[SpeedFreak!]

Originally Posted by Tine

Yes, Scott is my primary source. I have nothing to hide.
He also participate in CarSpyShots forums.

Among various "sources" on the existing automotive forums Scott has the best scoring of true info posted by far.

I'm not saying he is always right, but he usually is. And if he claims turbo engine will be featured and premiered in E92 3-series Coupe, I definitely believe him.

I also have a source at BMW Slovenia, and I know what info dealers get. A product plan is surely not the thing. A senior managers at BMW NA for sure, but not the dealers.

After the E90 brochure leak BMW are making records of everyone with access to such a documents. Hence leaking an official document (like official product plan) has become almost impossible and "suicidal".

I'm not aware of what kind of document does SpeedFreak's source posses, but it is definitely NOT an official product plan.

And the only official product plans list new models, versions, engines etc. for a year or more in advance. Other documents / lists with such info are not official, are based on rumours, and most important: they are FAKE. Pure rumours.

Again: I rather belive to someone from BMW AG than to some US dealer.

Tine... with all due respect... I genuinely believe we are talking about two different markets. Both you and Scott are from outside of the US. Things are different here, plain and simple.

My sources are solid... and have to do with production planning for the end of MY06 as well as the coming MY07.

Believe what you want... the cool thing is that this permanent record will be here for future review. We shall see.

One more thing, people... like I mentioned earlier... I wouldn't put it past BMW to try and cloud the flow of information.

[Tine]

OK, we are eagerly awaiting "The clash of the sources" ...

In the end both could emerge as winners.

[SpeedFreak!]

Originally Posted by Tine

OK, we are eagerly awaiting "The clash of the sources" ...

In the end both could emerge as winners.

Agreed!

In the mean time... enjoy the road, fellow enthusiast.



It will be a pleasure discussing this with you again.

[Brett]

Originally Posted by Tine

In the end both could emerge as winners.

Uhh... how?

SpeedFreak claims the 4series coupe & Hardtop Convertible will happen along with a different 3series coupe & Softtop Convertible.

SpeedFreak claims the 335 will not be Turbo, Scott says it will be Turbo.

Clearily, something is wrong. Scott seems to be a more direct source, but Speedfreak may have multiple sources???

I dunno, at this point all I can say is I am PO'ed. I want my 3-Series Hardtop! I could careless whether its a 325/328/330/335. All I know is I don't want no 4-Series where they charge $10-$20k extra just for a different badge!

-Brett

[SpeedFreak!]

Originally Posted by Brett

Uhh... how?

SpeedFreak claims the 4series coupe & Hardtop Convertible will happen along with a different 3series coupe & Softtop Convertible.

SpeedFreak claims the 335 will not be Turbo, Scott says it will be Turbo.

Clearily, something is wrong. Scott seems to be a more direct source, but Speedfreak may have multiple sources???

I dunno, at this point all I can say is I am PO'ed. I want my 3-Series Hardtop! I could careless whether its a 325/328/330/335. All I know is I don't want no 4-Series where they charge $10-$20k extra just for a different badge!

-Brett

Tine's position is a reiteration of my original position. It was understood since early this year that what Tine outlined (including the Turbo) would happen. Up until a few days ago... I believed the very same thing. In many ways... I wouldn't mind it at all if he turns out to be right.

Please allow me to correct a couple of things you said:

As I understand it... the 3 and 4 series will co-exist... but the 4 series will come out later then the 3 series coupe/convertible.

Scott is in Germany... hardly a reliable source for the US market. It also makes me wonder if he's a plant.

I still think you're going to get your hard-top, even though I have been told something to the contrary... I will know more in a couple of days.

One more thing... I am certain that the difference between the 3 series and the 4 series would be significantly more then a badge. Just relax... have a drink on me... and let's wait and see. We have some very exciting years ahead of us! :rocks:

[SCA]

Originally Posted by SpeedFreak!

One more thing, people... like I mentioned earlier... I wouldn't put it past BMW to try and cloud the flow of information.

Is the Admin able to confirm that BMW NA (a) surfs here and (b) post here?

[Xens]

Damn this thread is still here? 335 twin turbo 400bhp at the price of 330, great fabulous fantastic absolutely incredible! Can we move on now?

