335 Stage 2 kills IS-F

[frimmelnojerz]

quicker not faster.

[135i_TT]

Originally Posted by Markoni

There's no insult there. Just common sense. Can you honestly say that if fun and performance were your only criteria you would actually buy a BMW over any number of more fun, better performing, purpose-built sports cars? If so, then you're drinking too much of the Kool-Aid. The BMW is a compromise. It's an everyday car that's fun to drive. It's not the be-all end-all of performance driving.

Wooooow...
Yes thats a direct insult idk how you can say its not..
i think im done with all this stupid arguing.. some people just wont ever get it :roundel:
you have your opinion and others have their own.. think wat you want and have fun with that.

[I-One-Da?]

Originally Posted by Markoni

What exactly are you insulted at? The fact that I said you can get a better performing, more fun vehicle than a BMW if fun and performance are your only criteria? You'd have to be pretty brainwashed not to believe that. People who want pure driving pleasure out of a vehicle get a pure sports car, not a sedan or 2+2 coupe. So what exactly are you insulted at?

I am going to have to fully agree with Markoni on this matter. If fun and performance were your only criteria no one here would buy a BMW, Lexus, Merc, or any other "Luxury" brand. BMW's motto is "The ultimate driving experience" and not the "Ultimate track experience". They build their cars to perform well but also to be a very pleasurable driving experience. Track cars don't need heated seats and navigation:biggrin: People buy BMW's to spoil themselves in rich interior materials and features while keeping that sense of performance. This is not a insult to BMW at all and if you as a BMW owner takes this as an insult that in its self is an insult to BMW IMO:iono: Taking this as an insult would be like telling BMW that they excel in fun and performance but their sense of build quality and rich material like the Boston leather suck.

Case in point, my S2000 has a fun factor much much higher then that of my 135i. It is also a better performer on the track then the 135i especially if you start modding the two cars to become track cars. Can the 135i perform great on the track, YES. Which one is a better overall driving experience, the 135i hands down:w00t:

[I-One-Da?]

BTW- 14.5 1/4 mile for the IS-F is a horrible time. I have run a 14.8 in my fully stock S2k. I would expect the IS-F to pull better times then this even with a bad driver so I am going to call :bs:

[guardianangel3290]

Originally Posted by Markoni

There's no insult there. Just common sense. Can you honestly say that if fun and performance were your only criteria you would actually buy a BMW over any number of more fun, better performing, purpose-built sports cars? If so, then you're drinking too much of the Kool-Aid. The BMW is a compromise. It's an everyday car that's fun to drive. It's not the be-all end-all of performance driving.

wow your wrong

i bought my bimmer because it has an amazing engine and its a gorgeous car. i have an old civic for commuting so yes i can honestly say that i bought a BMW for the sole purpose of having fun.

what would you suggest we buy instead? a mitsushitty? Subaru?
the 135i outperforms both evos and sti's in a strait line so what "pure sports car" are you talking about?
not to mention BMW by far has superior build quality and a better warranty than its performance minded competitors in the 30k-40k price range.

[I-One-Da?]

Originally Posted by guardianangel3290

wow your wrong

i bought my bimmer because it has an amazing engine and its a gorgeous car. i have an old civic for commuting so yes i can honestly say that i bought a BMW for the sole purpose of having fun.

what would you suggest we buy instead? a mitsushitty? Subaru?
the 135i outperforms both evos and sti's in a strait line so what "pure sports car" are you talking about?
not to mention BMW by far has superior build quality and a better warranty than its performance minded competitors in the 30k-40k price range.

I think he said fun and performance would be the only factors:iono:Straight line speed is not exactly "performance" but one small test in overall performance. Both an STi and an Evo are more track friendly then the 135i. Not to say that the 135i can't hold its own on a track but the Evo and STi are going to be a better bet for the track.

That being said, I would not choose either of those cars if fun and performance were my only factors in buying a car. I would go for an Elise or Exige for sure. Altough I would be hard pressed not to buy another S2000 but I am biased there:wink:

[GQ 135i]

Not bad.

