VSCCS Certified Engineer in Sydney

[froop]

Hello! Does anyone know of a good (read: lenient) vehicle engineer in Sydney? I'd like to get a few things engineer certified on my car like the cage and some bucket seats and would like to find someone willing to work with me to make it pass certification.

I've tried calling a few people but no luck so far. Went to see one dude today and I felt like I knew more about certification than he did and he was supposed to be the certified engineer in this stuff...

[1q2w3e4r]

Didnt you speak to Peter?

[Giveway74]

Originally Posted by froop

Hello! Does anyone know of a good (read: lenient) vehicle engineer in Sydney? I'd like to get a few things engineer certified on my car like the cage and some bucket seats and would like to find someone willing to work with me to make it pass certification.

I've tried calling a few people but no luck so far. Went to see one dude today and I felt like I knew more about certification than he did and he was supposed to be the certified engineer in this stuff...

You wont find anyone that will do the seats as it removes the airbag.
I have tried 3 people listed on the website and only 1 responded . If you find someone, do let him know he will get more business and give me a call ASAP


Also if you do the cage it gets re-classified as a 2 seat vehicle.
If you later removed the cage and want to put it back to 5 seat car they wont do it. It stays 2 seat forever apparently
Some of the EVO guys have looked into it.

It is almost easier and cheaper to try and stay out of trouble, plead ignorance, take the defect, and fine, than go through the hassle and cost.

[froop]

Originally Posted by 1q2w3e4r

Didnt you speak to Peter?

Peter and Bill told me they didn't know anyone

[froop]

Originally Posted by Giveway74

You wont find anyone that will do the seats as it removes the airbag.
I have tried 3 people listed on the website and only 1 responded . If you find someone, do let him know he will get more business and give me a call ASAP


Also if you do the cage it gets re-classified as a 2 seat vehicle.
If you later removed the cage and want to put it back to 5 seat car they wont do it. It stays 2 seat forever apparently
Some of the EVO guys have looked into it.

It is almost easier and cheaper to try and stay out of trouble, plead ignorance, take the defect, and fine, than go through the hassle and cost.

From reading the VSB 14 I'm pretty sure that it should be ok to swap a seat without an airbag and have it certified as long as it doesn't affect the supplemental restraint system. I.e, it won't affect deployment of the other airbags.

Regarding the cage, I'd be ok to deal with the penalty as it's only $169 and no demerits, however for the seats it's a $304 fine and 3 points. Double that because the seat belt mount also wouldn't be certified.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by froop

From reading the VSB 14 I'm pretty sure that it should be ok to swap a seat without an airbag and have it certified as long as it doesn't affect the supplemental restraint system. I.e, it won't affect deployment of the other airbags.

Regarding the cage, I'd be ok to deal with the penalty as it's only $169 and no demerits, however for the seats it's a $304 fine and 3 points. Double that because the seat belt mount also wouldn't be certified.

I had a look into it (REALLY WANT SOME SPARCOS UGH) last week

And one of the clauses is no removal of non-optional (standard) stuff like the airbags i thought

Hopefully i'm wrong and you find someone though!

I wonder if worst case you could find a clueless engineer that didn't know they had airbags... Wouldn't stop the defect (if so)

I mean.. With a proper racing seat, a side airbag wont touch you anyway, so in some ways it's one of those stupid laws lol

[froop]

From what I've read, if you change your seat with a factory optioned seat, it doesn't require certification as long as it doesn't downgrade any safety systems.

This however does not apply to replacing factory seats with any aftermarket seat, which definitely does need certification. There is no clause within the VSB14 specifically stating that you cannot downgrade the safety systems on the seat or seatbelt itself. The only thing it does state is that you cannot get certified if it affects the supplementary restraint system. E.g. Removal of pretensioning seatbelts or airbagged seats affecting other airbags from deploying.

If you however have seatbelt and airbag emulators it won't cause any airbag or seatbelt lights to go off and should therefore preserve all other safety systems.

