Alignment advice on a 135i with m3 bits

[Eyeman]

This alignment stuff is confusing but neat to those of us who don't track our cars.

My first two alignments at supposedly one of the best shops in Atlanta had me eating up my front tires. My car drove straight, no pulling, etc. I had a corner balance and an old fashioned "measure it with strings" kinda alignment not too long ago. They said my original alignment was way off but when I read through the numbers they don't read very different. Mainly looks like the last place just added more front camber.

I'm still using the same tires and you can tell the front tires are louder, hopefully due to now tracking properly. They list my car having 6.9 caster. All my alignments have always read to have toe out in front and toe in rear.

Funny enough this last alignment did set me up with an additional 0.1degree more camber on the right side front and rear. Not sure if they did that on purpose like thez99 suggested.

[thez99]

Originally Posted by Eyeman

This alignment stuff is confusing but neat to those of us who don't track our cars.

My first two alignments at supposedly one of the best shops in Atlanta had me eating up my front tires. My car drove straight, no pulling, etc. I had a corner balance and an old fashioned "measure it with strings" kinda alignment not too long ago. They said my original alignment was way off but when I read through the numbers they don't read very different. Mainly looks like the last place just added more front camber.

I'm still using the same tires and you can tell the front tires are louder, hopefully due to now tracking properly. They list my car having 6.9 caster. All my alignments have always read to have toe out in front and toe in rear.

Funny enough this last alignment did set me up with an additional 0.1degree more camber on the right side front and rear. Not sure if they did that on purpose like thez99 suggested.

So how much camber was actually on ur fronts for them to be wearing so crazily?

[Eyeman]

The inner and outer portions of my front tires were wearing faster than the center and they were cupping a little. And they are wearing out as fast as my rears. I'll be going to my third sets of fronts and rears at a little over 30k.

My alignment readings prior to the corner balance said everything was within specs and really not numerically very different from the newer readings. I think it was something to do with the front toe not the camber. But as I said this respected shop had me listed with just slight toe out as it should have. So who knows? I just hope my next set of tires wears properly.

[thez99]

Originally Posted by Eyeman

The inner and outer portions of my front tires were wearing faster than the center and they were cupping a little. And they are wearing out as fast as my rears. I'll be going to my third sets of fronts and rears at a little over 30k.

My alignment readings prior to the corner balance said everything was within specs and really not numerically very different from the newer readings. I think it was something to do with the front toe not the camber. But as I said this respected shop had me listed with just slight toe out as it should have. So who knows? I just hope my next set of tires wears properly.

Hmm, that sounds pretty insane to go thru 3 sets of tires in 30k miles unless u drive like an idiot all the time. If your toe was out I dont think that would affect the wear as much as the camber. If you had massive camber up front this whole time, like more than -1.7 than that could start to wear the tires more on the inside, but not the outside. So who knows

[xerox445]

Originally Posted by thez99

Hmm, that sounds pretty insane to go thru 3 sets of tires in 30k miles unless u drive like an idiot all the time. If your toe was out I dont think that would affect the wear as much as the camber. If you had massive camber up front this whole time, like more than -1.7 than that could start to wear the tires more on the inside, but not the outside. So who knows

Um. Ok. I'll be gentle.

In laymens terms, Camber will dictate WHERE the wear will be. That means any wear, daily driving, tracking, and "driving insane". Negative on the inside of the wheel, positive on the outside. Lack of camber is also going to cause the outside to roll over and wear your outside edge.

Toe essentially makes the tire "drag" sideways every rotation. Toe out is going to make the car "dartier", Toe in is going to give you better tracking and stability at high speeds. Either way its going to make the tire "drag" and wear faster. Toe is a much larger factor in tire wear vs camber.

Soooooooooooo, if your toe is out, and your running say. 2 to 3 deg of camber....WHERE is the wear going to be? This combo will eat up the inside of the tires, because the toe is accellerating it.

[thez99]

Originally Posted by xerox445

Um. Ok. I'll be gentle.

In laymens terms, Camber will dictate WHERE the wear will be. That means any wear, daily driving, tracking, and "driving insane". Negative on the inside of the wheel, positive on the outside. Lack of camber is also going to cause the outside to roll over and wear your outside edge.

Toe essentially makes the tire "drag" sideways every rotation. Toe out is going to make the car "dartier", Toe in is going to give you better tracking and stability at high speeds. Either way its going to make the tire "drag" and wear faster. Toe is a much larger factor in tire wear vs camber.

Soooooooooooo, if your toe is out, and your running say. 2 to 3 deg of camber....WHERE is the wear going to be? This combo will eat up the inside of the tires, because the toe is accellerating it.

First off, it all depends on how much toe he has..unless its pretty aggressive, it wont make THAT much of a difference on wear. Plus, .2-.3 neg camber is hardly anything. Thats even less than I have up front and i have no suspension mods with just the pins pulled

[masetcp]

your toe will wear out your tires faster then cambering out your car. i went through alot of trouble with my s2000 and alignments

for a stock car the op's car looked fine. if he wanted he could of just went a little more on the toe out. but since your car is not lowered i'd say that is good for a stock suspension car.

[Eyeman]

I'm going to my third set of tires soon at 30k, so just two sets actually. I'm accustomed to low profile rears on rear wheel drive cambered cars going about twice as fast as the fronts. For sure I had a front toe issue. Hopefully they knocked it out this last fix. If I ever get a large suspension overhaul again I'll for sure go to a top of the line shop. I had way too many problems the way I did it this time.

[Jtoft]

I am a bit confused with this.

"Toe can also be used to alter a vehicle's handling traits. Increased toe-in will typically result in reduced oversteer, help steady the car and enhance high-speed stability. Increased toe-out will typically result in reduced understeer, helping free up the car, especially during initial turn-in while entering a corner" (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...e.jsp?techid=4)

Toe-in reduces oversteer. But it is quite difficult to have oversteer on the front wheels?
Toe-out reduces understeer. And again, quite difficult to have understeer on the rear wheels?

I quite like to oversteer in every possible corner, roundabout, crossroad etc. So i do NOT want to reduce oversteer. But i am not looking for understeer either.

In an oversteer situation it is preferable to have very good front end grip, but still a very nippy steering. And the rear wheels should not reduce oversteer in any way. I am not sure whether to enhance oversteer either, or what to do?

Any suggestions?

[Solo_M_Tech]

Watch your tire wear and pressure. Camber will wear out a tire quicker, but having too much toe in or out will destroy tires faster than having just camber. I'm running 2.5 degrees of neg camber and stock 1M toe front and rear and my tires are wearing even. Running Stock PSI front and rear.