[sebaflex]

Originally Posted by DC5TC

A little over 300whp and 220 ftlbs torque...
Midrange power was great, not as torquey as the 1, but most certainly gets to the end of the line fast.

wow 300whp is not bad... what supercharger did you have, Comptech or Jackson? what other mods, cams??

just asking cuz my neighbor is gonna supercharge his rsx-s this month..

[135i_TT]

Originally Posted by Markoni

I-One-Da,

Exactly my point. If fun and performance are your only factors, no one would even look at the 1-series, much less BMW's less sporty options. S2000s, Miatas, Evos, STIs, Corvettes, etc. etc. all offer more fun, excitement, and performance than a 1-series. Where they fall short is in the other criteria: luxury, build quality, amenities, badge appeal, etc.

There's no car in the BMW lineup that someone would choose based solely on fun and performance. Even if you look at BMW's sportiest car, the M3 - for that money you can get a Lotus Exige S which is leaps and bounds ahead of the M3 in fun and performance.

How exactly does that translate as a rag against BMW when the new M3 was on top of my consideration list for quite a long time as was the 1-series? Why did I consider either of them? Well, I was looking for a fun and sporty car BUT I wanted it to be practical and useful as well. That is the reason people get these cars. If all I wanted was fun and sporty I wouldn't bother with either of them. The cars I mentioned above are much sportier and more fun than either the 1 or M3, and they're a hell of a lot cheaper too.

Dude you should really think before you write.. idk where your getting your prices from when you say "they're hell of a lot cheaper" excluding the Miata lol... a Honda S2000 base price is $$34,795 which is VERY overpriced for what you get if you ask me, the Evolution X base price is $32,990, the STI base price is 34,995 and a Vette's base price is $49,415 so i really dont understand how you can say something like that lol. And youd be amazed how many people WOULD buy a BMW solely on fun and performance so idk how you can talk as if your talking for everyone.. your not the only one in this world you have your own opinion.. you also said all those cars you listed "offer more fun, excitement, and performance than a 1-series" again thats another opinion of yours, i find many BMW's waaaay more fun,excitement and performance then those cars you listed especially over the Miata i think the only one id really say that about is the Vette.. one last opinion of yours "The cars I mentioned above are much sportier and more fun than either the 1 or M3"
if youd give me proof that EVERYONE thinks that then id believe you but you cant so again, your only stating your opinion and i respect that but i think many of us agree you did insult BMW with your statement before.

[135i_TT]

Originally Posted by Markoni

TT,

Are you really trying to say that the 1's wallowy ride which EVERYONE has been complaining about is sportier and more fun than riding on rails in an S2000?

That ride is the reason I'm not in a 1 right now. If it handled like the M3, I'd own one by now, but the ride is very soft and cushy for a car that bills itself as having an M-tuned suspension.

The power is phenomenal, but I got up to 50-60mph on the streets and it just felt unsafe, as if I were floating over the road instead of gripping it. In contrast, I took a looping highway on-ramp in the S2000 at roughly that speed and I felt like I had flypaper for wheels. Completely different experience.

For you to say that you prefer the feel of the 1 over the S2K is one thing, but to imply that it's actually sportier or better performing is just dishonest.

Like ive said before you Honda freaks are so annoying sometimes thinking yall are so great lol. Yes Id pick the 135i over the S2000 ANY DAY! Don't call me dishonest! You like Honda obviously and you think its sportier and a better performer so of course youd say that im being dishonest but again your only giving your opinion saying the S2K is sporiter, more exciting and a better performer but my opinion is Yes the 135i is better then the S2K in all those categories and more id pick the 135i before the S2K ANY DAY OF MY LIFE.

The End.

[BMWMensch]

Markoni you are a classic troll, why come on this forum anyway? Are you here to change someone's opinion because the most you will do is polarize opinion. You are all over the place with your arguments, reliability, A to B, fun and performance. If you want a sportscar get an ariel atom, beats all of your above mentioned cars. Are you here to spread your knowledge? or just play devil's advocate?

Some people thought the 1 series offered the best "compromise" as you call it and that's why they are on this forum now. You don't think so, well ok but there is no way you can prove it. Note that compromise itself is a very vague word and you are just twisting it every which way.

Keep in mind that most people on here are the casual driver not the boy racer type. Very few people track their cars here and even fewer have taken professional track lessons.

