max negative camber on stock suspension without camber plates?

[thez99]

Originally Posted by timhatimay

Sounds like you might be best off with just the sway bar, and forego the M3 control arms. They are a nice upgrade, and I love them, but somewhat subtle. The thicker front sway bar will remove a lot of the body roll in the front, while also helping with understeer as well. For a street car that you are already happy with, forget about camber plates and M3 parts. They sound like overkill for your goals.

If you do decide you want additional camber, I would recommend the Dinan Plates. They maintain a lot of the stock equipment and basically shift the strut inwards toward the car a bit. This is less extreme IMO than a full set of adjustable plates, and that why I chose them for my car (which is a daily driven car with auto-x time), but also not as flexible for a full track car. Also, larger front tires will help provide more grip to the front of the car, thus also dialing out some understeer. This is why many people try to stuff bigger tires up front.

Tim

And honestly, I would think a slightly wider tire up front wouldnt do shit for providing more grip, etc. Infact wont a wider front tire cause more steering lag, harder for the car to steer thru a fast turn? And again, these arent 185 width tires here, 225 for a front set is still pretty average for a sports coupe. But if I was worried about grip I would worry more about the KIND of tire and its quality rather than sizing it up more causing problems with fitment, etc. Also, a wider tire in the rear without overdoing it can plant you firmly to the ground with grip specially with a rwd car where all the power comes from the rear.

[thez99]

Originally Posted by larryn

Confused because you said "anybody"... not just you.

So, gotcha now that you clarified. When you said anybody, you meant only you.

Well..ya. I meant that I dont see why anybody would want a tire wider than 225-235 for THIS car WITHOUT modifying other shit like the fenders and camber. Just doesnt make sense, the 135s fenders and wheel offset are very particular and when people with this car start to go all wide-wheel crazy thinking that the widest is always the best, I dont see the logic in that, mainly for the front.

[terivera]

I have been tracking my 2011 135 w/dct and I run a square setup of 255x40x17 and have found them to work very well. I am wearing the front left severely as one would expect primarily on a track with predominately rt turns.as to stagger. on my last car 335i I was happy with the same tire setup but someone convinced me more is better so I followed with 275X35X17s and 255s in front EIGHT (8) 30 minute sessions and the fronts were toast and I was done for the weekend. The rears stuck so well that they created push or plow and understeer. I am considering camber plates and some minor suspension mods as this is my daily driver. Any input is always appreciated. Eddie

[timhatimay]

Originally Posted by thez99

And honestly, I would think a slightly wider tire up front wouldnt do shit for providing more grip, etc. Infact wont a wider front tire cause more steering lag, harder for the car to steer thru a fast turn? And again, these arent 185 width tires here, 225 for a front set is still pretty average for a sports coupe. But if I was worried about grip I would worry more about the KIND of tire and its quality rather than sizing it up more causing problems with fitment, etc. Also, a wider tire in the rear without overdoing it can plant you firmly to the ground with grip specially with a rwd car where all the power comes from the rear.

If you don't think wider tires help with grip, why do you keep suggesting larger rear tires for rwd? Saying that wider tires will not help because you don't want to roll fenders is silly logic. Your point about good quality tires I agree with, and definitely will make a difference. I'm talking about cornering grip, not for acceleration. I understand not wanting to majorly modify to fit a tire, because I feel the same way to a point...but that doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Tim

[larryn]

Originally Posted by terivera

I have been tracking my 2011 135 w/dct and I run a square setup of 255x40x17 and have found them to work very well. I am wearing the front left severely as one would expect primarily on a track with predominately rt turns.as to stagger. on my last car 335i I was happy with the same tire setup but someone convinced me more is better so I followed with 275X35X17s and 255s in front EIGHT (8) 30 minute sessions and the fronts were toast and I was done for the weekend. The rears stuck so well that they created push or plow and understeer. I am considering camber plates and some minor suspension mods as this is my daily driver. Any input is always appreciated. Eddie

Hey Eddie, How did you manage to get 255's up front without camber plates?