[Tine]

Scott's latest info on 4-series was that the board make a vote about it, and 4-series idea was outvoted. Marketing people were against it. So E92 Coupe and E93 folding hard top Cabrio will be still badged 3-series.

4-series is now registred label, and is waiting to badge possible future product which is undefined yet. But it is sure the 4-series will not be coupe or cabrio. (Unless BMW change their mind again in 7-8 years when next gen. 3er Coupe is to be launched.)

Since Scott is much more informed on corporate level, this info is 100% true.

I agree he do not know details about particular markets, but he surely knows what is in development and what is not. 3.5L I6 engine is NOT.

But you might be right on "328i" - but not as MY 2007. It's well known that 325i and 330i feature same engine, just differently tuned: one produces 215bhp, the other 255 / 262bhp. So everything in between those numbers is expected to appear in future "328i" or whatever it will be badged (with DI upgrade). Even the 330i output could be upgraded a bit. But 335i is the additional model - a bridge to M3, not a substitute for 330i.

If 330i is canceled - as you are suggesting - and 328i is to produce 235bhp, then it will be HUGE gap between 328i and >300bhp 335i.
And that fact speaks against you and your source.

[Brett]

Originally Posted by SCA

Is the Admin able to confirm that BMW NA (a) surfs here and (b) post here?

From what I heard this is a known fact. BMW does occassionally plant seeds as well. They supposingly did this with the E90 before it was released.

Originally Posted by SpeedFreak

One more thing... I am certain that the difference between the 3 series and the 4 series would be significantly more then a badge. Just relax... have a drink on me... and let's wait and see. We have some very exciting years ahead of us!

Fair nuff. A drink doesn't sound like a half bad idea anyway.

-Brett

[SCA]

Originally Posted by Brett

From what I heard this is a known fact. BMW does occassionally plant seeds as well. They supposingly did this with the E90 before it was released.



Fair nuff. A drink doesn't sound like a half bad idea anyway.

-Brett

Hmm...

BMW NA if you're reading this thread or mine regarding my ordered 325i, It's a girl or Canceling Order, I'd like to know what is going on with my order (4 days in QC) and why the toll-free info is up-to-date for everyone else except me? Thanks a bunch! I'd seriously love you guys forever!


I know...nothing will come from it, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[SpeedFreak!]

Originally Posted by Tine

Scott's latest info on 4-series was that the board make a vote about it, and 4-series idea was outvoted. Marketing people were against it. So E92 Coupe and E93 folding hard top Cabrio will be still badged 3-series.

4-series is now registred label, and is waiting to badge possible future product which is undefined yet. But it is sure the 4-series will not be coupe or cabrio. (Unless BMW change their mind again in 7-8 years when next gen. 3er Coupe is to be launched.)

Since Scott is much more informed on corporate level, this info is 100% true.

I agree he do not know details about particular markets, but he surely knows what is in development and what is not. 3.5L I6 engine is NOT.

But you might be right on "328i" - but not as MY 2007. It's well known that 325i and 330i feature same engine, just differently tuned: one produces 215bhp, the other 255 / 262bhp. So everything in between those numbers is expected to appear in future "328i" or whatever it will be badged (with DI upgrade). Even the 330i output could be upgraded a bit. But 335i is the additional model - a bridge to M3, not a substitute for 330i.

If 330i is canceled - as you are suggesting - and 328i is to produce 235bhp, then it will be HUGE gap between 328i and >300bhp 335i.
And that fact speaks against you and your source.

Just so the record is perfectly clear:

The way you talk about the 4 series is in perfect context with the original plan to replace all 2 doors with even number badging. That plan has been dead for a very long time. Fortunately the marketing dept. made their case that it would have been extremely stupid to mess with the 3 series brand identity in that way. Especially as it pertains to the M3. The future of the 4 series is now separate from the 3 series. It's not a replacement... it's a completely separate car. Like I have said over and over again... a baby 6 series. High luxury... 300-400lbs heavier then a 3 series coupe/convertible... a very different car. I believe we will see a 435Ci/435Cic/M4 within the next year or so with production happening in either 2007 or 2008.

