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06-01-2008, 11:04 AM | #1 |
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123d Spotted in Michigan
Simply testing new hardware or else? BMW Diesel hatch in the US, we can dream...
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/01/b...t-in-michigan/ |
06-03-2008, 05:28 PM | #3 |
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Bosch has a Michigan facility - see the plate, Manufacturer. FWIW, the folks in NJ have played with a 123D coupe here (had it in the hands of their personnel). They know what it can do - so there is some hope, I hope, I hope.
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06-03-2008, 05:45 PM | #5 |
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That's interesting, because the release of the X1 includes the announcement that it will be released with the top two gas engines and the top two diesel engines. Initially I figured diesel for Europe, and gas for the U.S.... but after reading your post, it leaves me with some hope that the X1 could possibly have a diesel variant here in the states... and I would be very interested in that!
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2008 /// Commemorative /// 6-Speed /// Titanium Silver /// Fully-Loaded /// 135i Convertible |
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06-03-2008, 05:49 PM | #6 |
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Any diesel BMW brings to the US will have to meet emissions standards in all 50 states, according to BMW. The big diesel in the 3er does (with its urea injection). I don't know if the 4-pot diesel in the 123D qualifies as a 50 state engine, however. That could be the sticking point.
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06-04-2008, 12:33 AM | #10 |
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Well at the price of diesel these days would it be worth it? Here it's $6.00 a gallon...
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06-04-2008, 12:49 AM | #11 |
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With a +45mpg (US) in combined cycle, it makes you think twice?
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06-04-2008, 05:36 AM | #12 |
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2008 /// Commemorative /// 6-Speed /// Titanium Silver /// Fully-Loaded /// 135i Convertible |
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06-04-2008, 09:19 AM | #13 |
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How many states can you actually buy new diesel passenger cars in? I know they aren't legal in Massachusetts. I thought it was true for many other states too?
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06-04-2008, 06:58 PM | #14 | |
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Quote:
The new generation of diesels will meet 50-State compliance with urea injection. Some manufacturer's call it ad-blue, but it is an ammonium-type solution and it requires only a tiny amount released in the exhaust stream to do the trick. Thus the name BLUETEC from Mercedes Benz. There are now already newer technologies being worked on that will eventually eliminate the urea. From what I understand, the 4-bangers are easier to clean and already won't require the urea, particularly from Honda, and I believe VW as well. Even if diesel fuel is more expensive, the fuel economy will be still be worth the investment in diesel alternatives. The problem will be the psychological hurdle to convince people to pay even MORE at the pump.
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06-05-2008, 10:23 AM | #16 |
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Interesting strategy question. This car will be competing directly with a big group of low-cost, fuel efficient hatchbacks. Can BMW sell a high-end hatchback that's probably not also a high-end performance car (like the 1 US coupes)? I'm assuming they would never be willing to drop their brand into the $20-30k price range (isn't that what Mini's for?). So would anyone pay a premium for a 43 mpg diesel hatch? One would think not, but the market for pickups and SUVs is crashing and the people who once bought a $70k pickup largely for the image may be now be willing to throw their money in the opposite direction - IF the image is right. In other words, the one constant might be "a fool and his money".
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06-05-2008, 12:30 PM | #17 |
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ptack - I think the 123d coupe would sell better in the US than a 123d hatch, partially because of the 'Halo' effect of the 135i coupe. That way BMW could market the 123d as a sporty, well handling car that happens to get awesome gas mileage. Based upon the difference between the price of the 135i and the 123d in Europe and the UK, the 123d coupe should be priced within a few hundred dollars of the 128i price.
My hopes would be doing an ED some day at $1,000 to $1,500 over ED invoice, which I think would put the price closer to the mid-20K range. That would be only a few thousand over a Jetta TDI, or a Prius Hybrid. The performance and handling improvements over either of these cars (while getting around the same MPG) would be well worth the extra expense. I think if BMW decides to target the "practical" market in the US with a 1-series car, they will market the X1 cross-over as "practical" instead of a 3-door or 5-door 1-series hatch. |
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06-05-2008, 01:42 PM | #18 |
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Driving the 135i (sometimes ; -) under 4500 RPM for the break-in period suggests to me that the 123d would be AWESOME. Stump-pulling torque is such an American sorta vice. ; -)
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06-05-2008, 02:39 PM | #20 |
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Mr (dead) President,
I'm sure BMW has some very highly paid people trying to read the tea leaves on these questions since they have hundreds of millions of dollars riding on the outcome, but my sense is that they are a few years too late in their planning. SUVs (even small ones) could do poorly in the future market because of the perception that they are gas guzzlers. Even if the X1 gets better mileage than some similar size sedans (hard to imagine, but possible), the public's perception could be that SUVs and things that look like SUVs are undesirable in the world of $4/gallon gas. It's quite a puzzler for BMW. They did the first easy step which was to introduce the 1 series coupe as a (slightly) lower level perormance car. Can they still do that with the rest of the 1 line or would a 5-door, 135i seriously start eating up 3 series sales? Audi is trying to pul that same trick off with the A3 so that might be the model to watch, as opposed to coming up with more SUVs for yesterday's US market. |
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