Anybody running O2 Plug Defoulers?

[RimasRS]

Originally Posted by thez99

So everyone that has a catless DP without any kind of a tune is pretty much guaranteed to run rich as hell?

Does a flash like the Cobb AP fix this richness

Cobb does nothing about DP's

[JB135MDCT]

Originally Posted by thez99

So everyone that has a catless DP without any kind of a tune is pretty much guaranteed to run rich as hell?

Does a flash like the Cobb AP fix this richness

Downstream O2s are not used for primary feedback control of fuel mixture.

[J. Dub]

Originally Posted by thez99

Oy, there sure is a helluva lot of different opinions running around about the need for these things and whether some pipes cause CEL's or not, etc.

Sure would be nice to get some definitive answers on these questions

Originally Posted by thez99

So everyone that has a catless DP without any kind of a tune is pretty much guaranteed to run rich as hell?

Does a flash like the Cobb AP fix this richness

You and I must be brothers. I've been kicking this question around for days.

[HondaGoneRogue]

Bumping this thread as I'm about to install some and try to pass smog without removing my DP's. Hope it works. I'll post what I find. As of now, with the JB4, it blinds the sensors and in turn will fail smog when the computer see's the sensors aren't ready. If I turn the tune off and let the sensors do their thing, once they warm up it will throw a cel and still fail smog. So, with the O2 sensors pulled out of the stream, I should be able to turn off the tune, let them complete the ready cycle, and pass smog.

Wish me luck.

[romak47]

Originally Posted by HondaGoneRogue

Bumping this thread as I'm about to install some and try to pass smog without removing my DP's. Hope it works. I'll post what I find. As of now, with the JB4, it blinds the sensors and in turn will fail smog when the computer see's the sensors aren't ready. If I turn the tune off and let the sensors do their thing, once they warm up it will throw a cel and still fail smog. So, with the O2 sensors pulled out of the stream, I should be able to turn off the tune, let them complete the ready cycle, and pass smog.

Wish me luck.

GL man,


curious to know if this works. Wont you have to pay for the smog even if it fails?
I just passed my smog check yesterday here in Cali with my mid cat deleted Bastuck on lmao, had my catted dp's on however. I plan on putting my catless AR's in shortly and if this fouler works, it will save me time having to remove my AR's in the next year or two when i redo my smog.
As far as damage to sensors I doubt the richer fuel would damage them. I was concerned about the room to back them off however. Guess thats a non issue though..

[1Fasst1]

I have read where people have done this and it worked, but it was on older models. Some even had to use 2 foulers to get the sensor far enough out of the exh flow. Must be trial and error method.Even with the BMS fix sometimes you have to make adjustments to the signal. With this method the only adjustment is how much to space the sensor. Remember the DMEs are alot more sensitive then prior years.As for hi-Flow catted DPs I called AR about codes.I was told about 85% of the cars had no problems,as for the other 15% you have to add a DP fix. Please post an let us know your results. Good luck

[BostonBeemah]

Originally Posted by HondaGoneRogue

Bumping this thread as I'm about to install some and try to pass smog without removing my DP's. Hope it works. I'll post what I find. As of now, with the JB4, it blinds the sensors and in turn will fail smog when the computer see's the sensors aren't ready. If I turn the tune off and let the sensors do their thing, once they warm up it will throw a cel and still fail smog. So, with the O2 sensors pulled out of the stream, I should be able to turn off the tune, let them complete the ready cycle, and pass smog.

Wish me luck.

Any news??

[HondaGoneRogue]

I should find out tomorrow if it works or not. I had a busy week and weekend. SEMA and car shows.

[TEAM SLO]

Not to be pushy....but any updates?

[HondaGoneRogue]

Originally Posted by Slo135

Not to be pushy....but any updates?

I have the defoulers but i have been working 8 to 8 this week. Was hoping on doing it today since its veterans day but I'm stuck here at work putting a Blackhawk back together(actually, Im waiting on parts. Lol.) Hopefully we will finish today and I can do it tomorrow. My tags expired on the first so this is a priority hahaha.

[HondaGoneRogue]

I installed them tonight. Fingers crossed that I won't have a check engine light when I turn the tune off.