[thez99]

Originally Posted by timhatimay

If you don't think wider tires help with grip, why do you keep suggesting larger rear tires for rwd? Saying that wider tires will not help because you don't want to roll fenders is silly logic. Your point about good quality tires I agree with, and definitely will make a difference. I'm talking about cornering grip, not for acceleration. I understand not wanting to majorly modify to fit a tire, because I feel the same way to a point...but that doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Tim

What I mean is your rear tires are set, and specially on the 1er, its where the power comes from, so in my eyes wider (without poking outside the fender) is better to put the power down solid. Whereas the front tires are your steering tires obviously, constantly left n right, so having them be just as wide just asks for rubbing and understeer. Obviously you do not need 255-265 tires up front to get proper grip and turning performance unless your driving a wicked fast car LIKE I SAID BEFORE a lambo or something. The 135 is powerful but not so much you need to modify everything about ur front fender and suspension just to run a tire thats already 2-3 sizes to big for the car.

Please realize that you say all this bout front wide tires giving better grip, etc. Which will affect grip and lateral control more, specially if ur tracking the car, a 255 front tire over a 225, or a much better quality tire with better dry stabilization and handling??? Me thinks the latter. So go with a 225 front and 255-265 rear where the power is, choose excellent quality and performance tires, and you will NOT lose stability, and youll prob gain a lil time considering turn in is a bit faster with a 225 than a 255 methinks.

Now if you really wanna loose control, then go ahead and take a 90 degree turn at 60 mph, pretty sure ull loose it big time with the 255 up front as well.

Case n point

[timhatimay]

Originally Posted by thez99

What I mean is your rear tires are set, and specially on the 1er, its where the power comes from, so in my eyes wider (without poking outside the fender) is better to put the power down solid. Whereas the front tires are your steering tires obviously, constantly left n right, so having them be just as wide just asks for rubbing and understeer. Obviously you do not need 255-265 tires up front to get proper grip and turning performance unless your driving a wicked fast car LIKE I SAID BEFORE a lambo or something. The 135 is powerful but not so much you need to modify everything about ur front fender and suspension just to run a tire thats already 2-3 sizes to big for the car.

Please realize that you say all this bout front wide tires giving better grip, etc. Which will affect grip and lateral control more, specially if ur tracking the car, a 255 front tire over a 225, or a much better quality tire with better dry stabilization and handling??? Me thinks the latter. So go with a 225 front and 255-265 rear where the power is, choose excellent quality and performance tires, and you will NOT lose stability, and youll prob gain a lil time considering turn in is a bit faster with a 225 than a 255 methinks.

Now if you really wanna loose control, then go ahead and take a 90 degree turn at 60 mph, pretty sure ull loose it big time with the 255 up front as well.

Case n point

I'm not sure who is taking a 90* turn at 60 mph, or why we keep talking about "lambos" but having more grip in the front of the car will help with the understeer tendencies of the 1er. By your logic, wouldn't good tires AND a bigger size be the ultimate then? (its not like good tires don't come in wider sizes for the front of BMWs)

I think you are missing the point of why many try to stick the widest tire possible in the front. It is not the end-all solution to the car, but will help. I'm sure if you ask those that race and auto-x often, who mostly will run wide tires front and rear, if they "lost time on turn-in" or improved the front end grip of the car, it would not be the former. I'm far from an experienced track driver, but I've felt the 135i plow through turns like a FWD. Some of this is driver skill of course, but there is plenty of room for improved front grip. It really has nothing to do with "losing it" on big turns because you can feel it just the same on tight turns at 20 mph, and from what I can tell turn-in on the car was mostly unaffected but slightly wider tires. On the street you probably wouldn't notice any of this behavior (because I rarely have), but it becomes much more obvious even for a novice weekend auto-xer, when driving on the course.

Sorry OP...Back OT, what ended up being the maximum camber you could get with the stock set-up?

Tim

[gumpy]

Finally got the alignment done. Most you can get is -0.5 in front. Rear is no Problem. Can get -3.5 if you wanted. Yes, this is with removing the pins. It is a shame that front negative camber is so limited on these cars. But I guess, that would hurt M3 sales.

Gumpy.