Brand name obviously weighs heavily with the general population or else Toyota wouldn't have created "Lexus" to compete with luxury marques such as BMW, Mercedes, etc. No one is above the name game.

[guardianangel3290]

Originally Posted by I-One-Da?

I think he said fun and performance would be the only factors:iono:

fun and performance were the only factors, but what dumbass buys a car without taking a look at anything beyond those two aspects?
if your going to buy a 35k toy its kinda nice to have some peice of mind. . . right???

and strait line speed may only be one small aspect of a cars performance but its the only aspect i care about.
(thats why i made a point to say it out performs the japs "in a strait line")

oh and getting a lotus was an option but i do love turbos haha

[135i_TT]

Ive driven a few 135i's and I have no complaints and I've done my research and comparisons for months. And I have perfect peace of mind with my BMW and im sure a lot of others here do as well otherwise we wouldn't have them lol.

Just like "BMWMensch" said why come to this forum anyway?

You should be in a Honda or Toyota forum since like them so much and you think so little of BMW's.

There's really absolutely no point of you being here.

[guardianangel3290]

Originally Posted by Markoni

Then, may I ask, why did you buy a 3400+ lbs car with rear seats and a sloshy suspension? Did you think those things ADD to the performance?


Is it your contention that a first-year model turboed BMW offers more peace of mind than a Honda S2000?

so a back seat takes away from performance?. . geez, somebody better tell all the EVO and STi drivers they arent in performance minded vehicles. .
and what NEW, turbocharged car would you recomend for under 35k that outperforms the 135i (in a strait line) with the same or comparable build quality????
your like a a god damn politician

and yes, anything gives me more piece of mind than a honda. BMW has one of the best warranty programs around so if anything goes wrong with my new toy they'll fix it for me.

since your so in love with ricers why dont you just go rub one out while your watching the fast and the furious and leave the rest of us out of it.

[F82SO2]

stock vs a tuned car.. hmmm.. a tough one

[I-One-Da?]

Originally Posted by guardianangel3290

and yes, anything gives me more piece of mind than a honda. BMW has one of the best warranty programs around so if anything goes wrong with my new toy they'll fix it for me.

since your so in love with ricers why dont you just go rub one out while your watching the fast and the furious and leave the rest of us out of it.

BMW's warranty is great. I am really glad I have it with my 1er since it would have cost me a lot of money so far if I did not have it. My 1er has been in the shop 6 times now for misfiring and BMW still does not know whats going on. Of course I do believe that every car company has its fair share of lemons but some have less then others. We all know for a fact that Toyota and Honda have some of the best reliability in the market as well as great warranties. Their warranties just don't pay for things like oil changes:wink:

Your last comment just shows your level of maturity and also shows that you yourself are a fanboi and not a car enthusiast. I own both the 135i and an S2000 right now and have obviously driven both extensively. I would have a hard time understanding why anyone would even compare the fun factor in the S2000 to that of the 135i. The S2000 is an amazing machine. If you magazine race it with the 135i it falls a little short but if you have driven both like I have you will know that the S2000 is a bargain at its MSRP. No car offers its level of performance per dollar with the exception of maybe a corvette or a lotus. Now the 135i is one of the best cars I have driven overall. For being a DD it blows the S2k out of the water. Of course its torque is nice too:thumbup:

What piece of mind are you talking about? Have you even seen an S2000? They have all the creature comforts you "need" and none you don't. Plus, its a Honda:iono:

Anyways, the point to all of this debate was that it is in no way an insult to say that BMW would not be the first choice for people that were looking for a car that was fun and performance oriented and had no other needs. BMW's focus on much more then that and also are very good at making sure their vehicles are fun and performance oriented. Either way it is all relative to what you think is "fun". If hitting the autobahn at 140mph is fun for you then the 135i (with some suspension mods to keep it from floating) would be a better choice then the S2000. If legally having fun on public roads is fun for you then the S2000 is by far a better fit. You can be going 30mph in an S2000 and still have that feeling of speed. The 135i is just so buttery smooth that 30mph feels like you are at a stop. Is this an insult to BMW, HELL NO! That goes to show how much R&D they put in to find that perfect balance of performance and comfort. The S2000 will shake you apart on rough roads but it holds a line better then any stock vehicle I have ever driven with the exception of the Miata.

