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      09-05-2011, 04:46 PM   #67
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This whole fiasco makes me never want to buy a performance car, new or used. If you can't trust a large BMW dealership to treat their customers properly when dropping 70k, who can you trust? I have a feeling this happens a lot more than any of us would be willing to admit.

I suggest you get a full refund for the car plus all the fees involved. Before you return it, BEAT THE FUCKING SHIT OUT OF IT. I mean bring it to the point where any normal person could feel the wear and tear to suspension/drivetrain/engine when test driving it. They tried to screw you, it's time you return the favor.
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      09-05-2011, 04:46 PM   #68
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China Lambo incident... Yikes!

Hey I took my car to the Nurburgring after my European Delivery but I never revved past 4,000 RPM (ok maybe once or twice I got to 5,000 but that's it).

It was painful NOT to during the break in process but I was following instructions to ensure a longer life of the engine and tranny and diff. My car, my decision, my expectations based on what I did to it, not what someone else did to it.

The reason that lawyers are used so often in the US is because people here can just as easily get away with things. The concept of public shame does not carry the same weight as it does in other countries, and people and companies can be totally shameless when it comes to dealing with their problems.

I would use a lawyer as a last resort, but hell yeah as much as I hate how ready Americans always are to bring on a lawsuit I think it is appropriate in some cases. These jokers at PBMW will continue to sell cars regardless of all of this bad publicity. Would a dealership in Europe get away with this unharmed?
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      09-05-2011, 04:48 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowfro View Post
^^^ Yikes!

Hey I took my car to the Nurburgring after my European Delivery but I never revved past 4,000 RPM (ok maybe once or twice I got to 5,000 but that's it).

It was painful NOT to during the break in process but I was following instructions to ensure a longer life of the engine and tranny and diff. My car, my decision, my expectations based on what I did to it, not what someone else did to it.

The reason that lawyers are used so often in the US is because people here can just as easily get away with things. The concept of public shame does not carry the same weight as it does in other countries, and people and companies can be totally shameless when it comes to dealing with their problems.

I would use a lawyer as a last resort, but hell yeah as much as I hate how ready Americans always are to bring on a lawsuit I think it is appropriate in some cases. These jokers at PBMW will continue to sell cars regardless of all of this bad publicity. Would a dealership in Europe get away with this unharmed?
Don't bring a knife to a gun fight...trust me they are lawyer'ed up the wazoo...don't you think you should be too?
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      09-05-2011, 05:01 PM   #70
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I was in the car sales business for 5 years. Worked for Audi, Subaru, Lincoln, Mercury, and Toyota. #1....Why the hell would u pay 10k over sticker for that car? Thats just crazy. #2. Get a copy of that video before it dissapears. #3. Send the video to BMW NA. Def get lawyers involved. Drive that car through the front window of the dealership. Call the dealer principle. Make as much as a big fuss as u can. How did you pay for the car? Finance or cash? Call the bank if you financed it. Sue the dealership. How the hell dont you check the car over before you buy it and check the miles? In NY and NJ you actually have 2 days to return the car believe it or not.
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      09-05-2011, 05:01 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp View Post
And?

He WANTED to pay $10k over sticker, he wasn't forced into it.
Do we see how each and every one of our cars are driven before they are in our hands?
Do we see how they are driven, or left idling, while they are in for service?

This one was caught on video so we can fight back against it, but you have to be careful what you ask for. Why would the dealer give back $10k when that was the agreed price for the car?

The owner is worried about reliability, correct? So you give the owner extended warranty to show that if something does go wrong, BMW stands behind their product.

Yes, it's not fair that the owner didn't get to launch the car before the dealer did, but as Mr. Europe said, most ED owners take their cars to the track as soon as they pick them up. Reliability is not the issue, we are just being immature and saying "it's my toy, i should have gotten to play with it first".
For that, you get an extended warranty, or $2k back, not an arm and a leg which you gave up for no reason to get this toy in the first place.