[flinchy]

too tired to find the more modern documents (pretty sure i found one or two) but http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/pdfs/...ort/info68.pdf - bit old but still may be relevant if the mentioned ADR's are still in place.

again, i hope you're right

for our cars, something to do with coding 'RECA' (recaro option) keeps the other airbags still functional as far as i'm aware though.

And i 100% think it should be engineerable.. as if going a proper ADR approved bucket seat that pretty well literally locks you in place (which is basically what the whole system tries to do anyway) side to side, is less safe.. hell, if you could attach an airbag to it it would magically become legal, even if it wouldn't do anything beneficial.

[froop]

Originally Posted by flinchy

too tired to find the more modern documents (pretty sure i found one or two) but http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/pdfs/...ort/info68.pdf - bit old but still may be relevant if the mentioned ADR's are still in place.

again, i hope you're right

for our cars, something to do with coding 'RECA' (recaro option) keeps the other airbags still functional as far as i'm aware though.

And i 100% think it should be engineerable.. as if going a proper ADR approved bucket seat that pretty well literally locks you in place (which is basically what the whole system tries to do anyway) side to side, is less safe.. hell, if you could attach an airbag to it it would magically become legal, even if it wouldn't do anything beneficial.

Yeah that's a bit old. Nationally, now everyone uses the same standards which is the VSB 14.

Btw, if you want a Sparco, the pro 2000 and Sprint V are ADR approved. Unfortunately neither are suitable for me as they shoulder strap holes are like midway down my back. Stupid design...

I want to get Cobras but none are ADR approved.

Velo's are another option however as they're made in Australia and they offer ADR and FIA approved seats.

But then the issue comes down to no longer just the seat but the seat mounts, sliders and the seat belt anchorage and whether they meet ADR regulations...

[StuM5]

I gather you have found this list http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/registrati...ulletin_01.pdf

If the Cobra's don't have ADR approval then you will have to run tests on Cobra's to see if they comply with ADR 3/03.
I would cross any seats that don't hold ADR approval from my understanding the test is rather comprehensive and requires force loads, displacement loads and energy disappation tests to be applied to the seats.

Are you going to use the same OEM seatbelts but change the anchorage position? If so then at least the seatbelt will be ADR compliant but if you change the anchorage etc then get into another world of pain with ADR 4/04 and ADR 5/05.

Good luck with it!
cheers
Stuart

[Kiwi Peter]

OK Alex. this is just for you. We used him recently good thing he is up to speed with the facts. but please don't piss him off as the good guys are hard to find.

Aaron Automotive Pty Ltd
5/5-7 Yarmouth Place
Narellan NSW 2567
PH 1200527227

[Giveway74]

The belts anchor to the seat so the anchorage points will change.
I'm using bolt in version of these at the moment so the anchorage of the standard seatbelt is in a similar place to normal.
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-22...t-schnell.aspx

You also may struggle to fine a Velo seat that will fit in the cabin. My cobra is only 580mm wide at the wings and only just fits next to the b pillar with the trim removed. It is however a wide arse seat. A smaller seat may not be as wide.

[froop]

Originally Posted by Peter@Advan

OK Alex. this is just for you. We used him recently good thing he is up to speed with the facts. but please don't piss him off as the good guys are hard to find.

Aaron Automotive Pty Ltd
5/5-7 Yarmouth Place
Narellan NSW 2567
PH 1200527227

Thanks Pete, I'll give him a call.

[Giveway74]

Originally Posted by froop

Thanks Pete, I'll give him a call.

Alex let me know how you go. I'd be interested in the outcome or helping with getting certification.

My car is not a daily as you know, so it could be left with them outside of the supersprint dates if testing is required.

[froop]

Originally Posted by Giveway74

The belts anchor to the seat so the anchorage points will change.
I'm using bolt in version of these at the moment so the anchorage of the standard seatbelt is in a similar place to normal.
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-22...t-schnell.aspx

You also may struggle to fine a Velo seat that will fit in the cabin. My cobra is only 580mm wide at the wings and only just fits next to the b pillar with the trim removed. It is however a wide arse seat. A smaller seat may not be as wide.