Anyways, bottom line is that BMW is an amazing car company and makes some amazing cars that cater to our more refined needs. The "ricer" companies like you have mentioned make great cars as well and sales show that. Get off your high horse and do some research before you start putting down an entire car company because there are a few out there that "rice" out their Honda's. Like I have never seen a "riced out" BMW before Just take a look at Fibreoptix 3 series if you want to see one:biggrin:

Back OT- I would pick the 335i over the IS-F myself:iono:

[135i_TT]

First off I-One-Da if you wana call "guardianangel3290" i think you should call yourself and everyone of us on here imature bc both you and markoni are doing the name calling game saying "my honda's better then your BMW and every other car" and all the rest of us are defending our cars that we love. So both you and everyone else here are being real imature, get over the dumb Honda scene theyre overated and overpriced for what you get! Who cares if it's a Honda, since it is a Honda that gives me a better reason NOT to buy it, i dont want to be driving some brand name that half the population drives. YOUR Opinion is that your not insulting BMW but all the rest of us say otherwise so shut the hell up already, dont apologize just realize that you are insulting BMW, I can have more fun in the BMW than you can in some S2K in a track, autobahn or on public roads so dont tell me some honda is a better fit. And idk about you but if a S2K shakes you apart on rough roads then i dont find that sporty or performance like in any way.. And to correct you there arent "a few out there that rice out their Honda's" there's A LOT who do so prbly 30% of the 60% that people drive them do on the other hand there is not many BMW's who are riced out. Go somewhere else and inist that Honda is the best blah blah blah youll just get laughed at and debated with and you wont ever win the debate. Have fun with that.

[I-One-Da?]

Originally Posted by 135i_TT

First off I-One-Da if you wana call "guardianangel3290" i think you should call yourself and everyone of us on here imature bc both you and markoni are doing the name calling game saying "my honda's better then your BMW and every other car" and all the rest of us are defending our cars that we love. So both you and everyone else here are being real imature, get over the dumb Honda scene theyre overated and overpriced for what you get! Who cares if it's a Honda, since it is a Honda that gives me a better reason NOT to buy it, i dont want to be driving some brand name that half the population drives. YOUR Opinion is that your not insulting BMW but all the rest of us say otherwise so shut the hell up already, dont apologize just realize that you are insulting BMW, I can have more fun in the BMW than you can in some S2K in a track, autobahn or on public roads so dont tell me some honda is a better fit. And idk about you but if a S2K shakes you apart on rough roads then i dont find that sporty or performance like in any way.. And to correct you there arent "a few out there that rice out their Honda's" there's A LOT who do so prbly 30% of the 60% that people drive them do on the other hand there is not many BMW's who are riced out. Go somewhere else and inist that Honda is the best blah blah blah youll just get laughed at and debated with and you wont ever win the debate. Have fun with that.

It is hilarious to me how narrow minded some people can be. Did you even read my post?:iono: How and when did I say that Honda was better then anything else? I said that out of any of the vehicles I have driven the S2k is by far the most exilerating to drive.

I also said that the 135i is the best car overall out of any car I have ever driven so please tell me how I am saying that Honda is better then all.

To be honest I also have a WRX and I think that the AWD system Subaru's have is unsurpassed. I can not break that car loose in any weather even if I tried. For winter duty here in Central Oregon not many cars are better on the road then a Subaru in my opinion. That is of course only out of the cars I have driven in the snow.

Besides calling him a fanboi where have I called any one names? Do you even know what a fanboi is? If so, you would realize that so far him and yourself are perfect examples of what one is. Neither one of you have had anything positive to say about any other cars besides BMW. Have you driven anything besides a BMW? And can you honestly tell me that you think BMW is superior to all other car makers in every category there is?

