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[pick333]

I'm thinking about buying snows for my 2013 135i. My search at the Tire Rack site turned up one match--Pirelli Winter Sottozero serieII RUN FLAT performance winter/snow. Is it a mistake to buy winter runflats? I thought the idea was to get away from run flats, but maybe with a snow tire it's not important. Advice?

[Chunner]

I do not think so. If you get a flat, do you want to be stuck in the snow? I have the same tires and not only did I get the runflat versions, I had the TPMS sensors installed on the winter rims as well.

[prcsa77]

pick333, I have been running Alpin PA4's for the last couple of seasons. Chunner does make a couple of very important points though; TPMS are a must, RF or not, and you don't want to be stuck. Winters in Colorado are a hit and miss; add alternative modes of transportation (second car vs DD) and your choices are going to be different. I have no experience with the P's but if you want to keep the staggered setup, that would be one way to go. I run 225/40/18's so I can rotate from one season to the next front to back in addition to rotating side to side during the winter months. My One is a daily driver; I drive to work 30mi a day, and enjoy RMP and snowshoeing and mountain driving on a regular basis. The P's may last longer and perform better in light snow and dry. The PA4 have proven to me to be a performer in our brand of weather (my driving). They seemed to be a bit temperature sensitive, in that they wore out quicker during the first season (dry) compared to the second (wet).
jmho
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[IEDEI]

NON-run flat tires are much LESS LIKELY to get a flat as compared to Runflat tires. I would not comprimise by getting run flat tires. The whole point of winter/snow tires is to get a soft winter tire and one that is able to flex and have more grip. Runflat tires are too hard already and the point of winter tires is pretty much negated by the hard compounds of runflats.

Get small diameter (17") and get some soft tires like Nokians

[JB007]

Get the nokian hakka r2 run flats.
Handle snow and ice like a charm.
In my opinion, no point looking elsewhere.

[CAVU]

Last year I put a set of Michelin runflat PA3s (225/45/17) and TPMS sensors on my winter wheels (Tire Rack Sport Edition A8s) for the reasons stated above. I found out the hard way that the ride quality of PA3 ZPs is much worse than the Bridgestone summer runflats my car came with. So now I am looking to replace the PA3 ZPs with something that 1) rides better, and 2) has better ice/snow traction. Will probably end up going non-runflat this time.

This is what the PA3/A8 combination looked like:

[Gary@TireRack]

There are some good run flat winter snow tires out there, but the Pirelli Winter Sottozero serieII tires are more biased towards handling and dry grip, giving up some snow and ice traction compared to most other winter tires. If you are in a heavy snow area, you may want to consider a more aggressive tire even if that means using non run flats.

Winter http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?a=AW7&...nter/index.jsp

[ptack]

I used to run Dunlop Wintersport 3Ds and they were great, until they discontinued them. I've been running Michelin Alpinas, but I think I'll try Dunlop 4Ds next time.

[chris82]

Originally Posted by pick333

I'm thinking about buying snows for my 2013 135i. My search at the Tire Rack site turned up one match--Pirelli Winter Sottozero serieII RUN FLAT performance winter/snow. Is it a mistake to buy winter runflats? I thought the idea was to get away from run flats, but maybe with a snow tire it's not important. Advice?

What size wheels? Maybe your search filters are too narrow. I get many more results than that from Continental, Bridgestone, etc.

[Dackelone]

BMW says to use 205/55HR17 RFT snow tires for the 135i.

One very important thing to remember when buying RFT tire is to get tires with the STAR logo on the sidewall. This signifies that the tire meets BMW specs. Those specs also include ride comfort.

The "star" logo is like the way Porsche uses N1 or N0 designations for their approved spec'd tires.

When I bought my car and needed winter tires the tires with the star logo were sold out for the "season". I ended up getting the exact same tire, but with out that star logo. Big mistake. I felt that my 17" snows rode rougher than my 18" OE RFT summer tires!

I see no reason why you should get RFT or non RFT for winter use. I think it all comes down to price. For my summer tires I went with Michelin PS3's in non RFT. I am very happy with them. I do miss the sharp precise turn in response you get with RFT's. But for 98% of normal driving the regular tires are fine. Plus I carry a full size spare tire - so RFT's are a non issue for me.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by JB007

Get the nokian hakka r2 run flats.
Handle snow and ice like a charm.
In my opinion, no point looking elsewhere.

haha me and you agree about this every year it seems. last year and this year

10000% agreed. Every 1er owner should have this tire on their car if they live in a place where it snows, IMO. They are amazing.