There is nothing that you can say at this point that could possibly prove that Scott is "much more informed on corporate levels and is 100% correct." How can you possibly say with 100% certainty that his European corporate information is better then my US corporate information. It makes no sense at all. At this point... none of us are able to post "official" BMW documents because we love working for BMW and don't want to be forced to leave... if you catch my drift... so we are going to have to sit back and wait for something "official" that we can all accept as fact. I know I'll be happy to share as soon as I am able... until then, all I can do is tell you about what I see and hear through conversations.

If it makes you happy... I guess I could always keep all this to myself. I don't think that would be as much fun... but I guess I could always do that.

[lux.sh]

ahahahhah we are so screwed. time to put up my 330i in autotrader now.

[ZenDriver]

Speed:

Is there ever any concern within BMW that all this niche-chasing might not be good for the long term of the company?

There was a time when buying a BMW basically ment choosing a series (3, 5, 7) and then choosing an engine... now we have 2 SUVs, a roadster and a hard top coupe sports car, some strange crossover things on the way and (apparently) a minivan. Now you're talking about a 4 series?

The X3, while it might sell well as the bottom of the barrel lease special, is an embarrassment to everything BMW stands for. Does BMW really wish to continue with projects that put vehicles like that on the road?

[SpeedFreak!]

Originally Posted by ZenDriver

Speed:

Is there ever any concern within BMW that all this niche-chasing might not be good for the long term of the company?

There was a time when buying a BMW basically ment choosing a series (3, 5, 7) and then choosing an engine... now we have 2 SUVs, a roadster and a hard top coupe sports car, some strange crossover things on the way and (apparently) a minivan. Now you're talking about a 4 series?

The X3, while it might sell well as the bottom of the barrel lease special, is an embarrassment to everything BMW stands for. Does BMW really wish to continue with projects that put vehicles like that on the road?

Oooo... careful... if you use the mini'"v" word again... BMW might nuke this entire site.

No... and as I look things over, I have to admit that it looks brilliant. Their plan is simple... expand their market as much as possible with out taking customers away from their other models. The X3... is still a BMW and dives amazingly well when compared with other vehicles in its segment. I think you will see a serious effort to put the X3 on the map and to gain respect. Case in point... the Dakar race... practically bone stock... it kicked every thing's ass. I'm confident that you will see a lot more of that in the future. :rocks:

[SilvertE90]

Originally Posted by bergy

Due to the fact this rumor is possibly true,most of you guys with 330s and 325s are now probably sweating how under powered your outdated cars will be shortly.I am telling you there is a light at the end of the tunnel I may be interested in one of your cars ,of course the price would have to be right . Or if need be I'll just keep driving my wifes minivan until the new 3 series has over 300 hp and is priced around 30000 Canadian.

Its just not even funny, they got me on the 323 and now the 325,,,,

[3aficionado]

Originally Posted by SilvertE90

Its just not even funny, they got me on the 323 and now the 325,,,,

If BMW does the badge switch, like they did with the e46, I don't see the big deal. You still have an amazing car that you have been and will continue to use.

Early adopters are always the ones who have the latest technology but pay a premium price to be first. And early adopters are also the ones who feel slighted when a change occurs shortly into the prodcut life cycle. It happens with every product from cell phones to cars. I'm sure we can all name a few... e46 323 to 325; E90 pre Sept cars with software needing upgrades; All generations of iPods when they added disc space at the same price; iPod photo purchasers a few months ago before all iPods became photo capable; and the list could go on. But that is the price of being an early adopter. Especially with companies that have a track record of these types of changes.

The point is you have the latest entry level luxury sports car that manufacters have to offer. Enjoy it for what it is... the best of the best. And I bet it will still be very sought after when you decide to trade up... to a 6 series

[SilvertE90]

Originally Posted by 3aficionado

If BMW does the badge switch, like they did with the e46, I don't see the big deal. You still have an amazing car that you have been and will continue to use.

Early adopters are always the ones who have the latest technology but pay a premium price to be first. And early adopters are also the ones who feel slighted when a change occurs shortly into the prodcut life cycle. It happens with every product from cell phones to cars. I'm sure we can all name a few... e46 323 to 325; E90 pre Sept cars with software needing upgrades; All generations of iPods when they added disc space at the same price; iPod photo purchasers a few months ago before all iPods became photo capable; and the list could go on. But that is the price of being an early adopter. Especially with companies that have a track record of these types of changes.


decide to trade up... to a 6 series

Well, i wont loose sleep over 20Hp , more the resale. And no sixer in this garage

[Tine]

Originally Posted by SpeedFreak!

