Looks aside - 135i > 235i

[new2the3]

It would be great to see a real review of a 135i vs 235i, even better would be a review with both cars having identical tires

[edisapimp]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

i think this isn't about BMW owners....because i saw this in Audi owners circles too....and i'm pretty sure the same happens on ANY car forum.

i think this ass-ish attitude is a part of 'car culture'....which is a pretty insulting thing to be a part of these days. Mindless, materialistic drivel...i've been trying to leave car culture for a while now..but i keep getting sucked in.

In my opinion (worthless as it may be), you're 100% right, but it doesn't stop at cars. You can see this in the entire world with any product you substitute for a car. If someone "has" something, it's a defense mechanism to the human ego to believe that it is the "best," for whatever reason. We, as human beings, protect ourselves and our self-esteem from believing that we've made an inferior choice, or spent money on an inferior product by finding all the possible reasons in the world to support the choice we DID make.

For example, a member of this forum who shall remain nameless spent a great deal of time and energy trying to convince the rest of us that one type of exhaust was better than the other, and why? Because it's what he had (or more precisely what he would do,) so it must be the best! We do it all the time, cars, food, clothing, shoes, tools, pets, jewelery, watches, fishing poles.

People rarely ever set their hearts on buying something substantial (like a car), and then after getting it say "Gee whiz I hate this I wish I had this."

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

i think this isn't about BMW owners....because i saw this in Audi owners circles too....and i'm pretty sure the same happens on ANY car forum.

i think this ass-ish attitude is a part of 'car culture'....which is a pretty insulting thing to be a part of these days. Mindless, materialistic drivel...i've been trying to leave car culture for a while now..but i keep getting sucked in.

It's called ‘Post Purchase Cognitive Dissonance’ (PPCD) - a process of whereby we rationalize and defend our purchase decision.
When confronted with information or opinions which may threaten our purchase decision, some people get very defensive and/or go into attack mode.
I could never understand it but was certainly on the receiving end of it back in early 2003 when we new Z4 owners were under attack from Z3 owners ( and even a few Z8 owners).

[128Convertibleguy]

Originally Posted by edisapimp

In my opinion (worthless as it may be), you're 100% right, but it doesn't stop at cars. You can see this in the entire world with any product you substitute for a car. If someone "has" something, it's a defense mechanism to the human ego to believe that it is the "best," for whatever reason.

Here's what's different about cars.

People like something like a particular tennis racket. They'll talk about it with other tennis enthusiasts, and defend their choice.

What they won't do is insult another tennis enthusiast who makes a different choice. They recognize that they have something in common, tennis, that most people don't have.

Tennis rackets, by the way, were just an example. There are many other similar cases.

The same is definitely not true among car enthusiasts. They will insult other car enthusiasts who make a different choice. How many people here have expressed respect for, say, Mustang drivers? This in spite of the fact that we have _far_ more in common with people who drive modded Mustangs (and maybe track them) than we do with civilians who drive Camrys. Or look at some of the comments here on Japanese cars and their enthusiasts.

And here we've raised it to a whole 'nother level. We rag on other BMW owners, who have cars that are, relatively, pretty damn close. 135 v 128. 135 v 235.

Originally Posted by bimmerfile

I could never understand it but was certainly on the receiving end of it back in early 2003 when we new Z4 owners were under attack from Z3 owners ( and even a few Z8 owners).

Bingo.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by NYHoustonman

Oh, certainly...

The only thing I know with certainty is that it's bigger and heavier .

BMW numbers say 132lbs advantage to the 135i. They also say 320/330 vs 300/300 for the 135i advantage 235i.

Yes the 235 is bigger. Be fun to see Top Gear do a comparo.

We can all disagree about the 135/235 its really a personal thing. The 135is is a nice fun car. I drive a 135is & am not running out to get a 235 to replace it just because I think its an improvement but I do see the 235 as an improvement.

[NYHoustonman]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

BMW numbers say 132lbs advantage to the 135i. They also say 320/330 vs 300/300 for the 135i advantage 235i.

Yes the 235 is bigger. Be fun to see Top Gear do a comparo.

We can all disagree about the 135/235 its really a personal thing. The 135is is a nice fun car. I drive a 135is & am not running out to get a 235 to replace it just because I think its an improvement but I do see the 235 as an improvement.

Definitely an improvement. I don't know that I'd consider a new 135i now that the M235i is on the market, outside of cost.

