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      11-17-2009, 12:59 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asr engineering View Post
The airbox was designed in conjunction with our chargepipe kit to provide as much cavity space as possible for VE. This is why no other chargepipe will work with our airbox. If you break down the price, the chargepipe falls within the same price range as most others on the market. Although, our chargepipe does come with a Tial valve and factory style CNC Billet throttle body flange to mate to the factory C-Clip as well as a Billet CNC map sensor flange.

We haven't tested it with the strut brace you're referring to, so I can't give you an honest answer.
So it looks like Dinan's forthcoming intake will be your only true competitor. That is if he's building a similar contained intake system, which I'm assuming he is.



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      11-17-2009, 01:14 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf View Post
So it looks like Dinan's forthcoming intake will be your only true competitor. That is if he's building a similar contained intake system, which I'm assuming he is.
greg
He spoke at the shop that does my work about a month ago, and pretty much confirmed that it is a closed system made with a plastic housing.

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      11-17-2009, 02:11 PM   #47
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So how long and what are we looking at as far as pricing goes for Dinan's. Also it seems that it would not be very hard to fabricate your own....
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      11-17-2009, 02:42 PM   #48
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what if we dont want a BOV?
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      11-17-2009, 02:52 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asr engineering View Post
Can you prove or support your statement with factual data? Here's our proof and data. These filters are 250 micron stainless mesh elements. These same filters have been tested for years on our TT Porsche applications without any negative affect on the compressor or mass meters. They have also been tested in Dubai and Kuwait with our CAI for the S85 M5's, with no negative affect to the mass meters or debris in the engine as welll. In case you aren't familiar they have weekly sandstorms there and the sand is like powder.

These are not some cheap china made e-bay filters. The cost for these filters is higher than the K&N alternative which we have offered to BR Racing as well. As a matter of fact check out the attached thread for pics of the K&N installed on the same airbox. Although, the K&N filters does not have the same cfm flow rate capability as the Stainless Mesh filters, they can still support above the max CFM rating of the stock turbos.
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...&highlight=asr
I didn't mean to sound "quick to judge", but when people normally mention Stainless Steel air filters, I scream and run in the opposite direction. It certainly looks like the ones you mention are "better" than the ones I have heard experiences of in the past. Although I would be keen to filter particals far smaller than sand out my engine

Good luck with your development, it does look like an interesting version and I hope you Dyno result prove to be good.
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      11-17-2009, 03:06 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Si-135i View Post
I didn't mean to sound "quick to judge", but when people normally mention Stainless Steel air filters, I scream and run in the opposite direction. It certainly looks like the ones you mention are "better" than the ones I have heard experiences of in the past. Although I would be keen to filter particals far smaller than sand out my engine

Good luck with your development, it does look like an interesting version and I hope you Dyno result prove to be good.

Can you cite some source for this? 250 microns is pretty damn small.
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      11-17-2009, 10:34 PM   #51
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This intake looks cool but AFE has a closed intake coming out for around $700 that looks much nicer I think. It was on display at the SEMA show.



Also I am concerned it is only pulling from the stock 3"x4" snorkel just like the stock intake. I heard the lid was removed for the 500+hp runs making it like a dual cone. Can ASR confirm?
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      11-17-2009, 10:47 PM   #52
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Just to put the pricing pieces together.
The ASR system has both the charge pipe, BOV, and the closed intake w greater volume capacity and flow than the pic just added above (JackFlash)...if you take the TIAL BOV typical charge pipe price point, and the intake price point, add some other minor features, and essentially, we're at the same price point as that mentioned for the system shown at SEMA or the pic
Great to have options...at least now you can see real products coming to the market that address the requirements, rather than just being a simple bolt-on that actually takes away value from the OEM system
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      11-18-2009, 06:44 AM   #53
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I predict: stock CAI (which is already a closed cold air-intake system, only with a panel filter, in stead of two cones lol) performs better than this aftermarket setup. Only Gruppe M for me looks like an alternative, but again, that's very close to stock and it will perform as good as stock (at it's best). Only replacing the panelfilter by conefilters, does not give a seriously powergain. By the way, CAI's on a turbo engine like BMWN54 are in a way useless.
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      11-18-2009, 07:03 AM   #54
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1500...good luck with that.
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      11-18-2009, 07:13 AM   #55
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I'm putting my money on the CAI from Dinan.
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      11-18-2009, 10:05 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFlash View Post
This intake looks cool but AFE has a closed intake coming out for around $700 that looks much nicer I think. It was on display at the SEMA show.



Also I am concerned it is only pulling from the stock 3"x4" snorkel just like the stock intake. I heard the lid was removed for the 500+hp runs making it like a dual cone. Can ASR confirm?
This is absolutely false. All of the dyno testing done with our TT upgrades was done with airbox lid on. However, we did take the lid off to see if there was some power to be gained, but the datalogs and hp/tq figures remained pretty close with a slight increase in intake temps.

Last edited by asr engineering; 11-18-2009 at 10:48 AM..
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      11-18-2009, 10:46 AM   #57
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I hope many of you don't take this the wrong way, but I see a couple of people here making assumptions and so called "predictions" based on pure speculation and conjecture with no factual data.

The fact of the matter is that we've datalog tested a stock airbox vs. several different models we designed including the final product. We've even gone as far as to test cone filters directly bolted on to the factory intake tubes. The result was loss of power along with increased intake temps both connected to the stock airbox and cones filters connected directly to the intake.

