Is it even reasonable to compare 135i vs. Z4M?

[esscolab]

It's about as manly as a transexual in a cat fight.

[whya1?]

Originally Posted by moff

mmmm let me think....

- Aston Martin!!!
- McLaren
- Caterham
- Lotus
- Westfield
- Noble
- Bristol
- Lola (yes the company that designs and build the chassis for the US Champ car series)

Aston Martin... sold by Ford to a Kuwaiti ownership group
McLaren...race/tuning company. Not car manufacturer
Caterham...makes cars not street legal in most countries with no tops
Lotus...owned by Proton, a Malaysian company
Westfield...same as caterham but smaller
Noble... 100 cars per year is not a manufacturer
Lola... race company

So I was right, there are no British car companies. There is a large difference between being a race team and a car manufacturer. I think the British did do one thing right and that is their insistence upon lightweight cars. Something BMW should perhaps take into consideration.

[whya1?]

Originally Posted by esscolab

It's about as manly as a transexual in a cat fight.

Are you talking about the Z4M or the 135? People who throw stones shouldn't live in glass houses. And the 135 is perhaps the most rickety glass house you can find with regards to looks.

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by whya1?

Aston Martin... sold by Ford to a Kuwaiti ownership group
McLaren...race/tuning company. Not car manufacturer
Caterham...makes cars not street legal in most countries with no tops
Lotus...owned by Proton, a Malaysian company
Westfield...same as caterham but smaller
Noble... 100 cars per year is not a manufacturer
Lola... race company

So I was right, there are no British car companies. There is a large difference between being a race team and a car manufacturer. I think the British did do one thing right and that is their insistence upon lightweight cars. Something BMW should perhaps take into consideration.

I think you would argue the sky isn't blue. Glad you think you're right, though. At least somebody does...

[whya1?]

Originally Posted by bmwzone

Not bad territory for a 35K BMW.

Like MattDFW wrote, this car isn't just fun 0-60 but at the higher speeds the available HP is just intoxicating.

You are right but you are comparing a 6 year old car with a brand new one. Let alone the fact that the stock equipment on an M car vastly exceeds anything you can even option onto the 1. If you actually put leather, heated seats, sports package, aero package, etc onto the 1 series the price balloons to well over 40k.

So which is dumber, buying a 135 with an open differential and putting a ridiculous chip on it to put even MORE power to a single wheel or buying a car that was designed to race and comes with the competent suspension tuning from the factory.

That higher speed feel by the way is torque. Another good way to get that feeling is by buying a big old American V8 in Mustang or GTO form. You will also save 10k that way. If you would like to be intoxicated for less. The high rpm scream of the M engine cannot be reproduced by a force feed 3L.

[whya1?]

Originally Posted by Balls

I think you would argue the sky isn't blue. Glad you think you're right, though. At least somebody does...

Not necessarily but there are no British manufacturers that you can buy in the US today. I would love if there was a Caterham or MG dealership around. Lotus is British enough i suppose even if it is owned by Malaysians.

[ARES45]

I have seen 135s laying twin stripes, so the power is getting to both wheels just fine. The E-diff works well enough to make a z4m and 135 a good race with the 135 laying wood if you aren't racing at sea level.

I truly hope the redesign works out for the z4m and I do love the car, there is just better out there now.

[Bavarian MW]

Originally Posted by ARES45

I have seen 135s laying twin stripes, so the power is getting to both wheels just fine. The E-diff works well enough to make a z4m and 135 a good race with the 135 laying wood if you aren't racing at sea level.

I truly hope the redesign works out for the z4m and I do love the car, there is just better out there now.

I agree.

Most everyone here knows that Ballz and Whya1 are our forum trolls (a). They will knock the 1 to us Addicts, just to get a rise out of us.

Just ignore them and hopefully they will go away soon (to their "perfectsportscar.com" forum).

(a) An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

--taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_troll

[isitspringyet]

Give Balls a break, he is trying to be less controversial. We all have strong opinions, and not everyone will agree. He had a 135, and it didn't fit. I can understand that. It happens to be perfect for me, and a lot of others on this forum. But he paid the price for entry. I don't have to agree with him, but he does get respect.

Whya1 on the other hand, just has a problem with everything. Too bad for him!

[esscolab]

If Whya1 hates the 135 so much, what the hell is he doing on this forum? Perhaps his life is so meaningless that he finds this place his only salvation.

[135i_]

Originally Posted by C_Topher

Bimmer mag made an interesting point this month: The Z4M coupe is loud and punishing on the freeway - 4 hours is intolerable.

I guess it depends on your definition of intolerable.