[TEAM SLO]

Let us know how it goes, took mine about 4 different drives and around 30+ miles before it actually came on. Running no defoulers.

On previous cars, I noticed many were a hit n miss. Many would run defoulers, sometimes 2 on each, some would get the check engine light while others wouldn't. There was no pattern we could find.....

[1Fasst1]

Please keep us updated on your results. I have actually done this on an Acura Integra GSR and it worked, but Im sure the ECU wasnt as sensitive as what we have now plus the car was n/a.

[HondaGoneRogue]

Yeah, the sensors on the Acuras were narrow band giving values of 0-1.v

The sensors on our cars are wideband and give a more exact reading. because of this, it may richen our mixture since the sensors are not recieving the same amount of gasses. Since our tunes take care of the CEL, the defoulers should really only be used to get our monitor ready codes to come on withought throwing an error for smog. I def won't just leave them in and daily on a stock map.

I will be off of work at noon so I'll do some driving and see what happens. If one spacer isn't enough to pull it out of the exhaust stream, I may try 2 on each sensor. After that I could also try steel wool bunched up between the spacers to further reduce the gas the sensor may be picking up.

If all else fails, I'll be putting my stock pipes back on lol.

[1Fasst1]

If all else fails, I'll be putting my stock pipes back on lol.[/QUOTE]

Hope you dont have to go that route. Since the top 02 adj fuel and the lower 02 signal is more for cat efficiently you really maybe on to something if you get the spacing right. Good luck

[HondaGoneRogue]

Yeah, you're right. Shouldn't hurt fuel at all. Don't know where my head was at.

[HondaGoneRogue]

CEL thrown @ 44mi. Drilling out second spacers now. Looks like the Dp's have to come off for the second set to be installed. They are too tall to get to with even an offset wrench. Also need new gaskets if they have to come off.

[1Fasst1]

Originally Posted by HondaGoneRogue

CEL thrown @ 44mi. Drilling out second spacers now. Looks like the Dp's have to come off for the second set to be installed. They are too tall to get to with even an offset wrench. Also need new gaskets if they have to come off.

Sorry to hear that, really hope it would work first time.If you have to pull the DPs why not just use the BMS DP fix. It would alter the signal of the secondary 02s ,the ECU thinks everything is working right and you pass inspection.

[HondaGoneRogue]

I wasnt aware the dp fix did that. I thought it did the exact same thing as the new tune?

[1Fasst1]

Originally Posted by HondaGoneRogue

I wasnt aware the dp fix did that. I thought it did the exact same thing as the new tune?

Most of the tunes just auto delete the CEL from coming on dash. The DP fix actually alters the signal to the ECU. That way when the emisson computer is plugged in the OBDII port it it receives data that is within specs.

[Dr-Euro]

We were never able to get the defoulers to work on the N54. It was interesting to read that someone above was able to get it to work the the N55.
Reason why the defoulers didn't work (and shouldn't work) is because the ECU is looking for a complex algorithm. Below is a graph showing the difference in signal between the OEM cat and catless...

The White wave form shows a stock reading. The red waveform shows a reading on a catless setup. The waveform actually begins to oscillate without the cat. The only thing a defouler would achieve is make the wave form smaller. It is difficult to explain in lame-mans terms, but hopefully the picture gives a better understanding of why an electrical fix is necessary.

[BSM 135i]

Originally Posted by HondaGoneRogue

I wasnt aware the dp fix did that. I thought it did the exact same thing as the new tune?

Originally Posted by 1Fasst1

Most of the tunes just auto delete the CEL from coming on dash. The DP fix actually alters the signal to the ECU. That way when the emisson computer is plugged in the OBDII port it it receives data that is within specs.

+1, with the JB4 it doesn't actually have a o2 sim built in it just has a code auto clear feature which clears any codes thrown including ones from being catless. the auto clear feature can only be turned on (clears all codes) or off (clears none) so that's why when i install my catless dp's i will be installing an o2 sim since i don't want every code cleared for the possibility i may need to leave one there for service reasons.

i thought the same thing as you Eric so i sold mine when my buddy gave me his V3 o2 sim for free after selling his dp's and now i have to buy a brand new one