I love cars, not Honda, not BMW, not Chevy, but cars. I realize that there are benefits to some brands and there are also some fallbacks to those same brands as well. I :respekt: what good things BMW, Honda, Toyota, etc bring to the market and also see where these companies fall short. Honda for example has been sitting on the same technology for the S2k for almost 10 years now with no real improvements. In 1999 the S2k was ahead of its time in terms of performance but now it is falling behind. Don't even get me started on the NSX

I have good and bad things to say about almost every car maker out there. Do you? If you don't respect Honda for what they have brought to the market and for what they stand for maybe you should do some research. There is a reason there are so many Honda's on the road. Although that is one of the reasons I decided to get a 1er and try to get rid of the S2k. I like having something that is unique just like you. It does not mean that a Honda Civic is not a great car just because there are a million of them on the road. Again, there is a reason for it.

There is not a single model of Toyota that I would ever consider buying right now. Their designs are too boring for my taste. Does this mean I don't respect Toyota for the breakthroughs they have made in the market? No. They found a niche and conquered it.

There is also way too many 3 series on the road. That is the reason I did not get a 335i even though I like the look of the 335i coupe better than the 135i. It also had to do with the fact that I like a smaller package that is more easily tossable. I still :respekt: what BMW has done with the 3 series over the years.

The difference between me and you is that I drive a car before I make myself look stupid and spit out remarks like the Honda ricer crap you wrote. My words are from actual experience. Are yours? Have you driven an S2000 enough to make a comment about it?

Have you ever driven a TRUE sports car? If so you would know why the S2k is rough on the street and why an Exige will shake you apart if you were to try and daily drive one. I should also note that my S2k is on coilovers with high spring rates so mine is much more rough then a stock one. A stock S2k rides about the same as a 135i on the stock runflats.

I am not standing up for Markoni because there are a lot of thing he writes that I do not agree with. But I do agree with him when he says that BMW is about more then just fun and performance. They are into creating an overall great package for those that like the finer things in life. And again, if you take this as an insult as a BMW owner you have failed to understand what BMW is all about.

Carry on...

[BMWMensch]

:roundel::roundel:
This forum carries this icon for a reason. Expect heavy bias throughout the week with a 60% chance of a "bmw lovefest" on the weekends.

Quite frankly I love mine so....
:roundel::roundel:

I think we need more forum nazis

[I-One-Da?]

Originally Posted by BMWMensch

:roundel::roundel:
This forum carries this icon for a reason. Expect heavy bias throughout the week with a 60% chance of a "bmw lovefest" on the weekends.

Quite frankly I love mine so....
:roundel::roundel:

I think we need more forum nazis

Amen!

I agree with that 100%. Of course we are all going to be biased towards our 1ers and BMW. This does not mean however that saying all x brand suck just because you love your BMW is not immature:iono:

I'm done:roundel:

[guardianangel3290]

Originally Posted by I-One-Da?

BMW's warranty is great. I am really glad I have it with my 1er since it would have cost me a lot of money so far if I did not have it. My 1er has been in the shop 6 times now for misfiring and BMW still does not know whats going on. Of course I do believe that every car company has its fair share of lemons but some have less then others. We all know for a fact that Toyota and Honda have some of the best reliability in the market as well as great warranties. Their warranties just don't pay for things like oil changes:wink:

Your last comment just shows your level of maturity and also shows that you yourself are a fanboi and not a car enthusiast. I own both the 135i and an S2000 right now and have obviously driven both extensively. I would have a hard time understanding why anyone would even compare the fun factor in the S2000 to that of the 135i. The S2000 is an amazing machine. If you magazine race it with the 135i it falls a little short but if you have driven both like I have you will know that the S2000 is a bargain at its MSRP. No car offers its level of performance per dollar with the exception of maybe a corvette or a lotus. Now the 135i is one of the best cars I have driven overall. For being a DD it blows the S2k out of the water. Of course its torque is nice too:thumbup:

What piece of mind are you talking about? Have you even seen an S2000? They have all the creature comforts you "need" and none you don't. Plus, its a Honda:iono:

Anyways, the point to all of this debate was that it is in no way an insult to say that BMW would not be the first choice for people that were looking for a car that was fun and performance oriented and had no other needs. BMW's focus on much more then that and also are very good at making sure their vehicles are fun and performance oriented. Either way it is all relative to what you think is "fun". If hitting the autobahn at 140mph is fun for you then the 135i (with some suspension mods to keep it from floating) would be a better choice then the S2000. If legally having fun on public roads is fun for you then the S2000 is by far a better fit. You can be going 30mph in an S2000 and still have that feeling of speed. The 135i is just so buttery smooth that 30mph feels like you are at a stop. Is this an insult to BMW, HELL NO! That goes to show how much R&D they put in to find that perfect balance of performance and comfort. The S2000 will shake you apart on rough roads but it holds a line better then any stock vehicle I have ever driven with the exception of the Miata.

