Alignment on 128i with Rebuilt Title

[ndfan]

I was looking at a 128i that earned a salvage title after the previous owner hit road debris that caused damage to the undercarriage. From what I gathered, the damage included a cut fuel (and possibly other) lines and a hole in the underside, though it's unclear if the hole was in one of the plastic removable panels or the floorpan itself. The current owner (a dealer) said these items were fixed and the car now has a rebuilt title.

Before paying $500+ for a PPI and chassis inspection at a local BMW body shop, I asked the dealer to have the car in for an alignment, as I've heard that a car cannot be aligned unless its chassis is sufficiently straight. The alignment shop produced a standard form I've seen before, but at the bottom it stated:
"one or more values are not within specification. tire wear, handling and safety problems may result."

I emailed the form to the BMW service writer who I planned to do the PPI, and he said the alignment didn't seem too far off, despite the disclaimer I pasted above. Should I run away from this car?

If it helps, I could post the alignment document though i probably should remove the identifying information first, which would be a pain. Maybe I could just type out the values. Thoughts?

Please let me know what you think. Thanks in advance!

[ianc]

Run, unless it's ridiculously, laughably cheap...

ianc

[desertman123]

Originally Posted by ndfan

I was looking at a 128i that earned a salvage title

No.

[ndfan]

Thanks for the unambiguous feedback! You both are probably right. I'm just having a hard time finding the right car.

[desertman123]

Originally Posted by ndfan

Thanks for the unambiguous feedback! You both are probably right. I'm just having a hard time finding the right car.

Honestly man just wait for the right one to pop up. I understand how difficult it can be. Don't settle and be constantly looking over your shoulder.

Maybe in the mean time finely-hone which packages you'll prefer? Like when I was looking, sport package and 6MT was non-negotiable.

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by ndfan

Thanks for the unambiguous feedback! You both are probably right. I'm just having a hard time finding the right car.

If you cant find something with a clean title within your price range, you're not looking for the right car.

[ndfan]

Originally Posted by 6IX-F10-N52

If you cant find something with a clean title within your price range, you're not looking for the right car.

It has more to do with options than price.

At this point, the "right" 128i for me has a number of specifics, including a convertible, manual transmission, under 65k miles (or so), sport package, and probably any color other than cashmere silver and maybe blue water. Getting a convertible and manual transmission already slices 128i's down to very small fraction. It seems that very few 128i's were ordered/leased with all my preferred options (and the rebuilt title car is among those few), so perhaps I'm too particular.

Looking nationwide, I can find a number for $20k+ that meet my desires, but I would rather have one further down the depreciation curve, which seems to be somewhat steep until the high-to-mid teens. Time will tell if I have to be more flexible on features and price.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by ndfan

I asked the dealer to have the car in for an alignment, as I've heard that a car cannot be aligned unless its chassis is sufficiently straight. The alignment shop produced a standard form I've seen before, but at the bottom it stated:
"one or more values are not within specification. tire wear, handling and safety problems may result."

I have seen some pretty messed up cars be able to be aligned properly. There is quite a bit of range in the adjustments.

With a big enough hammer, I can get anything lined up.

What was out of spec?

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by ndfan

It has more to do with options than price.

At this point, the "right" 128i for me has a number of specifics, including a convertible, manual transmission, under 65k miles (or so), sport package, and probably any color other than cashmere silver and maybe blue water. Getting a convertible and manual transmission already slices 128i's down to very small fraction. It seems that very few 128i's were ordered/leased with all my preferred options (and the rebuilt title car is among those few), so perhaps I'm too particular.

Looking nationwide, I can find a number for $20k+ that meet my desires, but I would rather have one further down the depreciation curve, which seems to be somewhat steep until the high-to-mid teens. Time will tell if I have to be more flexible on features and price.

so you single out basically all the good 128i coupes available on the market in search for something heavier and less structurally rigid. yucky

[ndfan]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

I have seen some pretty messed up cars be able to be aligned properly. There is quite a bit of range in the adjustments.

With a big enough hammer, I can get anything lined up.

What was out of spec?

Your perspective on getting things lined up is interesting!

I'm no expert at reading the alignment readouts, but it appears the right and left front wheels were at the limits for camber, while most everything else seemed well within range. It was mostly the disclaimer I mentioned in my OP that concerned me, though as I mentioned, a BMW tech seemed fairly unconcerned with the readout.

[ndfan]

Originally Posted by 6IX-F10-N52

so you single out basically all the good 128i coupes available on the market in search for something heavier and less structurally rigid. yucky

I realize that my preferences are probably shared with few others on an enthusiast forum such as this one. I have owned an S2000 for 6 years, so I know that I used my car more for its open top to get some sunshine and wind in my hair than I did for carving corners. With that said, I loved carving corners when I had the chance. Mundane driving has become my routine now that a newborn who arrived last year means my only seat-time has been for commuting and running errands. I'm just being realistic.

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by ndfan

I realize that my preferences are probably shared with few others on an enthusiast forum such as this one. I have owned an S2000 for 6 years, so I know that I used my car more for its open top to get some sunshine and wind in my hair than I did for carving corners. With that said, I loved carving corners when I had the chance. Mundane driving has become my routine now that a newborn who arrived last year means my only seat-time has been for commuting and running errands. I'm just being realistic.

fair enough..

Honestly, when looking for a used car, especially if a manual is a must (like many of us here) its best to keep your options open especially in a situation like this.

like if you find a coupe thats better value, lower mileage, in better shape, the specific colour combo you want, etc. It's really a no brainer in that case.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by ndfan

Your perspective on getting things lined up is interesting!