My car is louder and much more punishing than the coupe... I drove it from Northern Virginia to Virginia Beach and then up to upstate NY and loved every minute of it.

[135i_]

Originally Posted by whya1?

Lotus...owned by Proton, a Malaysian company

And still manufactured in Hethel, Norfolk, England.

To answer the OP's question, no it's not reasonable.

P/W ratio, chassis, suspension, etc. etc.

The vehicles are for different things. Personally I'd rather have a Z4M on the track and a 135i on the street.

[future135i]

If I had a 135i I would be envious of the ///M on the Z4M. But for $10+K price difference and lack of practicality I could not choose Z4M over 135i. If I abosolutely had to have a ///M car I would buy a M3. But that's just me... a possible future 135i owner.

[Blacky]

Originally Posted by ARES45

I have seen 135s laying twin stripes, so the power is getting to both wheels just fine. The E-diff works well enough to make a z4m and 135 a good race with the 135 laying wood if you aren't racing at sea level.

I truly hope the redesign works out for the z4m and I do love the car, there is just better out there now.

I love my 1'er (not 135) but I have to say a Z4 M would be my car of choice.

For the above quote, I am not engineer or expert but doesn't the E-Diff apply the rear brakes and therefore has the potential to actually slow the car?

As other people have said there is a lot of emotion in this thread, keep it up LOL!!!!

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by ARES45

I have seen 135s laying twin stripes, so the power is getting to both wheels just fine. The E-diff works well enough to make a z4m and 135 a good race with the 135 laying wood if you aren't racing at sea level.

I truly hope the redesign works out for the z4m and I do love the car, there is just better out there now.

What's better and why? Better is subjective. Sure a Porsche Cayman S is better, but I didn't want to spend $18,000 more. The new M3 (not a sports car) is a hair faster, but is heavy and fuel inefficient and has so many elcetronic aids that make the drive less rewarding (of course I'd love DCT in my M Coupe). The new Z4 M at some point will be another far cry from a purist BMW as it'll be chocked full of convenience features and electronic driving aids and will actually need the extra power of the V8 to compensate for the heft (just like the new M3). For sure the Z4 M in current form is the last pure sports car BMW will ever make. What's not to love?

Besides, you got to love a car that goes 172 mph in 5th gear bone stock from the factory. Thankfully BMW M saw fit to only have the electronic speed limiter active in top gear.

For all I do like the 135i. It's a fine car and great entry level BMW. I'm well aware of all its virtues. I don't disagree with anything it offers. With a little in the way of mods it's a fantastic drive. A usable rear seat and RWD really put it in a class of 1. If you could live a child's rear seat or no rear seat there are a couple of cars I'd prefer, obviously.

[crzy4135i]

Originally Posted by Blacky

I love my 1'er (not 135) but I have to say a Z4 M would be my car of choice.

For the above quote, I am not engineer or expert but doesn't the E-Diff apply the rear brakes and therefore has the potential to actually slow the car?

As other people have said there is a lot of emotion in this thread, keep it up LOL!!!!

I think the biggest difference is the rear brakes could overheat if you're constantly using the e-diff, such as on a track, etc. I seriously doubt there would be a problem with street driving. The main reason I don't burn the tires is they're too expensive.

[bmwzone]

Originally Posted by Balls

What's better and why? Better is subjective. Sure a Porsche Cayman S is better, but I didn't want to spend $18,000 more. The new M3 (not a sports car) is a hair faster, but is heavy and fuel inefficient and has so many elcetronic aids that make the drive less rewarding (of course I'd love DCT in my M Coupe). The new Z4 M at some point will be another far cry from a purist BMW as it'll be chocked full of convenience features and electronic driving aids and will actually need the extra power of the V8 to compensate for the heft (just like the new M3). For sure the Z4 M in current form is the last pure sports car BMW will ever make. What's not to love?

Besides, you got to love a car that goes 172 mph in 5th gear bone stock from the factory. Thankfully BMW M saw fit to only have the electronic speed limiter active in top gear.

For all I do like the 135i. It's a fine car and great entry level BMW. I'm well aware of all its virtues. I don't disagree with anything it offers. With a little in the way of mods it's a fantastic drive. A usable rear seat and RWD really put it in a class of 1. If you could live a child's rear seat or no rear seat there are a couple of cars I'd prefer, obviously.

:thumbup:

Z4 M is a more expensive 2 seater car don't forget - we are comparing apples to oranges really.

I need a 4-seater and when I heard they are packaging the twin turbo 6 in it I was almost 99% sold. When I saw the performance #'s (0-60 anywhere from 4.7 sec to 4.9 sec) I was 99% sold. Then I drove it. 110% sold.

