[RPM90]

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

I don't think the dealer cares too much if A) they're not gonna make any money off your purchase, and B) you're going to give them low scores on the CSI survey anyway.

The way they see it, they're probably just getting rid of a potential headache - without really losing out on anything.

Yeah, that's not a great attitude to take.
You get what you expect, because you are probably acting in the proper manner in which to recieve it.

If one's whole career is based on one person's review of you, then either you accept it or move to another career where your ego won't be so easily bruised.

Writing a letter to a customer who you think is an a-hole is pointless and only serves to make these types of threads longer.
At least it exposes those who think they should always get rewarded even though they may not deserve it, but in their minds they do.

You can make some customers happy all the time, and some times you can make some customers happy, but you can't make every customer happy all of the time. So, in those instances let it go, smile, and give your best effort again to the next customer. Overtime you'll see if your best truly is.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by carjon

I think the system stinks. If they deserve all 5's they should get it. If they don't, they shouldn't. It isn't our fault that BMW doesn't want honest answers to their surveys. If they did, then all scores would be important and not the pass/fail. They also really in many cases don't ask the right questions.
Had an instance where the sales person did a great job but the finance person tried to play games with us. They certainly didn't get a 5 and the salesperson suffered. Maybe not his fault and the finance person was gone soon - probably played the game with all. If not for low scores would that person be gone?

Personally, based upon the survey scoring I'd rather not do a survey but I guess that isn't nice. Although on my most recent purchase (4/30/06) I have not been surveyed yet.

Plus it isn't as if BMW has gotten rid of bad dealerships or bad service departments.

I'm with you and in agreement with the reality of it.

I will, however, like to point out that many are making the assumption that BMW is screwing the dealers. Well, let's stop for a second to think about it this way. Getting all 5's means the customer felt the experience was indeed "Exceptional". Thus, as a reward BMW pays EXTRA bonus for that transaction.
It is the BMW dealership employees (mainly sales persons) who have the mistaken perception that BMW does not take 2,3, 4 seriously.
Companies use surveys and rating systems for a reason. They are on graded scales for a reason.
Thus, BMW can look at a region or state or city or whatever and make a determination regarding customer satisfaction ratings.

They could use the scores to decide where to implement a training plan in suc areas that typically score 60% of their transactions with a "4" rating.
They could also perhaps decide to provide greater field engineers in an area where service surveys indicate a large percentage of dissatisfied customers where perhaps a "2" is the norm. Thus, BMW can use the scale data to make business decisions that are greater than simply whether or nt the sales person will get a bonus on that one particular sale.
Many are being shortsighted here on how BMW may or may not be using the data they retrieve.
Many are looking at the survey soley from a "get my bonus" perspective and the assumption that BMW doesn't use the scale for more than that.

Let's give BMW, as a successful business, some credit here, and not take a simplistic look at how the survey's are used. Yes, one aspect of the survey is to see who is doing exceptional work and thus justly reward an "above and beyond" effort. Some here feel that a bonus is to be given by default by simple virture of the transaction happening, as longe as no one at the dealeship was so stupid as to actually smack the customer over the head in anger thus forcing a negative review.
It's as if every sale deserves a bonus. That's BS.

I work at a university and this attitude is prevalent in some students attitudes. They feel that since they pay for their education, they automatically deserve an "A" even if they are only showing "C" level understanding and work.

I just bought a car last week and it was truly and exceptional experience.
It was quick and easy and painless. I was treated politely even though the sales manager and I had a difference on the price paid.
People at the dealership who weren't even part of the sale were even trying to help me by simply being curtious and nice. Their exceptional method of doing a sale and completing through to the delivery will earn them the exceptional "5" all around. Afterall, that's what an "exceptional" rating is there for. It's for when it is truly exceptional not merely acceptable.

This is BS,maybe I should've sent my HS French teacher a nastygram for giving me a B+ instead of A+,because I feel like I deserved an A+.After all the research I've done anything short of A+ is unacceptable.For that reason my Dad didn't get me the car I wanted because I didn't get all A's.I told my French teacher about the implications of not getting an A.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by quincy

This is BS,maybe I should've sent my HS French teacher a nastygram for giving me a B+ instead of A+,because I feel like I deserved an A+.After all the research I've done anything short of A+ is unacceptable.For that reason my Dad didn't get me the car I wanted because I didn't get all A's.I told my French teacher about the implications of not getting an A.

Oui, oui!
C'est Bull merd! (my Francais sucks)

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by shadowcoder

Assumption is the mother of all fuckups. When you assume and jump into
conclusions you make a fool out of yourself because you simply don't have
the whole story neither the other side of the story for that matter.

sc.-

I think you missed the point of that particular exchange.

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

No problem, I appreciate reminders of how fortunate I am to have a 'small town' dealer that operates on the principles of long term reciprocity. It is a bit disconcerting to find myself so out of touch with the rest of the real world though.

I mean, I don't know... I bought my car at one of the largest BMW dealers in Florida, and my service advisor remembers me and my cars

[330m]

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

I mean, I don't know... I bought my car at one of the largest BMW dealers in Florida, and my service advisor remembers me and my cars

Well he would remember someone who pumped up his bonus for nothing, and feels that he should pay over the odds for a car and stroke the ego of all the sales staff, telling them what a great job they do...

