[Ethirtynine]

Originally Posted by Bisoned

With all due respect, the TL is a good value for the money.

I agree. You get more with the TL than you do with a 325

[john802]

Originally Posted by Bisoned

With all due respect, the TL is a good value for the money.

Not in my book! Twice, the dealer had to replace the tranny of my '02 TL under warranty. I finally got rid of it by selling it to CarMax.

[ward]

Originally Posted by BMWE90

It's a bigger car!! What do you expect?? I actually prefer Honda's handling over every other japanese makers. I think it's ridiculous that people bash everything else just cuss they have something better.

the 5 and 7 don't roll and squat like pigs and they are bigger cars

tl=crappy driving (which you'll never notice if you drive like an old lady)

[ward]

Originally Posted by Ethirtynine

I agree. You get more with the TL than you do with a 325

you don't get as entertaining driving experience

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by ward

the 5 and 7 don't roll and squat like pigs and they are bigger cars

tl=crappy driving (which you'll never notice if you drive like an old lady)

Man I saw that coming a mile away. THat's why I said I prefer it over other Japanese makers (not German). The TL does handle exceptionally well for its size and for a japanese car.

[gratemech69er]

Consumer Reports is a good magazine, and in the past they have rated the BMW 3 series very well. They use to put the 3 series in a category called "upscale sedans", and last year the 330i rated second to the Acura TL.

If you read the April Consumers Report closely, they will be doing a full report on the E90 325i in the May issue, and it will be up against the Lexus IS250, Audi A4, Cadillac CTS, Lincoln Zephyr, Mercedes C230, and Saab 9-3. Reading between the lines the order will be:

1) IS 250
2) BMW 325i
3) Audi A4
4) Lincoln Zephyr
5) Cadillac CTS
6) Mercedes C230
7) Saab 9-3

For some reason they are not recommending the E90 - maybe they don't like the run flat tires , or they had a safety related issue. We will find out next month.

[StewtheBassman]

Originally Posted by ward

people looking to CR for auto advice are the same people who spend 4 weeks researching their toasters to make sure they get the reliable one

OOps.....now you've found me out!

[gratemech69er]

Three other comments about Consumer Reports (and no, they don't have good info on toasters) -

1) They maintain by far the best statistical information in the world on automotive reliability. Over the years this has driven quality improvement in the industry.

2) The car that had the overall best score in the April issue isn't a Honda or Toyota, but the Porsche Boxster 2.7. The Audi S4 and BMW M3 are tied for second.

3) They are a non-profit organization that isn't dependant on advertising, and therefor unlike other magazines aren't influenced by advertisers on their recommendations.

[bos]

The only cars in the upscale sedan category which outrank 325i are the Acura TL, and the Lexuses (Lexi?) ES330/IS250. The TL is a truly exceptional value for its price and earns its high rank there. The Lexuses are ranked just above the BMW, but the lows for the ES include "lackluster handling" and the IS "lacks sportiness".

The other cars mentioned are actually in the "family cars" category (accord and passat) or the "large sedan" category (avalon). Category is critical to the scoring, as CR gives such vehicles as the Hyundai Sonata higher total scores than many luxury cars (including the 750Li).

Value (price) is very important in this analysis.

[selm]

Originally Posted by lux.sh

Complicated controls??????????????? what complicated controls. wtf?
I guess bunch of guys with IQ of 10 are working in CR department.

and the cupholders, GOOD POINT!

Maybe they had a car with I-Drive and thought it was too complicated.

[tctic]

Originally Posted by bos

Value (price) is very important in this analysis.

phhss... They don't know what "value" is....

Really, everyone has different definition of what value is, including any magazine reviews. If one considers something like having the most standard features and price of options regardless of their further details for example, then the E90 is for sure not going to be seens as #1 in comparison.

[ksfrogman]

CR considers value relative to average consumer wants and needs. BMW enthusiasts are probably not your average consumers. We place a higher value on overall driving experience, prestige, traditional fine details, and ego satisfaction--something that most other brands cannot offer.

[nyfinest]

First as a priority i'd take features/options over "ownership pride".....Pride only gets you so far....Give me more HP!!!!!!!!!!!!! Disappointed with starting out power.
IMHO the TL is a great vehicle(my previous vehicle). More power great styling(especially interior with more standard ammenities than my 325). Definitely more power. However handling and braking in the TL cannot compare to my 325...

[Bisoned]

John802-

You are comparing apples to oranges. The 2002 TL is a different model than the car in question. To compare an '02 TL to an '07 TL would be like comparing an e46 323i to the e90 325i... To the best of my knowledge, there have been no transmission issues with the current TL model similar to the issues with the previous generation.

[Bisoned]

Originally Posted by ward

you don't get as entertaining driving experience

Really? That's subjective... If you consider acceleration entertaining, the TL is more entertaining. I also believe the TL beat the BMW on the skidpad. I'm not saying the TL is a better driving car, but the numbers are the numbers. I would take a 330i over the TL, but a 325i- that's another story.

[nyfinest]

I had a 04 TL and while i enjoyed the HP/Power(lacking in the 325) and some ammenities the overall build does not equal the 325........IMHO

[nyfinest]

Not interested in ego, prestige, owner loyalty. I'm interested in a good product.........Regardless of manufacturer....

[noflash]

Originally Posted by gratemech69er

For some reason they are not recommending the E90 - maybe they don't like the run flat tires , or they had a safety related issue. We will find out next month.

Because it's "New" and they don't have enough "statistical" information on its reliability yet.

[ward]

Originally Posted by Bisoned

Really? That's subjective... If you consider acceleration entertaining, the TL is more entertaining. I also believe the TL beat the BMW on the skidpad. I'm not saying the TL is a better driving car, but the numbers are the numbers. I would take a 330i over the TL, but a 325i- that's another story.

then you either don't realize how close the 325 is to 330 or you don't enjoy driving around corners

[noflash]

Originally Posted by gratemech69er

Three other comments about Consumer Reports (and no, they don't have good info on toasters) -

1) They maintain by far the best statistical information in the world on automotive reliability. Over the years this has driven quality improvement in the industry.

They claim to have a readership base of 250,000, I believe. From that, subtract the amount that did NOT do the survey. Then divide it up over all the cars they rate. Now you'd be lucky to have a few hundred per car (and many less for some).

These responders are hardly a sampling of the car-consumer popluation. They are folks who subscribe to CR, fill out the survey, and own the car. I don't know those people. I'm not one. We haven't seen any pop up here yet.

These are just white-collar, yuppies who obsess (as stateed earlier) on getting the most reliable toaster.

Originally Posted by gratemech69er

3) They are a non-profit organization that isn't dependant on advertising, and therefor unlike other magazines aren't influenced by advertisers on their recommendations.

Not-for-profit organizations are still profit driven. FOUR YEARS ago I cancelled my subscription. They still send me junk mail. They are influenced by profit.

[sdorn]

Junk mail sucks.

[ben1364]

ward wrote in part, "CR does not and will never understand fun to drive."

I agree. However, a few years ago, CU said of the E39 6-cylinder car that it was the best sedan they had ever tested. I agree with CU on that point which is rare for me. <g>