Just my opinion.
It's not worth your time and there should be more important things in life than this. Think of it this way, if there was no video, you wouldn't have known sh*t and you would have been in the same shoes as 99.9% of the rest of the world and BMW owners. You're not the first, nor are you the last to get something like this. Same sh*t will happen with your (and our) next car probably but it won't be on video.
He paid 10k over sticker for a NEW car.

Obviously for something like this to get so much publicity, it is not standard practice by any means.

Nobody goes into a dealership expecting the techs to act as they did in the case of Pacific BMW. That's just ridiculous to expect of anyone.

Yes, people take their cars to the tracks with 5 miles on them. Who cares? That is their decision, and they get to make it because they own the car. Not the technicians.

The issue here ISN'T reliability. The issue is a misrepresentation of a product. As a dealership your only job is to get the car from manufacturer to client. Yes, things can happen that are outside of their powers, but this is entirely different. An employee is a representation of a company. By hiring somebody you're saying that you are responsible for what they do at work.

When a dealership can't guarantee that their techs won't **** with the car, who would do business with them? 10k is a drop in the bucket in comparison to the bad press they could be getting if this becomes more public.

^^^^^ 1000

If I'm paying top dollar, I want top dollar product. Period.
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      09-05-2011, 05:03 PM   #72
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Oh my god!! WOT with double figure mileage to red-line - Sue the bastards for all they're worth!
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      09-05-2011, 05:06 PM   #73
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You will win if you sue if you have that video and you should get all your $ back.
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      09-05-2011, 05:20 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp View Post
And?

He WANTED to pay $10k over sticker, he wasn't forced into it.
Do we see how each and every one of our cars are driven before they are in our hands?
Do we see how they are driven, or left idling, while they are in for service?

This one was caught on video so we can fight back against it, but you have to be careful what you ask for. Why would the dealer give back $10k when that was the agreed price for the car?

The owner is worried about reliability, correct? So you give the owner extended warranty to show that if something does go wrong, BMW stands behind their product.

Yes, it's not fair that the owner didn't get to launch the car before the dealer did, but as Mr. Europe said, most ED owners take their cars to the track as soon as they pick them up. Reliability is not the issue, we are just being immature and saying "it's my toy, i should have gotten to play with it first".
For that, you get an extended warranty, or $2k back, not an arm and a leg which you gave up for no reason to get this toy in the first place.

Just my opinion.
It's not worth your time and there should be more important things in life than this. Think of it this way, if there was no video, you wouldn't have known sh*t and you would have been in the same shoes as 99.9% of the rest of the world and BMW owners. You're not the first, nor are you the last to get something like this. Same sh*t will happen with your (and our) next car probably but it won't be on video.

+1
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      09-05-2011, 05:24 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 535DMSport View Post
How about the tires you hear a few srkeets here and there and he well paid for NEW tires. And now I am only talking about the tires. Have your flame suit on also.

omg! few skreets from tires!

those NEW tires also carry 3000lbs + of metal
standing still or rolling from the time it rolled off factory
oh the agony and torture those tires must go thru..

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      09-05-2011, 05:25 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksak View Post
I suggest you get a full refund for the car plus all the fees involved. Before you return it, BEAT THE FUCKING SHIT OUT OF IT. I mean bring it to the point where any normal person could feel the wear and tear to suspension/drivetrain/engine when test driving it. They tried to screw you, it's time you return the favor.
Your no better than the dealer if you do something stupid like that ^
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      09-05-2011, 05:30 PM   #77
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You deserve everything you can get out of Pacific. Hell, I'd ask for a 2012 production slot 1M in direct exchange for your current car and keep the current one until it arrives. Think about that the video only shows a short part of the drive. Who knows how many more WOT runs was made when there wasn't someone there to document it.

