HPF for our LHD cars?

[dh58]

I remember hearing from Justin @ Advan that we didn't have much room on the LHD cars to do much with upgraded turbos.

So what is the opinion of the HPF turbo kit? http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=734069

Will this fit?

[flinchy]

Rhd you mean yeah?

Singles would have no issue - it's big twins that are a squeeze

[dh58]

Originally Posted by flinchy

Rhd you mean yeah?

Singles would have no issue - it's big twins that are a squeeze

Yup lol.. Thanks.. Too much time spent overseas :/

[Drawn05]

The truth is that no-one knows for sure as no-one has tried to install any large twins or big singles on a rhd car. Advan has done some RnD and decided that a top mounted single turbo is the best way forward and that is what they are working on. They have told me that they mocked up how a -5 twin setup would fit and in their opinion it was not possible.

Until someone with a RHD actually buys a set of Vargas stage 2 or 3 and see's if they fit, Advans single turbo is the only RHD turbo upgrade beyond RBs.

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by Drawn05

The truth is that no-one knows for sure as no-one has tried to install any large twins or big singles on a rhd car. Advan has done some RnD and decided that a top mounted single turbo is the best way forward and that is what they are working on. They have told me that they mocked up how a -5 twin setup would fit and in their opinion it was not possible.

Until someone with a RHD actually buys a set of Vargas stage 2 or 3 and see's if they fit, Advans single turbo is the only RHD turbo upgrade beyond RBs.

Hey guys,

just to clarify the above, a GT2860R-5 (aka -5) twin setup may work, if one turbo is high mounted the other low. However Chris assures me it would be a "head fuck" to say the least and the design of the exhaust manifolds, would have to be compromised somewhat.

The GT2860 along with the GTX2860, 63 & 67 all share the same housing sizes externally, the "Vargas Turbo Tech" boys simply do not have to work around the steering column that we have on our RHD vehicles.

Their Stage 2 offering will bolt up to our RHD vehicles as they will utilise the OE TD03 housings, their Stage 3 GT/GTX28xx offerings will not.

The Vishnu/FFTEC "Big Single" kit may or may not bolt up, but as Steve said there is no way to know for sure until someone attempts to do so.

We have plans to high mount a Garrett GTX3582R that will utilise a compact Tial turbine housing, with a 0.82a/r.

From what I have seen thus far, Shiv has put together a quality kit. It may not be too difficult to modify their existing kit to allow fitment to a RHD vehicle.

However given that we have a kick arse in-house fabricator by the name of "young" Chris, an authority on turbo design, application and tuning in the form of that grumpy old Kiwi called Mr Hopkins, I see no reason for Advan not to do our own kit, to our own design, to meet our own goals.

Lastly with all the talk of "Vargas Turbo Tech" this, Vargas Turbo that, I suggest you guys refrain from getting too excited about the prospect of having a pseudo RB Turbo upgrade, at significantly less cost.

Rob has the runs on the board and his "upped" turbos have a proven track record, both in the form of consistent power development and turbocharger reliability.

It remains to be seen what the final cost of the VTT Stage 2 turbos will be, but as it stands right now (excluding the intro price) IIRC they are almost RB Turbo money.

Cheers,

JD.

[MrBlonde]

I agree with Steve and Justin, if you want to upgrade your OEM turbos go with Rob Becks because they are proven. But they are a lot of money for ~ 10% power increase.

A single turbo conversion using a GTX30R or GTX35R is the ultimate setup for the N54 engines. I'd lean towards GTX30R for a pure street car for mind blowing response and big power or a GTX35R if you want a dyno queen or want street/strip usage.

I had a GT30R with 1.06 hotside on my M Coupe and ran 10s at 136 MPH in a heavy car. A GTX30R is streets ahead of a GT30R. My point being a GTX30R makes FAR more than enough power for a street car.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance

Hey guys,

just to clarify the above, a GT2860R-5 (aka -5) twin setup may work, if one turbo is high mounted the other low. However Chris assures me it would be a "head fuck" to say the least and the design of the exhaust manifolds, would have to be compromised somewhat.

The GT2860 along with the GTX2860, 63 & 67 all share the same housing sizes externally, the "Vargas Turbo Tech" boys simply do not have to work around the steering column that we have on our RHD vehicles.

Their Stage 2 offering will bolt up to our RHD vehicles as they will utilise the OE TD03 housings, their Stage 3 GT/GTX28xx offerings will not.

The Vishnu/FFTEC "Big Single" kit may or may not bolt up, but as Steve said there is no way to know for sure until someone attempts to do so.

We have plans to high mount a Garrett GTX3582R that will utilise a compact Tial turbine housing, with a 0.82a/r.

From what I have seen thus far, Shiv has put together a quality kit. It may not be too difficult to modify their existing kit to allow fitment to a RHD vehicle.

However given that we have a kick arse in-house fabricator by the name of "young" Chris, an authority on turbo design, application and tuning in the form of that grumpy old Kiwi called Mr Hopkins, I see no reason for Advan not to do our own kit, to our own design, to meet our own goals.