Oh wow I didn't realise you had a cobra in your car. I test fitted a Suzuka GT in my car and it seemed to fit ok but then again my legs are shorter so the shoulder wings weren't actually as far back as the B pillar. I'm going to maybe measure up the sizes of the Suzuka GT and see if there's anything similar in size in the Velo's.

I've had a look at the Macht Schnell and VAC receptacles but I decided to go with Planted as they were significantly cheaper brackets but none of them are ADR certified.

I could get an ADR seat and side mounts and just bolt it directly to the floor but yeah, the seat belt anchorage would need to be certified which is probably even worse than trying to get the seat certified.

The only way around this that I can see is if I somehow remove the seat sliders from my stock seats (which have the seat belt anchorage on them) and bolt the side mounts directly to them. The only issue is whether or not that will work... I haven't had a look at the OEM seat construction yet to see if this is possible. I understand that I won't be able to control them but I once I have my seating position set I don't plan on moving them around.

[Giveway74]

Mine is the Suzuka pro
http://www.cobraseats.com/Suzuka-pro

I have the E87 hatch so the door is shorter. The B pillar is forward of the coupe.

Having a look the Velo GPT-1 and 2 should fit

[froop]

Just had a quick look under the seat. I'd have to take a closer look but from first glance it looks near impossible to remove the rail mechanism from the actual OEM seat...

Maybe if I can be bothered on the weekend I'll rip the seat out and have a proper look.

[Giveway74]

Don't turn the car on while you have the seat electrics disconnected.
It will throw a Seatbelt and Airbag warning which needs the dealer or someone with the right software to clear even if it is all plugged back in.

I'm yet to have the seat coded out and the warning lights reset.
Funny how you can learn to ignore stuff.

[froop]

Originally Posted by Giveway74

Don't turn the car on while you have the seat electrics disconnected.
It will throw a Seatbelt and Airbag warning which needs the dealer or someone with the right software to clear even if it is all plugged back in.

I'm yet to have the seat coded out and the warning lights reset.
Funny how you can learn to ignore stuff.

Haha yeah I know all about that. I've taken my seats in/out probably 3-4 times now. Learnt that lesson the first time lol

I had my codes removed at Advan.

[Giveway74]

Was going to get the rear control arms done soon and possiblly camber plates so will ask to get it cleared as well.

[froop]

Originally Posted by Giveway74

Was going to get the rear control arms done soon and possiblly camber plates so will ask to get it cleared as well.

I don't believe you need to get those certified. As it is seen as just an upgrade and uses all the same mounting points it should be fine. You only need to get it certified if you need to fabricate suspension mounting points or if you change the configuration of the suspension. Anything that meets or exceeds the original manufacturer's specifications are fine. I.e thicker sway bars, stiffer springs, strong shocks, etc.

Also, I don't believe we need to get all the individual engine mods certified either. As far as I know, all bolt on mods are ok (with the exception of vent to atmosphere pressure relief devices), even meth is ok as long as you meet emissions levels and the power output doesn't exceed 120% of the factory output.

I've been doing a lot of reading the past few days lol.

[Kiwi Peter]

Originally Posted by froop

Oh wow I didn't realise you had a cobra in your car. I test fitted a Suzuka GT in my car and it seemed to fit ok but then again my legs are shorter so the shoulder wings weren't actually as far back as the B pillar. I'm going to maybe measure up the sizes of the Suzuka GT and see if there's anything similar in size in the Velo's.

I've had a look at the Macht Schnell and VAC receptacles but I decided to go with Planted as they were significantly cheaper brackets but none of them are ADR certified.

I could get an ADR seat and side mounts and just bolt it directly to the floor but yeah, the seat belt anchorage would need to be certified which is probably even worse than trying to get the seat certified.

The only way around this that I can see is if I somehow remove the seat sliders from my stock seats (which have the seat belt anchorage on them) and bolt the side mounts directly to them. The only issue is whether or not that will work... I haven't had a look at the OEM seat construction yet to see if this is possible. I understand that I won't be able to control them but I once I have my seating position set I don't plan on moving them around.

Alex we will have set of used performance seats in stock as of next week complete with all wiring harness and fittings give me a ring if you are keen.