Makes me wonder if things like this are the reason my 135i had so many problems. I bought it with 400 miles on it and it had been at the dealer for about 5 months when. I should've been clued in when I was told, "It's the car everyone wants to drive, but no one wants to buy." Tells me now it probably had almost 400 miles of "joy riding" before it was anywhere near out of the break-in period.
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      09-05-2011, 05:38 PM   #78
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I don't know the ins and outs of US law as i'm from the UK but you definitely have a case of negligence, and breach of contract (your contract will say new vehicle yada yada reasonable delivery use yada yada) the key here is 'reasonable man' test. A reasonable man wouldn't have driven the car like that nor would he expect it to be driven in such a manner (clearly committing all sorts of traffic violations) So you have a right to 'reasonable compensation' You also will definitely win a court case as the law tends to take davids side in a david vs Goliath.

There is also bound to be some violation under agency law by those guys actually committing the offence so i would sue both the dealer, and the individuals. inform bmwna of your decision, and outline your PR activity surrounding this case

and i predict that once they realise you are serious, the dealer will choose to settle under pressure from BMWNA themselves.

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      09-05-2011, 05:43 PM   #79
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This is a bitter pill to swallow. I watched this clip and was seething with rage. I honestly wanted to bash something. I hope you get your refund and it is certainly due. It's a disgrace. If it makes you feel any better, my 135i has on a recent check-up been drilled to death with poorer consumption figures (far worse actually) than I've ever achieved even on 'fun-runs'. Probably nailing it to death when the engine was cold. Nice. Really nice. I hope things come right for you.
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      09-05-2011, 05:46 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuddhaPilot View Post
Makes me wonder if things like this are the reason my 135i had so many problems. I bought it with 400 miles on it and it had been at the dealer for about 5 months when. I should've been clued in when I was told, "It's the car everyone wants to drive, but no one wants to buy." Tells me now it probably had almost 400 miles of "joy riding" before it was anywhere near out of the break-in period.
Reference my comment above. I discovered this through a simple fuel average check. Hammered. F**king dealers.
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      09-05-2011, 05:49 PM   #81
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While I think no harm was done, it is ridiculously disrespectful and unprofessional on their part. Part of the new owner experience is going WOT yourself, not some irresponsible pricks that take advantage of their job position. Good luck getting 10K back, at this point I would rather confront whoever drove the car and receive a formal apology and give him a few sucker punches in the adams apple. 2K doesn't seem like a bad deal then
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      09-05-2011, 05:51 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp View Post
And?

He WANTED to pay $10k over sticker, he wasn't forced into it.
Do we see how each and every one of our cars are driven before they are in our hands?
Do we see how they are driven, or left idling, while they are in for service?

This one was caught on video so we can fight back against it, but you have to be careful what you ask for. Why would the dealer give back $10k when that was the agreed price for the car?

The owner is worried about reliability, correct? So you give the owner extended warranty to show that if something does go wrong, BMW stands behind their product.

Yes, it's not fair that the owner didn't get to launch the car before the dealer did, but as Mr. Europe said, most ED owners take their cars to the track as soon as they pick them up. Reliability is not the issue, we are just being immature and saying "it's my toy, i should have gotten to play with it first".
For that, you get an extended warranty, or $2k back, not an arm and a leg which you gave up for no reason to get this toy in the first place.

Just my opinion.
It's not worth your time and there should be more important things in life than this. Think of it this way, if there was no video, you wouldn't have known sh*t and you would have been in the same shoes as 99.9% of the rest of the world and BMW owners. You're not the first, nor are you the last to get something like this. Same sh*t will happen with your (and our) next car probably but it won't be on video.
He was quoted as buying a NEW CAR. Not one drilled up it's own butt-hole when a running-in period is required. He's very entitled to sue for damages. Whether he has a motorplan or not, the condition of sale is for a new vehicle. I am sure this sort of clause is not included, where staff can joy-ride, of course not. Any just because some take it on the track afterwards (and AFTER the run-in period) doesn't make it then ok. He might not have wanted to - it should be HIS choice, not that of another(s). Fact is it WAS on video, it WAS documented, and there IS proof. Sure it might happen to others, but that has nothing to do with this bloke, his car and his situation. He has every right to sue for damages and pay cost price. Charging 10k above sticker price after this disgrace is shocking.
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      09-05-2011, 05:52 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 535DMSport View Post
Wow, you must be way different than everybody else in here, and I am from the Netherlands myself, not too far from Belgium. This is inexcusable. You are out of your mind sir.
Agreed entirely. Nicely put and I salute you.
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      09-05-2011, 05:55 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
The act of a few individuals hardly represent the dealership as a whole.
Completely untrue. Those "few individuals" work for the dealership, represent the dealership, and uphold the dealership's values and work ethic. They are considered to be a part of the dealership, and their act definitely falls within the employer's scope of employment. Want to get "legal" about the issue? Google "Respondeat Superior" and knock yourself out. You'll learn a lot about these things.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BeemerBoyUK View Post
I don't know the ins and outs of US law as i'm from the UK but you definitely have a case of negligence, and breach of contract (your contract will say new vehicle yada yada reasonable delivery use yada yada) the key here is 'reasonable man' test. A reasonable man wouldn't have driven the car like that nor would he expect it to be driven in such a manner (clearly committing all sorts of traffic violations) So you have a right to 'reasonable compensation' You also will definitely win a court case as the law tends to take davids side in a david vs Goliath.