Lastly with all the talk of "Vargas Turbo Tech" this, Vargas Turbo that, I suggest you guys refrain from getting too excited about the prospect of having a pseudo RB Turbo upgrade, at significantly less cost.

Rob has the runs on the board and his "upped" turbos have a proven track record, both in the form of consistent power development and turbocharger reliability.

It remains to be seen what the final cost of the VTT Stage 2 turbos will be, but as it stands right now (excluding the intro price) IIRC they are almost RB Turbo money.

Cheers,

JD.

From reading the other forum, the stage 2's will be $1000 odd cheaper than RB's?

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Hey Kenny,

the GTX3076R is the turbocharger we initially considered, however given that RB's on a properly setup N54 will make 345-355 rwkW's we wanted to go to something that will provide a sizeable gain in power output, over what RB's are capable of.

However with regards spool speed and responsiveness, I agree that a 3076 will be fantastic for both street and circuit use and this is the turbocharger we will be recommending for those customers that are not competitively drag racing, or are in need of a "Dyno Queen".

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by flinchy

From reading the other forum, the stage 2's will be $1000 odd cheaper than RB's?

Hi flinchy,

the last suggested pricing I saw from VTT once the intro price has expired, was $2,499-$2,999 with a core refund of around $600 for a RHD vehicle.

RB Turbos are $3,799 USD and have a core refund of $600 for our RHD 135i & 335i vehicles, as they use the same cores.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance

Hi flinchy,

the last suggested pricing I saw from VTT once the intro price has expired, was $2,499-$2,999 plus a core charge of around $600 for a RHD vehicle.

RB Turbos are $2,999 and have a core charge of $600 for our RHD 135i & 335i vehicles, as they use the same cores.

My price point was $1999 for the intro and $2499 retail.


from a quick google RB turbos are $3350 or something? (seems to be what most posters are sayign they paid? hard to find concrete info)

bit of a difference..

ED:
http://www.rbturbo.com/products.html

$3799 with a $600 core refund!

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by flinchy

My price point was $1999 for the intro and $2499 retail.


from a quick google RB turbos are $3350 or something? (seems to be what most posters are sayign they paid? hard to find concrete info)

bit of a difference..

ED:
http://www.rbturbo.com/products.html

$3799 with a $600 core refund!

Ooops,

you are correct with regards RB pricing.

I was thinking of something else when I wrote $2,999 (original post edited).

[Drawn05]

I am glad to see some discussion about turbo upgrades. Considering how much of a big investment this is, both cost-wise and how extensive the alterations required are, I am suprised at how little discussion there is on the Oz section.

The fact of the matter is, we really only have two choices - the big single or upgraded twins. The big single will cost a lot and require a lot of work, but will give the best bang for buck and total outright power. If you have the cash and the commitment, this is obviously the best way forward.

But, there will also be a larger amount of people that, for a plethora of reasons, will want to stick with the twin, stock-like system and they will most likely pay whatever the price (whether it is poorer value or not) to have the biggest twins that can fit in the space.

What strikes me as weird is that considering the LHD N54 guys dont have our steering column handicap, why haven't any of them done the Vargas stage 3 style upgrade until now?

I am not at the upgrade stage myself, but I certainly want to know what my complete options are before I make my plans for the future. I am also far from an expert on these matters but I can see that many people in Australia will want more than td03/04 hybrids or big single conversion as their only choices.

[pavo335]

Just waiting for more options

I don't care too much for people's personalities (as if anyone thought I did ). I just want the best solution and I think the next 6 months are gonna be very interesting!!!

[sparoz]

How much are people willing to spend? Does people want stock like response with higher Hp? Or just high HP?

I know what I want is response same as stock, with 350kw to the redline.

[pavo335]

Originally Posted by sparoz

How much are people willing to spend? Does people want stock like response with higher Hp? Or just high HP?

I know what I want is response same as stock, with 350kw to the redline.

Yep!

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by sparoz

How much are people willing to spend? Does people want stock like response with higher Hp? Or just high HP?

I know what I want is response same as stock, with 350kw to the redline.

that'd come best with some moderate twins yeah?

i know i wouldn't be happy with a car that died 500 before redline (the principle of it! lol)

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by Drawn05

I am glad to see some discussion about turbo upgrades. Considering how much of a big investment this is, both cost-wise and how extensive the alterations required are, I am suprised at how little discussion there is on the Oz section.

The fact of the matter is, we really only have two choices - the big single or upgraded twins. The big single will cost a lot and require a lot of work, but will give the best bang for buck and total outright power. If you have the cash and the commitment, this is obviously the best way forward.

But, there will also be a larger amount of people that, for a plethora of reasons, will want to stick with the twin, stock-like system and they will most likely pay whatever the price (whether it is poorer value or not) to have the biggest twins that can fit in the space.

What strikes me as weird is that considering the LHD N54 guys dont have our steering column handicap, why haven't any of them done the Vargas stage 3 style upgrade until now?