Anyways, bottom line is that BMW is an amazing car company and makes some amazing cars that cater to our more refined needs. The "ricer" companies like you have mentioned make great cars as well and sales show that. Get off your high horse and do some research before you start putting down an entire car company because there are a few out there that "rice" out their Honda's. Like I have never seen a "riced out" BMW before Just take a look at Fibreoptix 3 series if you want to see one:biggrin:

yea but how many riced out civics do you see on a daily basis? now have many riced out bimmers do you see on a daily basis?
its a stereotype for a reason.


This is my brothers car, how many bimmers do you see around suburbia that look like this? (this car is loud as shit and tops out at 115)


and to be honest i kinda wish my 135i wasnt a bimmer. do you have any idea how many dirty looks i get for driving a BMW at my age.
Im anything but a badge whore.
if Kia wouldve made the 135i then i'd be rocking a kia right now.
(my daily driver is a honda actually)

im just getting iratated because you and that other guy are arguing MY reasons for buying MY car.
I bought MY car becasue it was the fastest, best built, best warrantied, and most fun i could find.
F*** s2000's
YOU thinking YOUR s2000 is amazing and better than the 135i is YOUR opinion. It may handle better around a track but it is certainly not faster stock by any stretch of the imagination. The 135i is faster than the s2000 in a strait line which was my only criteria.
how can you argue that i settled for getting a 1er instead an s2000's when an s2000's 0-60 is slow as shit.
i dont car how much it grips.

now, this is MY opinion

and i may be immature (kinda comes with the territory when your 18) but Markoni hasnt been back so i guess he took my advice :wink: lol

[I-One-Da?]

Originally Posted by guardianangel3290

yea but how many riced out civics do you see on a daily basis? now have many riced out bimmers do you see on a daily basis?
its a stereotype for a reason.


This is my brothers car, how many bimmers do you see around suburbia that look like this? (this car is loud as shit and tops out at 115)


and to be honest i kinda wish my 135i wasnt a bimmer. do you have any idea how many dirty looks i get for driving a BMW at my age.
Im anything but a badge whore.
if Kia wouldve made the 135i then i'd be rocking a kia right now.
(my daily driver is a honda actually)

im just getting iratated because you and that other guy are arguing MY reasons for buying MY car.
I bought MY car becasue it was the fastest, best built, best warrantied, and most fun i could find.
F*** s2000's
YOU thinking YOUR s2000 is amazing and better than the 135i is YOUR opinion. It may handle better around a track but it is certainly not faster stock by any stretch of the imagination. The 135i is faster than the s2000 in a strait line which was my only criteria.
how can you argue that i settled for getting a 1er instead an s2000's when an s2000's 0-60 is slow as shit.
i dont car how much it grips.

now, this is MY opinion

and i may be immature (kinda comes with the territory when your 18) but Markoni hasnt been back so i guess he took my advice :wink: lol

All I ask is to read what you just wrote and then scroll back up to what I wrote and tell me who is off base here:wink:

I never said you made a bad decision buying the 135i. In fact I said the opposite. The 135i is the best all around car I have ever driven and its torque is amazing which is why it will blow most cars away in a strait line race.

I did not say the S2000 was better then the 135i. I said it was more fun to drive at safe speeds on public roads. Drive one and you will see what I am talking about:wink:



BTW- Your brothers civic is horrible:biggrin: Just because there are a bunch of ricer tools out there doing things like this to Civics and accords does not mean that a civic or an accord is not a great car. It might not be a speed demon but it is a great value and has great mpg's. I would say the same thing about a Corolla or a Camry:iono: Not everyone is an 18 year old looking for a way to illegally race on the streets and put everyone else on the road at riskAt least you can say you beat your brothers civic though