car these should all be so slight they are not a concern.

As far as the rear end is concerned, I would not worry about contact when the suspension is hanging at full droop.(lots of setups do this). Its at ride height and upon suspension compression that matters.
The rear suspension gains negative camber as the suspension is compressed. To see how much or little fender rolling you need do the following.
1. install drivers side rear wheel with spacers and put the car on the ground
2. go to the other side of the car and lift the front jacking point high up. (If you can have someone else lift while you watch the other side that would be ideal). This will severely compress the drivers rear suspension and show you where and how bad its gonna rub.

Make sense?

[TheRuss]

Yeah, I gotcha. So you think I could get away with a 3mm spacer up front? I still have two of the 5mm spacers unopened, so can easily return them if a 3mm is a better idea.

Likewise for the rear, if 3mm would be better I could return the ones I've opened even, as I just used them to test fit, which the vendor confirmed would be OK.

I think I'll probably need to roll the fenders anyway to ensure there's no rub. Or are you thinking that 3mm spacers and Dinan plates would eliminate the need for fender rolling? I already have the M3 arms and have knocked out the camber pins, so I'd only be gaining negative camber from the plates. (And I think the Dinan plates only add a small amount, right?)

[135iam]

With Dinan plates, m3 arms, and your front ride height you can get between -2.4 and -2.8 or so camber. Either sized spacers should work there with no fender work. I prefer 3mm.

For the rear I would like to see one side compressed. I have the same rear wheels and tire sizes (but 1.25" lower ride height and slightly narrower Bridgestone S04 tires)
I have 3mm spacers and could easily swap to larger 275/35 tires or maybe 285/30's with a fender roll.

I''m not sure how less rear neg camber from your increased ride height will impact rubbing without seeing it compressed.

[TheRuss]

Ok thanks. Hopefully I can try this at the weekend. For now I'll swap one set of the spacers, or do you think I ought to fit 3mm all round?

I'll also look at ordering the Dinan plates.

[CL 19]

Definitely order Dinan camber plates so you can get more negative cambers up front. Your tires look meatier than my RE-11 that I'm running on 8.5x18 et38 and 9.5x18 et62. I run 225 up front and 265 rear. It was rubbing on the front due to aggressive setup, so Dinan plates is the way to go. Now I'm running about -1.5 camber all around and I'm on stock sport suspension. No rub whatsoever after the plate was installed.

[Pothole]

Dude, you call that rubbing? It will solve itself. Its only a mudguard. Easily replaced, and cheap to do so.

[josemh23]

I have vrm wheels , 18 x 9.5 45offset, the front wheel is rubing with the strut.. Every time it give the wheels a full turn I hear the noise. A mechanic told me a spacer is the simplest solution. How could only a 3mm spacer avoid this? Any other alternative? Suspension is m sport oem

[135iam]

Originally Posted by josemh23

I have vrm wheels , 18 x 9.5 45offset, the front wheel is rubing with the strut.. Every time it give the wheels a full turn I hear the noise. A mechanic told me a spacer is the simplest solution. How could only a 3mm spacer avoid this? Any other alternative? Suspension is m sport oem

I hope you ment 18x8.5 in the front. What sized tires? what is your alignment?

All those determine what you need to do

[josemh23]

Upps , I guess. Tire size 225/40 r18. Alignment I'm lost with that one.. I took it to a alignment shop I don't know the specs..I'm not too mechanically inclined or skilled

[CL 19]

Originally Posted by josemh23

Upps , I guess. Tire size 225/40 r18. Alignment I'm lost with that one.. I took it to a alignment shop I don't know the specs..I'm not too mechanically inclined or skilled

What tires are you running? Et45 with meaty tires will most likely rub the strut, so you will be better by 3mm or 5mm spacer, that's why I went to et38 and put -1.5 degree camber. My setup clears both strut and outer fender.

[josemh23]

I contacted vrm wheels and they said it's not suppose to rub. The mechanic did not find anything bended, but I'm
Not crazy, it was not making that noise before !