Just so the record is perfectly clear:

The way you talk about the 4 series is in perfect context with the original plan to replace all 2 doors with even number badging. That plan has been dead for a very long time. Fortunately the marketing dept. made their case that it would have been extremely stupid to mess with the 3 series brand identity in that way. Especially as it pertains to the M3. The future of the 4 series is now separate from the 3 series. It's not a replacement... it's a completely separate car. Like I have said over and over again... a baby 6 series. High luxury... 300-400lbs heavier then a 3 series coupe/convertible... a very different car. I believe we will see a 435Ci/435Cic/M4 within the next year or so with production happening in either 2007 or 2008.

You are dead wrong on 4-series. It was an initial plan to axe 3-series Coupe and Cabrio and to present 4-series instead: a baby 6er - a luxurious Coupe and cabrio based on E90 platform, yet a departure from 3-series legacy & design - to take on MB CLK. But at the end idea was outvoted (in the meantime BMW considered only a Coupe-Cabrio with folding hard top will be badged 4-series). Coupe and CC will continue to be badger 3-series. 4-series label was put on ice.

BMW will surely not launch another Coupe & Cabrio line above 3-series. Nonsense. But there will be (still not for certain) coupe and cabrio below 3-series: 1-series (or 2-series - another issue to vote aboute ) coupe and cabrio.

Your source is wrong on this issue.

There is nothing that you can say at this point that could possibly prove that Scott is "much more informed on corporate levels and is 100% correct." How can you possibly say with 100% certainty that his European corporate information is better then my US corporate information. It makes no sense at all. At this point... none of us are able to post "official" BMW documents because we love working for BMW and don't want to be forced to leave... if you catch my drift... so we are going to have to sit back and wait for something "official" that we can all accept as fact. I know I'll be happy to share as soon as I am able... until then, all I can do is tell you about what I see and hear through conversations.

If it makes you happy... I guess I could always keep all this to myself. I don't think that would be as much fun... but I guess I could always do that.

Let me say this: BMW AG headquarters are in Munich, Germany.

[cntlaw]

Originally Posted by lux.sh

ahahahhah we are so screwed. time to put up my 330i in autotrader now.

Lux
the guy who dont have a E90 330i who is jealous all of the E90 owners here , so he spread a lot of news about these 335 shhhhtts to upset people.
Believe me, he won't be getting anything at the end of the day.

[SpeedFreak!]

Originally Posted by Tine

You are dead wrong on 4-series. It was an initial plan to axe 3-series Coupe and Cabrio and to present 4-series instead: a baby 6er - a luxurious Coupe and cabrio based on E90 platform, yet a departure from 3-series legacy & design - to take on MB CLK. But at the end idea was outvoted (in the meantime BMW considered only a Coupe-Cabrio with folding hard top will be badged 4-series). Coupe and CC will continue to be badger 3-series. 4-series label was put on ice.

BMW will surely not launch another Coupe & Cabrio line above 3-series. Nonsense. But there will be (still not for certain) coupe and cabrio below 3-series: 1-series (or 2-series - another issue to vote aboute ) coupe and cabrio.

Your source is wrong on this issue.




Let me say this: BMW AG headquarters are in Munich, Germany.

Until a few days ago... I would have agreed with you completely regarding the 4 series. Now... I believe things are different.

As for the location of BMW AG... please... I'm completely aware of their location. That was actually my point. Although I'm sure info out of AG is good info... as it pertains specifically to the US market... I would trust info coming out of BMW NA before I would accept info coming out of AG.

[SpeedFreak!]

Originally Posted by cntlaw

Lux
the guy who dont have a E90 330i who is jealous all of the E90 owners here , so he spread a lot of news about these 335 shhhhtts to upset people.
Believe me, he won't be getting anything at the end of the day.

What the hell are you talking about? Are you in kindergarten? The person that started this thread has an E90. So he's jealous?

[SCA]

Originally Posted by SpeedFreak!

If it makes you happy... I guess I could always keep all this to myself. I don't think that would be as much fun... but I guess I could always do that.

No!!!!