There's nothing I don't like about the car so far.

Z4 is too unpractical for me plus it's base price is 15k more!

[ARES45]

Originally Posted by Blacky

I love my 1'er (not 135) but I have to say a Z4 M would be my car of choice.

For the above quote, I am not engineer or expert but doesn't the E-Diff apply the rear brakes and therefore has the potential to actually slow the car?

As other people have said there is a lot of emotion in this thread, keep it up LOL!!!!

The e-diff does use the break on the spinning wheel, but it doesn't do so over a long period of time. If you have any amount of pedal control it will brake the spinning wheel for a millisecond until the second wheel breaks loose as well. Since a spinning wheel has less traction it will not actually slow the car. It is not a true diff, but it is (like I said) good enough to compete with a z4m.

In response to Balls, the 135 is not in the same category as the z4m and isn't as pure of a sports car, I don't think anyone can ague that. The z4m may be more fun to an experienced driver when doing some laps, but it may or may not be able to beat a 135 around that track.

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by bmwzone

:thumbup:

Z4 M is a more expensive 2 seater car don't forget - we are comparing apples to oranges really.

I need a 4-seater and when I heard they are packaging the twin turbo 6 in it I was almost 99% sold. When I saw the performance #'s (0-60 anywhere from 4.7 sec to 4.9 sec) I was 99% sold. Then I drove it. 110% sold.

There's nothing I don't like about the car so far.

Z4 is too unpractical for me plus it's base price is 15k more!

Understand completely. The price sold me too. I'd much prefer a Porsche Cayman S in the garage to sit along side my MV Agusta but was too hard to justify. Plus, I always wanted a M car too. I'm not disappointed in the least. The car is amazing to drive. I need 4 seats too. That's what my 330xi is for...

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by ARES45

In response to Balls, the 135 is not in the same category as the z4m and isn't as pure of a sports car, I don't think anyone can ague that. The z4m may be more fun to an experienced driver when doing some laps, but it may or may not be able to beat a 135 around that track.

The track is where the Z4 M excels and 135i weakens (a bit). It's just the fact of the matter. The Z4 M is lighter, more powerful, geared for faster top end (will achieve much higher speeds bone stock), has a real LSD, steering is as prefect as it gets, chassis is flawless, brakes are track ready. Seriously, why would you think it would come in second to 135i there? The Z4 M will beat a Cayman S around a track (saw it on 5th Gear). Ultimately, both the Z4 M and 135i could use better rubber. Even my ride quality is a hair better than the 135i, mostly due to the runflats on the 135i I imagine.

[ARES45]

I say it again as I have said in previous posts it would be a drivers race on most tracks, and if the track doesn't sit at or near sea level, the advantage starts to tip to the 135i.

In this thread it comes down to this, it is reasonable to compare the two because the performance of the two is very close even if the utility is not the same.

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by ARES45

I say it again as I have said in previous posts it would be a drivers race on most tracks, and if the track doesn't sit at or near sea level, the advantage starts to tip to the 135i.

In this thread it comes down to this, it is reasonable to compare the two because the performance of the two is very close even if the utility is not the same.

My bottomline when it comes to performance is always this, which car can I drive faster. Well, I've had the pleasure of both this year and the drives are more different than hairsplitting would dictate on paper. For sure I can drive a Z4 M faster than a 135i because it's more confidence inspiring. Plus, I really like the heavy steering feel and the always planted feeling at high speed. Have you driven both enough to have an opinion?

The fact you make a special mention of high altitude only proves to me you're looking far and hard for any advantage to make up the gap. Audi enthusaists do the same when they throw in wet conditions. But you may be correct that at 6 or 8 thousand feet the 135i may have an advantage. I wouldn't know as I've never operated anything at that altitude.

Truthfully, the 0-60 times are near the same and the only figures that count are the ones BMW posts as their's are the most standardized. In those, the Z4 M is .2 seconds faster. 0-60 is one thing, but by no means something definitive to measure total performance. Lots of cars these days are close in that performance figure, and for sure a turbo can be boosted in power quite easily. Personally I wouldn't dare touch a motor still in warranty and risk reliability. If my car is slower than others than so be it. It drives the way I like and for sure has a really serious performance envelope, far beyond 0-60 times. For sure the best sports car package I've ever driven and had the pleasure to own. Hell, the steering wheel alone is worth the difference in price. An obvious exaggeration but everything you touch in the car from the seats to the steering wheel to the gearshift knob is about perfect. Strap it on some time and see for yourself.