1M to use twin turbo N54 - or so tell these pictures

[Bimmer4John]

Scott stated that the "powertrain" would be a hybrid. According to Wikipedia the powertrain includes the engine, transmission, driveshafts, differentials, and the final drive. Maybe we are reading to much into it and all he means is that it will be the N54 engine (tuned) hooked up with the M driveline.

...Or maybe not, I am definitely on the side that he was referring to the engine being a hybrid. My guess is they are going to use a modified version of the Cylinder-bank Comprehensive Exhaust Manifold that they developed for the X-Ms and M5 (although I'm not sure if it translates well to 2 banks of 3 cylinders)

[thez99]

This needs:

N54 engine with the twin turbos YET turbo's are slightly larger and ported allowing for atleast 4-5 more max psi each.

And as said before, better cooling, def twin oil coolers, larger more open intake setup and a tune. Id be figuring around 360 whp stock with that setup. That would push me towards a 1M for sure. Even moreso when integrating all the M suspension and chassis goodies along with it

AAAAND wider fenders!

[Dackelone]

I think when Scott said hybrid he meant it in its "old school" racer meaning.

hybrid = modified

[MyCorvette]

Given the extremely tight budget and timeframe that even prohibit the M dept to 'develop' the DCT powertrain for 1M (the reason I put the word 'develop' in quotes is because BMW already has bunch of existing DCTs for both N54 and N55 engines, not mentioning that the euro version of 335i coupe gets DCT LONG TIME ago), I forecast that the 1M will just have the 335is or Z4is version of N54 engine, nothing special. The only difference will be how the advertisement describe it.

[twenzel]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I think when Scott said hybrid he meant it in its "old school" racer meaning.

hybrid = modified

The old school "Hybrid" in the US tuner crowd usually applied to swapping motors into chassis' that didn't normally come with said motor. Integra motor into a Civic for example...

[Future M1 owner]

Originally Posted by madfast

2 small variable vane turbos? ah, now that's something

Given that BMW has, as it seems up until now, systematically chosen the route of least development resistance and effort (MT only, M3 suspension, N54), this seems somewhat unlikely in my opinion.

[dlbrooks18]

Originally Posted by felixcat

Given the extremely tight budget and timeframe that even prohibit the M dept to 'develop' the DCT powertrain for 1M (the reason I put the word 'develop' in quotes is because BMW already has bunch of existing DCTs for both N54 and N55 engines, not mentioning that the euro version of 335i coupe gets DCT LONG TIME ago), I forecast that the 1M will just have the 335is or Z4is version of N54 engine, nothing special. The only difference will be how the advertisement describe it.

+1, this seems most logical to me and coupled with better suspension and wide fenders there you have it..

[Oulixes]

Originally Posted by southlight

...
it's not only safe to assume that Bimmerfile's correct on the N54 being used in the 1M, it's also safe to assume that there won't be any change to the turbo layout, i.e. it will keep the N54's (single scroll) bi-turbo.
...

Good analysis, thanks for the pictures.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by dlbrooks18

+1, this seems most logical to me and coupled with better suspension and wide fenders there you have it..

I agree as well. Yes, I would absolutely love the S65 in there but that won't happen.

[Kinzer S13GT]

First of all it would be a lot easier to make a manifold (as on the S63) that feeds dual, twin scroll chargers, than it would to run a "parallel" or sequential turbo setup, with a variable vane controller. The system involved with controlling the compressor adjustment is much more complicated, not to mention the variable rate fuel/ignition mapping that goes with it. Its defeats the purpose and the marketing strategy of this car. Simplicity. The simplest way, would be to just remap it, and (maybe) jump to a slightly larger set of compressors (as on the S63) to broaden the power range, and modify the induction side of the engine, (AS ON THE S63). Tuning alone can cover a lot more than you think.

[timhatimay]

Whenever I think of Hybrid motors, I think of Frankensteins (e.g. LS-Vtec). Is it possible that they would add the head from the N55 to the N54 along with valvetronic? This may take some significant modification, but I think a change to the motor itself is more likely than just upgraded turbo-chargers. Its a long shot, but first thing in my head with a hybrid motor is a mix of two motors, and it doesn't get any more basic in concept than swapping to the pieces out. I think the dual cats may represent the n54 block and twin turbo set-up remaining constant, so maybe there is some significant work on another part of the motor?

Who knows?

Tim

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I think when Scott said hybrid he meant it in its "old school" racer meaning.

hybrid = modified

a "hybrid" can mean many things to many people. If we read it ad "modified", it could mean the N54 or 55, or it could in my dreams, be a Twin turbo S54B32...

[M3roar]

I feel so special.... I noticed that a while back and Scott laughed at me and said it was boobies.... lol.

I also noticed the CF diffuser but thats still up for debate, even in my own mind its not clear. I see both arguments but no one can know for sure until its revealed.