I'm no expert at reading the alignment readouts, but it appears the right and left front wheels were at the limits for camber, while most everything else seemed well within range. It was mostly the disclaimer I mentioned in my OP that concerned me, though as I mentioned, a BMW tech seemed fairly unconcerned with the readout.

Was the front camber out -ve on one side and +ve on the other? Usually that means the front subframe has been pushed to one side. Could need the subframe adjusted, replaced or the entire front of the car is twisted.

Post up the sheet.

[ndfan]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Was the front camber out -ve on one side and +ve on the other? Usually that means the front subframe has been pushed to one side. Could need the subframe adjusted, replaced or the entire front of the car is twisted.

Post up the sheet.

After finding the alignment document (which I edited to remove shop information), I figured I might as well include the photos of the car's underside provided by the seller. If you could provide any expert insight, I would be extremely grateful.

[juld0zer]

Haha wow.. lol.. is that all it takes to write off a car these days? That hole, unless it pierces the floor into th cabin, is nothing. It doesn't look like it will have gone thru. Bog it up, paint it and then put some bitumen sealer over it.

As for the blue line, just replace it. Labour might be a bit expensive but if you dont mind getting your hands dirty then you could get a bargain. From memory, the blue line can either be liquid fuel or fuel vapour from the charcoal canister

Alignment looks reasonable, on par to most cars running around these days.

Edit: Loaded pics in full size. Maybe the floor did get pierced... still, not a difficult nor expensive repair

[MightyMouseTech]

Honestly, alignment looks good. Little bit of extra negative camber on both sides is a good thing. Stock spec is max -0.5, so -0.6 on one side and -0.7 on the other is actually really good. Maybe somebody pulled the pins on the top hats and pushed them in a bit.

[ndfan]

Originally Posted by juld0zer

Haha wow.. lol.. is that all it takes to write off a car these days? That hole, unless it pierces the floor into the cabin, is nothing. It doesn't look like it will have gone thru. Edit: Loaded pics in full size. Maybe the floor did get pierced... still, not a difficult nor expensive repair

Frankly, I was surprised as well, though the pictures are not the best and the seller seems a bit tight-lipped on what exactly was repaired, so I figured (major conjecture here) that the road debris that caused the damage (which I confirmed with original owner) could have bent some sub-frame or other areas you cannot see in the pictures or were replaced/fixed before the pictures were taken.

I also recall reading somewhat that BMW does not sell floorpans so that significant (and maybe even less significant) damage to a floorpan could total a car.

As a convertible, I would think that damage to the undercarriage could be quite critical, so I'm curious in your opinion (or that of others) if the gouge (if not possible hole) might be enough to cause concern for the car's structural rigidity.

Originally Posted by juld0zer

As for the blue line, just replace it. Labour might be a bit expensive but if you dont mind getting your hands dirty then you could get a bargain. From memory, the blue line can either be liquid fuel or fuel vapour from the charcoal canister

The seller already replaced the fuel line and some other return or vapor line. The car runs.

Originally Posted by juld0zer

Alignment looks reasonable, on par to most cars running around these days.

This is very good to know... thank you! It seems you are saying it's slightly out of spec, but that is fine. If I'm correct, is it normally difficult to get such a car back to being fully within spec? Finally, should the following phrase from the alignment report concern me?
"one or more values are not within specification. tire wear, handling and safety problems may result."
*This warning is the thing that really scared me off.

[ndfan]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Honestly, alignment looks good. Little bit of extra negative camber on both sides is a good thing. Stock spec is max -0.5, so -0.6 on one side and -0.7 on the other is actually really good. Maybe somebody pulled the pins on the top hats and pushed them in a bit.

Thank you very much for your insight... I really appreciate it!

As I asked juld0zer, would you be scared off by the caveat stating "one or more values are not within specification. tire wear, handling and safety problems may result."

A couple of you have changed my mind about the viability of buying this car, so I'd be very curious what you think a 2010 128i convertible with 50k miles with a rebuilt title is worth, considering what you can glean from the alignment and pictures from underneath the car where it was damaged. If the price seems right, I might move on it this weekend. Thanks again for everyone's feedback!

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by ndfan

As I asked juld0zer, would you be scared off by the caveat stating "one or more values are not within specification. tire wear, handling and safety problems may result."

Not even remotely worried. Honestly, you want much more front negative camber than spec anyways for better tire wear IMHO. I am running -2.0 in the front and my tire wear is even.

Previous owner likely pulled the pins on the front strut mounts to increase the camber a bit for better handling.

[ndfan]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Previous owner likely pulled the pins on the front strut mounts to increase the camber a bit for better handling.

From the little I know about the previous (and only) owner, I don't think messing with the strut mounts is something he would do or ask somebody else to do for him. I just didn't know if the undercarriage damage caused this car (assuming it had/has OEM alignment settings) to be permanently unable to be aligned, and if so, how serious that would be. In other words, I'm just concerned about the straightness of the car, but it appears people are saying there's nothing to worry about regarding the car being bent out of whack.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by ndfan

From the little I know about the previous (and only) owner, I don't think messing with the strut mounts is something he would do or ask somebody else to do for him. I just didn't know if the undercarriage damage caused this car (assuming it had/has OEM alignment settings) to be permanently unable to be aligned, and if so, how serious that would be. In other words, I'm just concerned about the straightness of the car, but it appears people are saying there's nothing to worry about regarding the car being bent out of whack.

Usually impact damage will cause the subframe to shift to one side, so camber will be out negative on one side and positive on the other side. Does not look to be collision related when both sides are evenly a little negative on both sides.

[ndfan]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Usually impact damage will cause the subframe to shift to one side, so camber will be out negative on one side and positive on the other side. Does not look to be collision related when both sides are evenly a little negative on both sides.

Awesome insight... thanks again so much!