[barnsdale]

IMHO the interior in the 235i is awesome, I like how the centre console is raised up so it feels like you're in more of a cockpit of a fighter jet and the Nav system looks like a nice upgrade. I however like my 135i msport steering wheel much more.

The exterior, hands down the 135i takes the cake..they should have changed the front end a bit more to make it more aggressive similar to the M3 and M4.

Anyways - at the end of the day, when I trade in my 135i it'll probably be for a 435i for the extra space and I love the way it's designed. I'd be interested to see how the engine in it holds up compared to the N55, that's a big part of the reason why I chose a 2012 135i...time will tell if the 235/435 models are worth it to pick up CPO over the next couple of years.

I think we can all agree on something - BMW for life baby!

[killerhurtalot]

Originally Posted by NYHoustonman

Definitely an improvement. I don't know that I'd consider a new 135i now that the M235i is on the market, outside of cost.

You could just get a 135i and add a LSD, springs set, and a jb4 to it with the price difference lol... that'll pretty much guarantee better performance than a M235i...

[NYHoustonman]

Originally Posted by killerhurtalot

You could just get a 135i and add a LSD, springs set, and a jb4 to it with the price difference lol... that'll pretty much guarantee better performance than a M235i...

I'm largely there minus LSD (someday), and I agree. I like the idea of much of that work being handled by the manufacturer, though.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by killerhurtalot

You could just get a 135i and add a LSD, springs set, and a jb4 to it with the price difference lol... that'll pretty much guarantee better performance than a M235i...

You have to compare a 235 to a full option 135is for apples to apples. Not sure what the spread is, maybe a few hundred, but don't think you will have any where enough left for a full suspension rebuild.

The same basic premises still holds true, any mod you can make to the 135 you can make to the 235.

[killerhurtalot]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

You have to compare a 235 to a full option 135is for apples to apples. Not sure what the spread is, maybe a few hundred, but don't think you will have any where enough left for a full suspension rebuild.

The same basic premises still holds true, any mod you can make to the 135 you can make to the 235.

Well. a brand new 135 is pretty rare now... but when I was looking for them a couple months back (when the 2 series build your own websites came up), they were literally 5-8k below what a M235i costs with the exact same options... and even the is were still like 3-4k cheaper... You can still easily add in a JB4/LSD (maybe the LSD... depending on labor...) for that kind of a price difference...

Other than the extra intercoolers up front and has the PPK package built in... (the bmw tune and PE right?) the 135is is the exact same as the 135i... Why bother with the Performance exhaust... it's not going to make that much of a difference with a jb4 tune compared to the regular exhaust...

[killerhurtalot]

Originally Posted by NYHoustonman

I'm largely there minus LSD (someday), and I agree. I like the idea of much of that work being handled by the manufacturer, though.

:/ I really don't care for the work being handled by the "manufacturer" since other than the standard 135is set, the LSD is still done by technicians at the dealerships... those are a dime a dozen because almost every single "independent BMW shop" has factory certified technicians... (by that I mean they worked at actual BMW shops before starting their own/working at a independent)

The BMW performance tune is kind of a joke... you can add in a JB4 for cheaper (or even a Cobb) and "not void the warranty" by just setting it to map 0 or take it out before you bring it in for inspection... Don't really see the point of shelling out extra for the BMW factory tune... Almost the same with the PE...

I might even argue that some independent shops even do a better job than the dealerships because they do the LSD/springs swap and the tuning so much more often... (with the exception for the 135is since it's factory tuned)

[Qunadry]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

I am aware of what get flats can do. Have 245/35 X 275/30 Conti DW on my 335is. Out the factory door the 235 will out handle the 135. Change the tires on the 135 then change the tires on the 235 same outcome.

135IS is a secondary car so saw no need for get flat tires till the RFT die. 335is got new rubber at 1500 miles. FWIW the RFT on the 135 were better than the ones on the 335.

You can add aftermarket parts, tires etc to anything to change its performance but generally the better the base you start with the better the results.. 235 is a better base than the 135.

The M235 comes from the factory with Michelin PSS, not run-flats.

[edisapimp]

Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy

Here's what's different about cars.

People like something like a particular tennis racket. They'll talk about it with other tennis enthusiasts, and defend their choice.

What they won't do is insult another tennis enthusiast who makes a different choice. They recognize that they have something in common, tennis, that most people don't have.

Tennis rackets, by the way, were just an example. There are many other similar cases.