[bryce]

Originally Posted by Kinzer S13GT

First of all it would be a lot easier to make a manifold (as on the S63) that feeds dual, twin scroll chargers, than it would to run a "parallel" or sequential turbo setup, with a variable vane controller.

not on an inline 6. dual twin scoll turbos are all but impossible on an inline 6, due to cylinder pairing. a twin scroll manifold needs an even number of cylinders per scroll. i think a sequential turbo setup (like on the fd3 rx7) is feasible, but not likely for the 1m.

Originally Posted by timhatimay

Whenever I think of Hybrid motors, I think of Frankensteins (e.g. LS-Vtec). Is it possible that they would add the head from the N55 to the N54 along with valvetronic? This may take some significant modification, but I think a change to the motor itself is more likely than just upgraded turbo-chargers. Its a long shot, but first thing in my head with a hybrid motor is a mix of two motors, and it doesn't get any more basic in concept than swapping to the pieces out. I think the dual cats may represent the n54 block and twin turbo set-up remaining constant, so maybe there is some significant work on another part of the motor?

Who knows?

Tim

nice reference, my first car was a b-series honda. in regards to the "hybrid" scott26 speaks of, i'm positive it doesn't involve valvetronic. bmw ruled out the n55 due to issues involving the valvetronic system. it is intriguing, however, and i wonder if it has anything to do with the intake manifold design.

[mapezzul]

If you listen to the interview with Dr. K he discusses hybrid and how M looks at it as basically anything that improves efficiency- much like how GM originally did with Malibus etc.

He states that EPS (electric power steering), brake energy regen, start/stop and glass mat batteries can be viewed as hybrid tech.

Remember- The US was a market that the M3 did not have BER or start/stop, both come this fall-now the M3 parts bin will only have these parts.

Wonder what this could mean for the 1M and all this hybrid talk.

[Kinzer S13GT]

Originally Posted by bryce

not on an inline 6. dual twin scoll turbos are all but impossible on an inline 6, due to cylinder pairing. a twin scroll manifold needs an even number of cylinders per scroll. i think a sequential turbo setup (like on the fd3 rx7) is feasible, but not likely for the 1m.



nice reference, my first car was a b-series honda. in regards to the "hybrid" scott26 speaks of, i'm positive it doesn't involve valvetronic. bmw ruled out the n55 due to issues involving the valvetronic system. it is intriguing, however, and i wonder if it has anything to do with the intake manifold design.

...BMW has previously stated They will not use VALVETRONIC on any future M engines, for issues with "FRICTION" and heat at high RPMs.
(grooved bearing ledges, broken end stops)
As far as the twin scroll setup goes... the pulses from the exhaust has little to do with the number of cylinders, and more to do with firing order based on crankshaft design. Either way...I doubt either setup will be used on this car!
BMW has more tricks up there sleeve than u can imagine.

[///Mangler]

They are using the new tri-turbo diesel.

T

[TK-421]

Originally Posted by IS3andME

a "hybrid" can mean many things to many people. If we read it ad "modified", it could mean the N54 or 55, or it could in my dreams, be a Twin turbo S54B32...

[Cameraeye]

Originally Posted by timhatimay

Whenever I think of Hybrid motors, I think of Frankensteins (e.g. LS-Vtec). Is it possible that they would add the head from the N55 to the N54 along with valvetronic? This may take some significant modification, but I think a change to the motor itself is more likely than just upgraded turbo-chargers. Its a long shot, but first thing in my head with a hybrid motor is a mix of two motors, and it doesn't get any more basic in concept than swapping to the pieces out. I think the dual cats may represent the n54 block and twin turbo set-up remaining constant, so maybe there is some significant work on another part of the motor?

Who knows?

Tim

I think your right I was thinking the same thing.

[JB135MDCT]

Originally Posted by 1978.530i

Did SCOTT specifically say it would be a 'hybrid' between the N54 and N55? I didn't remember he specified those two engines. Is a 'hybrid' between the N54 and something else possible?

N55 head with 2 turbos? I don't count SW update allone as being "hybrid".

Also, 2 cats does not gaurantee an n54. More power may have forced the dual cats in adition to downpipe unit.

[sparoz]

To me the valvetronic is causing issues so I think it is the less likely to have valvetronic.

If the engine is 'hybrid', I feel that it meant by ///M and BMW AG hybrid, and I think it is going to be a twinscroll twinturbo on a N54 as they only have to work on the manifold - which is technology they have got now. I believe they were going to have a N55 twinscoll twintubro.

Otherwise he might just meant the car is hybrid - ie a slightly modified engine (better cooling etc) in an essentially M car - which would be disappointing.

[aajami]

Hey dudes,

I'm an M3 guy, so I'm not quite up to speed on the N54 and N55 as I am the S54 and S65. That said, I'm a little surprised to see nobody bringing up the modified N54 engines in the 335is and Z4 S-Drive35is. They both produce 370 ft./lbs of torque, and the latter produces 340HP, in the overboost mode. This figure matches the speculation about the 1M's output. Couldn't the answer to this question ("what kind of N54 does the 1M have?") be as simple as "the one in the E89 35is"?

The "hybrid" clue that Scott mentions could allude to the fact that 1M's N54 has been modified to produce the 370 ft./lbs / 340HP output at all time, and not just in overboost mode.

Just my hypothesis...