Because BM dealer staff, they are so hard up and struggle to make a profit from all the nasty people who want A GOOD DEAL. (sorry to use such bad language as 'good deal')

[carjon]

Originally Posted by RPM90

I'm with you and in agreement with the reality of it.

I will, however, like to point out that many are making the assumption that BMW is screwing the dealers. Well, let's stop for a second to think about it this way. Getting all 5's means the customer felt the experience was indeed "Exceptional". Thus, as a reward BMW pays EXTRA bonus for that transaction.
It is the BMW dealership employees (mainly sales persons) who have the mistaken perception that BMW does not take 2,3, 4 seriously.
Companies use surveys and rating systems for a reason. They are on graded scales for a reason.
Thus, BMW can look at a region or state or city or whatever and make a determination regarding customer satisfaction ratings.

They could use the scores to decide where to implement a training plan in suc areas that typically score 60% of their transactions with a "4" rating.
They could also perhaps decide to provide greater field engineers in an area where service surveys indicate a large percentage of dissatisfied customers where perhaps a "2" is the norm. Thus, BMW can use the scale data to make business decisions that are greater than simply whether or nt the sales person will get a bonus on that one particular sale.
Many are being shortsighted here on how BMW may or may not be using the data they retrieve.
Many are looking at the survey soley from a "get my bonus" perspective and the assumption that BMW doesn't use the scale for more than that.

Let's give BMW, as a successful business, some credit here, and not take a simplistic look at how the survey's are used. Yes, one aspect of the survey is to see who is doing exceptional work and thus justly reward an "above and beyond" effort. Some here feel that a bonus is to be given by default by simple virture of the transaction happening, as longe as no one at the dealeship was so stupid as to actually smack the customer over the head in anger thus forcing a negative review.
It's as if every sale deserves a bonus. That's BS.

I work at a university and this attitude is prevalent in some students attitudes. They feel that since they pay for their education, they automatically deserve an "A" even if they are only showing "C" level understanding and work.

I just bought a car last week and it was truly and exceptional experience.
It was quick and easy and painless. I was treated politely even though the sales manager and I had a difference on the price paid.
People at the dealership who weren't even part of the sale were even trying to help me by simply being curtious and nice. Their exceptional method of doing a sale and completing through to the delivery will earn them the exceptional "5" all around. Afterall, that's what an "exceptional" rating is there for. It's for when it is truly exceptional not merely acceptable.

You are correct. Maybe it is the dealers screwing the sales people that is involved here. I'm only going to pay you $1 but if you get all 5's I'm going to pay you $500.
To me the real problem here is that if you know the system and you either like your sales person or need things from service etc. you will give them 5's even if they don't diserve it because you don't want them mad at you. And if it is a case as mine was where the sales person was fine but the finance guy screwed up - why should the sales person suffer. It also bugs me that they "beg" you for 5's. I've bought probably 10 BMW's from my sales guy so he always gets 5's and if finance or someone else screws up - we'll talk about it.

No system is perfect but this one isn't close.

[RadM5]

You know the reason the SA give customers a hard time is b/c it's easier and safer than giving BMWNA a hard time, ie. less risk of losing job. A university professor may not get tenure or advances due to lower rankings from students and they could lose out on a lot of money, the difference b/w non tenured and tenured faculty can be a lot. They complain to the administration, write letters, etc...Then if unhappy they LEAVE! They DO NOT write letters to the students and berate them or threaten them. There are countless examples of this "unfair" policy. Thats grade school playground bullying. I think it's time to grow up and take responsibility for your actions.

[Saintor]

The real failure is the lack of polish and German-like kind of arrogance in their customers relations. Unpleasant, to the least.

Do they think like Bush; "You are with us or against us."

My salesman put pressure to give them 5 all around. I refused. Just the fact that he pressurized me made him start lower.

[JSpira]

Originally Posted by Saintor

The real failure is the lack of polish and German-like kind of arrogance in their customers relations.

You have obv. never taken your car into a German dealer if you think dealers in North American have a German-like kind of arrogance.

Compared to German dealers, we get fairly laid back, customer friendly experiences plus for BMW NA territory full four-year maintenance and RA.

[BMW0]

Originally Posted by shadowcoder

I don't see the BMW rating system are ridiculous. It's the dealers that have
misunderstood it. And in any case they should be trying and going
above and beyond for a 5 which is what BMW wants them to do. But they
don't want to do that, yet they want a 5. Wrong. It doesn't work like that.
And BMW's system has nothing wrong with it. Every rating system has a
reward/benefit attached to it depending on the rating grade. BMW has chosen
to not have a normalized reward across the board of 1-5 but have put a
higher weight on the 5. And that is correct since that is one of their ways
in making the dealers care for their customers and always push to do
excellent job. Don't blame BMW or the rating system. Blame the dealer who
has been educated and been told about this, but still chooses to go its own
way. There are dealers out that who strive for 5, give you 5, deserve 5 and
get 5. They are worth it because they "get it". And that's what sets them
apart from the rest. Not fair to change the system. They have the means,
the resources and everything they need to get a 5 so they better get on
with it. Simple.

Thanks Shadowcoder for that well fullfilling argument and making a statement original/different from what has been said here overexhaustingly. That does make more sense to weigh the 5 heavy and have the dealerships work hard and helpfully for the customer. Although 1~5 system should be changed to; fail, moderate, or bonus$$.