The same is definitely not true among car enthusiasts. They will insult other car enthusiasts who make a different choice. How many people here have expressed respect for, say, Mustang drivers? This in spite of the fact that we have _far_ more in common with people who drive modded Mustangs (and maybe track them) than we do with civilians who drive Camrys. Or look at some of the comments here on Japanese cars and their enthusiasts.

And here we've raised it to a whole 'nother level. We rag on other BMW owners, who have cars that are, relatively, pretty damn close. 135 v 128. 135 v 235.

I hear you, but again, show me a tennis racquet forum, and I'll show you someone who is bashing a guy for getting the updated version of the Yonex racquet over the version he has because the strings don't give the same feel on a cut shot. Or the guy who calls the oversized Prince racquet "cheating" because it's too big, etc.

And not many tennis racquets cost as much as cars. When the amount of money spent goes up, the feelings of defensiveness multiply exponentially.

I'll give you an example, I'm on a blackjack forum, and the guys there argue MATH... There is no arguing math. It either is, or it isn't. But they make a certain play based on a certain index, then other guys come in and bash them because the index shows a .08% advantage to making one play over the other. All blackjack players, all looking for the softest games, all hoping to make a dollar, but they argue like teenaged girls sometimes, it's usually the guys who play $2 tables and spread to $10 and think that's high-roller status who make the beefs, hehe.

Ah well. It's all about security. You can either accept the fact that different people get boners from different things, or you can't.

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Have you driven one? Its an all round better car with a much better suspension.

I have driven one, and it didn't make me smile after a first drive in the same way the E82 135i did after a first drive.

I won't argue that technically the M235 is a 'better' car, and the suspension is significantly better........


But......


There are equally things that are not better, depending on what you want from a car, and they are enough of those that made me decide to keep the 135i instead of changing it for a M235.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by killerhurtalot

Well. a brand new 135 is pretty rare now... but when I was looking for them a couple months back (when the 2 series build your own websites came up), they were literally 5-8k below what a M235i costs with the exact same options... and even the is were still like 3-4k cheaper... You can still easily add in a JB4/LSD (maybe the LSD... depending on labor...) for that kind of a price difference...

Other than the extra intercoolers up front and has the PPK package built in... (the bmw tune and PE right?) the 135is is the exact same as the 135i... Why bother with the Performance exhaust... it's not going to make that much of a difference with a jb4 tune compared to the regular exhaust...

Not sure where your numbers are from but equal up a 135is coupe was MSRP $50,250K a 235M was MSRP $50,450K

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Not sure where your numbers are from but equal up a 135is coupe was MSRP $50,250K a 235M was MSRP $50,450K

back when BOTH configurators were up on the BMW site.....i priced an M235i with the exact same spec as my 135is and the M235i was $1k cheaper.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by GeeRam

There are equally things that are not better, depending on what you want from a car, and they are enough of those that made me decide to keep the 135i instead of changing it for a M235.

I am not suggesting you change cars, I'm not. That being said a lot of people car dislike the new car because their car is now the old model.

Happens every time a new model comes out regardless of the make. The new model sucks till they buy one.

Same thing on the 3 series board. I committed a major sin going from the 335is to the 435M-Sport. But hey I drive what I like & don't seek any ones approval.

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

That being said a lot of people car dislike the new car because their car is now the old model.

You'd have to be a pretty insecure and shallow person to have that as a reason ..... IMHO.

[2tonik]

I honestly feel that the E82 was the last BMW to draw from the 80's and 90's design language that favored function over form. Other than the "pig line", the E82 is fairly purposeful and Teutonic-looking.

(For the record, I don't think the E82 is great looking - but it's not over-styled, except maybe that pig line.)

Current BMW's are far too styled for my tastes. Please get rid of the intake "nostrils" below the bumper.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by 2tonik

I honestly feel that the E82 was the last BMW to draw from the 80's and 90's design language that favored function over form. Other than the "pig line", the E82 is fairly purposeful and Teutonic-looking. Current BMW's are far too styled for my tastes. Please get rid of the intake "nostrils" below the bumper.

EXACTLY! the E82 is an old-school looking BMW.

that being, said, i really love the new F80 M3. looks amazing....unlike the horribly japanese looking 2-series.

[2tonik]

PS - I'm sure this won't find favor with many (any) forum members, but I'd lose the ridiculously overdone headlights as well. They don't make the car go any faster or handle better. Take the money that is going to headlights and put it towards an LSD.