Mine are currently on sale in the Tri-State forum (my set for my 135is)....but i will be buying these for my 1M now....definitely.

[///Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

NON-run flat tires are much LESS LIKELY to get a flat as compared to Runflat tires. I would not comprimise by getting run flat tires. The whole point of winter/snow tires is to get a soft winter tire and one that is able to flex and have more grip. Runflat tires are too hard already and the point of winter tires is pretty much negated by the hard compounds of runflats.

Get small diameter (17") and get some soft tires like Nokians

This doesn't make sense. Run flat tires are not hard because of the compound they are hard because of the Kevlar sidewall that is designed not to collapse in the event of lost pressure within the tire. Winter tires work because the tread compound remains pliable at lower temps thus maintaining traction, irrespective of sidewall construction. The noticeable difference of a softer sidewall construction is going to be greater ride comfort at the expense of slower turn in, not less grip.

Run flats are not more likely to get a flat, if an object is going to puncture your tread it will happen to either variety. Rather, RFTs are far more likely to suffer bulges or bubbles in the sidewall due to lack of compliance when hitting hard obstacles. Such obstacles, like hard packed ice (obviously) or potholes (below surface water freezes calving asphalt above, then ripped out by traffic or snow plow) are more likely in the winter. Sidewall bulge necessitates replacement. Another issue with RFTs is that they are less likely to be repairable, particularly if driven on after pressure loss, and more expensive to replace.

This is the trade off made for the security of being able to make it to the next service centre on that cold, wintry night all alone on the side of the highway. Yes, an argument could be made that it would be better to bust out some fix-a-flat and pump because driving on that run flat will destroy it and the service centre is less likely to have another, compared to a garden variety tire. For me, I choose RFT in the winter for the convenience of being able to make my appointments even with a flat because I live in a major city so I'm not going too far and RFTs are readily available.

I think the confusion arises because everyone raves about the enhanced performance they experience when switching from factory RFT to the ever popular Michelin PSS high performance tire. That has everything to do with the tires intended objectives and tread compound choices (stick vs longevity) and not so much the particular sidewall construction.

[Freon]

I use 205/55/17 Blizzak LM25 RFT now. I previously had the same size non-RFT Dunlop Wintersport 3D. I ended up paying the premium to avoid having to deal with a flat in cold weather, and I expect they'll last me until the car is a slab of rust or I sell it. In summer I eat expensive tires too fast for that to be remotely economical and all the best performing tires are non RFT.

They seem to work just as well for what I need, and the added sidewall stiffness retains some steering feel compared to the non-RFT, especially winter tires which tend to be softer. Perhaps non-RFTs will end up being better in snow for that reason, but that's not my goal. If my winters were that bad I wouldn't even bother with the 1er. I'd buy a backup Jeep or Subaru.

[Cavpilot2k]

I run run flat snows. I will be moving away from run flats for summer but will keep them for snow. I live in New England and I love having runflat snow tires. You are so much more likely to run over an unseen object in the snow that will pierce your tire. A friend ran over an umbrella buried in the snow and took like 4 punctures from it. I was in the vehicle and had to help him change the tire in a heavy snow storm. We were both wishing he had runflats.
Get them.

[Gary@TireRack]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

A friend ran over an umbrella buried in the snow and took like 4 punctures from it.

I have to say, that is one of the strangest tire punctures I've heard of!

[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by Gary@TireRack

I have to say, that is one of the strangest tire punctures I've heard of!

Yeah, me too, until it happened.
The many folding metal spines that make up the collapsible umbrella portion can and will absolutely obliterate a tire.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by JB007

Get the nokian hakka r2 run flats.
Handle snow and ice like a charm.
In my opinion, no point looking elsewhere.

If snow performance is your only goal, they are a pretty solid choice.

[Cavpilot2k]

I have been running Goodyear Eagle Ultra Grip RFTs for three seasons (205x50r17), and while they aren't the greatest performance tire on dry pavement, they have been amazing in some pretty rough New England winters. I get around in snow as well as my GF in her Subaru with all-seasons.
When I need new ones (probably next winter) I will look into the Nokians.
My biggest problem is that I am running them on BMW 141-style wheels and I hate them.
Currently taking suggestions for 17" wheels for winter setup.
I had considered switching my 261s to winter duty when I get VMRs for summer, but I keep reading about avoiding larger, wider winters.