Also, the front snorkel tube has mathematically more than enough surface area to support the intake flow required, even when VE is increased with addition of our scoops. As far as a stock airbox with a drop in filter working better than our intake, that is also mathemeticaly impossible. Lastly, the flat intake tubes that feed airflow to the turbos are not the limiting factor for stock turbos or even our TT upgrades. We have dyno tested our TT upgrades both with the stock intake tubes connected and completely disconnected with no change in performance at all. The fact that we saw no change in performance after disconnecting the stock intake tubes, proves the choke point is not the stock intake tubing. The only real choke point to even consider is the compressor inlet diameter. Which to be quite honest, is not choking the turbos enough to inhibit any great power loss. Otherwise, our TT upgrades would not have made 538whp/530wtq @20psi.

In the end, it wouldn't make much sense for us to design an intake that would not support the VE needed for our TT upgrades. Truth is, no matter how much speculation and conjecture is made, we are the only company that has proven our intake system works better than stock and can support 538whp/530wtq with dyno sheets to back up our claims. The next step now is to dyno test it on stock turbos vs a factory airbox and collect datalogs to reflect the positive gains.
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      11-18-2009, 12:27 PM   #58
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Hi ASR,

Thanks for the replies. Would it be possible for you to share some of these datalogs and dynos of your revisions? I'm sure some visual proof would help us believe in your product.
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      11-18-2009, 12:29 PM   #59
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      11-18-2009, 01:01 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuNasty View Post
Hi ASR,

Thanks for the replies. Would it be possible for you to share some of these datalogs and dynos of your revisions? I'm sure some visual proof would help us believe in your product.
We have no problem with doing so, except for the fact that our datalogs and dynos are from our turbo upgrades package and not with stock turbos. Many people have already seen these datalogs and dyno sheets on E90post. Showing these results again wouldn't be benficial for a potential customer that currently has stock turbos.

As stated in my last post, we will be doing dyno testing and datalogging on a stock turbo car to show the benefits of our intake system. The testing will be done with the same car both with the stock intake and the ASR Intake back to back. Once testing is done we will be more than happy to post the results of the datalogs along with dyno sheets, as we have with all other products we manufacture.
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      11-18-2009, 02:48 PM   #61
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Great, I look forward to the results.
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      11-18-2009, 05:43 PM   #62
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for $1500 dollars it should replace the pipes to the turbos as well as the last section near turbos as that is the real choking point in the intake system... You can make as much of a difference on the end of the intake tract as you want, but injen and BMS cones will have similar gains but a slightly higher temperature because thats not where the real bottleneck is at that point.
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      11-18-2009, 09:26 PM   #63
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It looks like a good design and a lot of work went into it. I think what would really help is stock vs. ur CAI dyno numbers from someone like AMS. Keep up the good work!
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      11-18-2009, 09:33 PM   #64
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      11-19-2009, 11:48 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSM135i View Post
for $1500 dollars it should replace the pipes to the turbos as well as the last section near turbos as that is the real choking point in the intake system... You can make as much of a difference on the end of the intake tract as you want, but injen and BMS cones will have similar gains but a slightly higher temperature because thats not where the real bottleneck is at that point.
Do you have factual data to support your claim about the stock intake tubes being the choke point? Do you know exactly what the overall surface area calculation is of the factory intake to see what the VE limit is? If you read our previous post you'll see where the information you are giving to other members is incorrect.

Also, what yourself and many other memebrs don't understand is the labor time to replace all those intake pipes that you feel are the choke point. It's easy to make a statement saying that you should replace the intake tubes from the turbos to the airbox, when many people have never seen what it actually takes to do so. No one in their right mind is going to pay the ridiculous amount of time it would take to R&R these intake tubes, especially when you will not see any power gains even with our upgraded turbos. We have proven this already with our upgraded turbo 135i.

Lastly, the air temp increase with the BMS and Injen intake is quite a bit more than you think it is. In case you're not familiar with BMW's adaptive ignition timing advance, it is directly relative to intake temperatures. Also, from a tuning perspective, each degree of intake timing advance produces more of a hp inrease than each lb of boost. Now if your intake air temperature is increased how do you think that will affect the ignition timing advance?
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      11-19-2009, 11:13 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asr engineering View Post
Do you have factual data to support your claim about the stock intake tubes being the choke point? Do you know exactly what the overall surface area calculation is of the factory intake to see what the VE limit is? If you read our previous post you'll see where the information you are giving to other members is incorrect.

Also, what yourself and many other memebrs don't understand is the labor time to replace all those intake pipes that you feel are the choke point. It's easy to make a statement saying that you should replace the intake tubes from the turbos to the airbox, when many people have never seen what it actually takes to do so. No one in their right mind is going to pay the ridiculous amount of time it would take to R&R these intake tubes, especially when you will not see any power gains even with our upgraded turbos. We have proven this already with our upgraded turbo 135i.

Lastly, the air temp increase with the BMS and Injen intake is quite a bit more than you think it is. In case you're not familiar with BMW's adaptive ignition timing advance, it is directly relative to intake temperatures. Also, from a tuning perspective, each degree of intake timing advance produces more of a hp inrease than each lb of boost. Now if your intake air temperature is increased how do you think that will affect the ignition timing advance?

AND class dismissed, Abid will be here all week to help go over your homework in terms of physics and thermodynamics.

But seriously, I cant believe that someone truly posted the AFE intake, I mean common did you even look at that closely while you were at SEMA. I am not here to bash another company but I would think that the reason that companies come out with products is to prove to be better than others. I think that if ASR did not have the backing of information that they do that they would not have started defending the product nor allowed us to market the product.

Common guys give him some time to help us realize the true gains here.
Just my $.02
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