I am not at the upgrade stage myself, but I certainly want to know what my complete options are before I make my plans for the future. I am also far from an expert on these matters but I can see that many people in Australia will want more than td03/04 hybrids or big single conversion as their only choices.

Hey Steve,

I agree with most of what you have said above, however I am not so sure that the statement "they will most likely pay whatever the price", is terribly accurate.

After having responded to countless PM's from both local and international members, regarding N54/N55 components in the last 9-12 months on the behalf of Advan, I would go so far as saying that cost saving when modding these vehicles, for the most part supersedes the desire to make it "as good as it can be."

Yes, there are some owners like you Steve, who are not at all interested in cutting corners when modding their cars and will do it properly regardless of the cost, within reason of course. However for many it would appear, that when it comes to upgrading their $90K-$125K 135i and 335i BMW's, "close enough is good enough".

I am certainly interested in seeing what comes of the VTT Stage 3 upgrade. However unless these guys have entered the N54 market just for shits and giggles, I suspect the R&D involved and the hardware required to achieve optimal results, will result in a price tag that may be a bit hard to swallow, except for enthusiasts such as yourself.

[JB4-335]

A nice moderate TT setup such as RB’s on a N54 would make for a much better DD than a large single IMO. It’s personal preference as to what power level each individual wants to achieve. MOST of us in Australia that own a 135 or 335 use the car 99.99% of the time to get to work/commute daily and a single turbo N54 would be useless if not horrible to drive seeing as 50% of Sydney roads are either School Zones (40kph) or standard 70kph roads. Don’t get me wrong I think running one big BASA$$ turbo on our cars would be a hoot, just not practical. The US guys drive on freeways a lot of the time where the speed limit is 65mph or 105kph (rarely do they do that speed) so the slower spooling large turbo could be put to more use.

As Kenny stated earlier for a 10-12% increase or $5500 installed for a set of RB’s is a hefty sum to pay for the added ponies. If you have the extra $$$ then why not. Go for it. I’m sure this option will suit most of the Australian guys looking for that little bit extra. If you want to run the single properly you are gonna be looking at 3-4 times the figure of the above installed RB’s. Too many components to upgrade from suspension, driveshafts, diff and gearbox just to name a few.

As for the Vargas Turbo stage one I really don’t think it’s gonna be worthwhile as we’ve seen many of these basic upgrades result in less power than the OE units but I could be wrong. Only time will tell. The Stage 2’s do sound interesting but at a similar cost to RB’s I would definitely wait a while until these have proven themselves and had extensive miles put on them. Way too early on in the development stages to get excited about them.

[Drawn05]

Would have to wait and see the results from the bigger single but I have the same concerns re: reducing the street/daily driving response from the car.

My opinion is that most people will just flat out resist the move to a single as it will just be a bridge too far, which was what I meant earlier by "paying any price" for a twin setup.

The knives are already out for vargas if their stage 2 doesnt rate against RBs, I cant imagine a stage 3 will be on the cards if this occurs. They really should have just gone stage 3 to begin with, get the kudos and customers, then tried to undercut, muscle out RB, if there really was a need to do that. Instead they have picked a fight and it will be make or break. We will know soon enough.

[dontask]

Originally Posted by JB4135

As for the Vargas Turbo stage one I really don’t think it’s gonna be worthwhile as we’ve seen many of these basic upgrades result in less power than the OE units but I could be wrong. Only time will tell. The Stage 2’s do sound interesting but at a similar cost to RB’s I would definitely wait a while until these have proven themselves and had extensive miles put on them. Way too early on in the development stages to get excited about them.

The vargas stage ones are already on a customer car and preliminary feedback is good, although the sample size is unreliable. I think the stage ones would be good for people with broken turbos but not chasing big power.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by dontask

The vargas stage ones are already on a customer car and preliminary feedback is good, although the sample size is unreliable. I think the stage ones would be good for people with broken turbos but not chasing big power.

+1 if you need to replace your turbo for whatever reason, don't see any reason why you shouldn't at least get stage 1. Great value

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance

Hey Steve,

I agree with most of what you have said above, however I am not so sure that the statement "they will most likely pay whatever the price", is terribly accurate.

After having responded to countless PM's from both local and international members, regarding N54/N55 components in the last 9-12 months on the behalf of Advan, I would go so far as saying that cost saving when modding these vehicles, for the most part supersedes the desire to make it "as good as it can be."

Yes, there are some owners like you Steve, who are not at all interested in cutting corners when modding their cars and will do it properly regardless of the cost, within reason of course. However for many it would appear, that when it comes to upgrading their $90K-$125K 135i and 335i BMW's, "close enough is good enough".

I am certainly interested in seeing what comes of the VTT Stage 3 upgrade. However unless these guys have entered the N54 market just for shits and giggles, I suspect the R&D involved and the hardware required to achieve optimal results, will result in a price tag that may be a bit hard to swallow, except for enthusiasts such as yourself.

From what vtt have said, they really are in it for the fun since their profit comes from industrial contracts


But yeah, time will certainly tell if it even performs as planned!