There is also bound to be some violation under agency law by those guys actually committing the offence so i would sue both the dealer, and the individuals. inform bmwna of your decision, and outline your PR activity surrounding this case

and i predict that once they realise you are serious, the dealer will choose to settle under pressure from BMWNA themselves.

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      09-05-2011, 06:00 PM   #85
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I dunno... I would probably try to get rid of such car altogether. You never know what kind of other... "things" those assholes tried to do to it some of which probably involved some bodily fluids
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      09-05-2011, 06:01 PM   #86
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I say there are two different outcomes you should try to get out of BMW.

Option 1: They refund the $10,000 over MSRP you paid and offer an extended warranty to you at no cost.

Option 2 (the more likely course of action by BMW imo): They take your car back, and order you a new one. You will receive a new car as stated in the original contract. Legally, this is the more likely outcome. Inconvenience costs could be added into the lawsuit, but I'm no lawyer so talk to yours about that.

Good luck! It's too bad you didn't get the news before the story broke. I'd assume BMW would've preferred to have it swept under the table.
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      09-05-2011, 06:07 PM   #87
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It depends on how much of your time you want to dedicate to this. After watching your video twice and giving it a few minutes to think about I would have your attorney tell them you will settle for 5K returned, an extended warranty added, and you will cease and desist any negative publicity toward the dealer. Mention your local consumer advocate and the interest they have in your story and watch their heads start shaking yes. They do not want bad publicity!
As stupid as these guys were for recording it and then posting it online the driver did shift smoothly and although he rev'd it to near 7K, and chirped the wheels I did nearly the same with mine. I don't want this to turn into the "break in" debate but many are of the opinion that you drive it like it will be driven from the get go, minus 10-20%. They messed up and they know it but you might as well get compensated and perhaps a 90 minute massage to boot.

Can anyone tell if the engine was up to temp when they did this? If it was cold then you have my permission to open a can of whooooop arse on the entire lot.
(my attorney says this is by no means a suggestion and we do not advise nor are we liable for any illegal activity)
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      09-05-2011, 06:11 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwelvaar View Post
As a European, this thread makes me laugh. Damn, lawyers in the US must be so f*cking rich.

Also, when some guys do ED and take their car the next day to the Nurburgring and to Spa-Francorchamps for extended lapping, you're all like 'woohoow!'
But when some garage guy drives the car around the block the way M cars are built to handle, oh boy, bring on the suits.

I'm not saying you're wrong and the dealership is right.
But I'f someone would offer me 2k$ for a 10 minute joy ride in my car (without braking anything), I'd happily take the money.
No need for an army of lawyers.
This is America not Europe Jack. You think if he had bought a brand new 1M off the lot, driven it that way to the dealers knowledge, and then returned it five minutes later to the dealership citing a change of mind that he would have gotten a full refund on the price he paid? Once a car rolls of the lot it is used as far as dealers are concerned. Why sell him a used car at a 10k premium? If they were fine with the test drive, why fire their employees?
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