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      02-12-2013, 01:22 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shah269 View Post
But aren't F1 cars running electric steering?
From the official F1 site (emphasis mine):
"Power steering systems are allowed, but these must not be electronically controlled or powered."
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      02-12-2013, 07:02 AM   #24
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Add me to the list. My E85 Z4 had electric steering and the feeling is good by most car standards, but numb compared to What BMW has done with hydraulic. In doubt? Test drive one....very different feedback and less 'predictable' feel.
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      02-12-2013, 08:32 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by int2str View Post
From the official F1 site (emphasis mine):
"Power steering systems are allowed, but these must not be electronically controlled or powered."
Also, F1 has nothing to do with driving feel or street driving. Just because they use engines that have lives measured in hours doesn't mean you should too.
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      02-12-2013, 10:35 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shah269 View Post
But aren't F1 cars running electric steering? And some WRC cars?
Yes. BMW appears to have taken a swing and a miss with some of their electric set-ups. This by all means does not mean that electric steering sucks. I respect BMW for not doubling down here as they have definitely been proactively pursuing a solution.

There were a lot of issues in the industry when gas pedals became drive by wire vs mechanical throttles. This too shall pass.

Last edited by mryakanisachoad; 02-12-2013 at 04:01 PM..
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      02-12-2013, 10:44 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
Also, F1 has nothing to do with driving feel or street driving. Just because they use engines that have lives measured in hours doesn't mean you should too.
Again, F1 and Ferrari had major influence in getting the car enthusiast community to accept no more rowing. "Purists" are still having difficult time accepting this change. Does that make them Luddites? No.

An interesting dynamic is that for many cars, manuals command a premium. I never could have guessed this phenomena.
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      02-12-2013, 11:05 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
Also, F1 has nothing to do with driving feel or street driving. Just because they use engines that have lives measured in hours doesn't mean you should too.
Considering that F1 V8s idle where our engines redline...im going to agree with you
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      02-12-2013, 11:23 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mryakanisachoad View Post
Again, F1 and Ferrari had major influence in getting the car enthusiast community to accept no more rowing. "Purists" are still having difficult time accepting this change. Does that make them Luddites? No.

An interesting dynamic is that for many cars, manuals command a premium. I never could have guessed this phenomena.
It's not that we are having a "difficult time accepting this change", it's that we don't want it period. It completely alters the driving experience for the worse for many of us. It's just as repulsive to us as the auto rev match manuals in the 350z and the F10 M5.
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      02-12-2013, 11:37 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
That's why every review of it says that it is feelingless now?

(Skip to 5:40)
I don't know, Mr. Argument-pants, I was just driving an F-30 loaner in day-to-day mode as 99% of drivers do, and it felt fine. Take it FWIW.
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      02-12-2013, 12:25 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mryakanisachoad View Post
Yes. BMW appears to have taken a swing and a miss with some of their electric set-ups. This by all means does not mean that electric steering sucks.
If by "yes" you mean F1 uses electric power steering, then you clearly didn't read the F1 rules or my post above yours
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      02-12-2013, 04:05 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
It's not that we are having a "difficult time accepting this change", it's that we don't want it period. It completely alters the driving experience for the worse for many of us. It's just as repulsive to us as the auto rev match manuals in the 350z and the F10 M5.
I understand. That would be why I used the word "purist" to describe some enthusiasts.
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      02-12-2013, 04:25 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by int2str View Post
If by "yes" you mean F1 uses electric power steering, then you clearly didn't read the F1 rules or my post above yours

Lol I know f1 doesn't use electric power steering. I was just trying to reinforce a point that even F1 accepts and rejects all sorts of new technology. F1 is also known for rejecting some tech after having embraced it. Which was the analogy I was trying to draw. Sorry I wasn't more clear.
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      02-12-2013, 05:00 PM   #34
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No complaints with my EPS on the 125i coupe. Yes it is less heavy than my E90 but not in a bad way. Still very predictable and nothing like EPS cars I've driven in the past like Toyota and Mazda.
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      02-12-2013, 10:05 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IancoleTX View Post
I don't know, Mr. Argument-pants, I was just driving an F-30 loaner in day-to-day mode as 99% of drivers do, and it felt fine. Take it FWIW.
Yup, I've done so as well. Interior is very nice, exterior is decent, steering was completely feelingless though accurate, and the engine was ok.
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      02-13-2013, 08:06 AM   #36
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I dropped-off a 2013 328 loaner yesterday and I was impressed with everything on the car except for 3 things...engine noise (nothing beats that inline 6 music), auto shut-off and the very numb EPS.
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      02-13-2013, 08:22 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewbacca View Post
I dropped-off a 2013 328 loaner yesterday and I was impressed with everything on the car except for 3 things...engine noise (nothing beats that inline 6 music), auto shut-off and the very numb EPS.
Exactly.
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      02-13-2013, 01:42 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
the ActiveE has an electric rack - it sucks, its vague, light, and has no feedback, night and day with my 135.


Conceptually I dont get why all electric steering systems are numb. Youre boosting the steering, either hydraulically or electrically. To means to the same end, so conceptually I dont understand why electric steering doesnt have the same feedback properties as hydraulic.
Hydraulic is Mechanical and there is an action that causes a reaction. Things (fluid) is being displaced therefore there is feedback. Electronic = no feedback. No displacement no movement. just a signal sent to a servo tellingit how far to move. Numb feeling.
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      02-13-2013, 02:29 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxrus14 View Post
Hydraulic is Mechanical and there is an action that causes a reaction. Things (fluid) is being displaced therefore there is feedback. Electronic = no feedback. No displacement no movement. just a signal sent to a servo tellingit how far to move. Numb feeling.
You can setup a feedback loop with an electric motor though...
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      02-14-2013, 02:33 PM   #40
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The variable sport steering (EPS+) option on the F30 does a much better job than the standard electric steering...very firm at speed but light as a feather when parking. There is still a slight lack of feedback compared to hydraulic but it is not bad at all. The base F30 steering firms up in sport mode, but really lacks feedback. Unfortunately, all loaner vehicles just have the base EPS.
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      02-14-2013, 04:30 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nospam View Post
The variable sport steering (EPS+) option on the F30 does a much better job than the standard electric steering...very firm at speed but light as a feather when parking. There is still a slight lack of feedback compared to hydraulic but it is not bad at all. The base F30 steering firms up in sport mode, but really lacks feedback. Unfortunately, all loaner vehicles just have the base EPS.
I know Porsche has started to go to electric steering. The reviews on the feel seem to be good.
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      02-14-2013, 07:23 PM   #42
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I've spent some seat time in the F30 both 335i and 328i sport, and the steering is OK, of course feedback has decreased dramatically but it still remains direct and accurate. Of course the steering in E82 is better and provides way more feedback. Last week i drove my moms car(2012 Focus) and when i hopped back in the 1er the tight and nice feedback of the steering just wooed me all over again. Sometimes you don't know what you have til you lose it.
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