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05-23-2014, 10:20 PM | #23 |
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05-23-2014, 10:23 PM | #24 | |
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I know I will get the typical responses, "It's his car he can do what he wants with it" but I would just like to know the reasoning behind this. No offense to OP. I am asking sincerely out of curiosity. |
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05-23-2014, 11:09 PM | #25 | |
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You've never been on a track have you? You will never understand then, which really shows in your poor reasoning. The car is capable of easily reaching 130+ on some tracks and you need brakes that can stop every single time with the same consistency of the last. BBK offers that, where you can trust the brakes more-so than normal calipers when you're pushing the car to the limit. There is no increase in stopping power/stoppig force. that is a mis-conception. I don't think you truly understand performance. Just because a car has low HP doesn't mean ANYTHING. Ever heard of Spec Miata, Spec E30, Spec 944? |
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05-23-2014, 11:35 PM | #26 | |
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Also, I'm sure upgraded rotors and pads would have sufficed as opposed to an entire BBK. I guess it's different strokes for different folks. With all the money spent to make this 128i track-able, including upgrading the diff I personally would have just bought an E46 M3. 50/50 weight distribution, LSD, 330hp, naturally aspirated straight 6 high revving, longer wheel base, and precision handling. The car is ready to be tracked from factory. But again, not my car. I respect others choices and opinions. Last edited by ..; 05-23-2014 at 11:40 PM.. |
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05-24-2014, 03:46 PM | #27 | |
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However, there are I think a few reasons a brake upgrade can make sense. Maybe not worth the money, but sense in terms of other goals. For me, as I've gotten better i've really wanted a few things in the braking setup that I don't have with stock. Being able to swap out pads easily is a big one. But, more importantly, just getting the experience of having a higher degree of modulation, particularly at threshold was a big deal for me. I only have 20k miles on the car after four years and plan on keeping it potentially another decade. So, for me, the costs can get amortized over a long period. Again, personal decision. I never said in any of my earlier posts anyone should do what i've done.
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Ohlins R&T : Swift 672 lbs/in rear-392 lbs/in front : Vorshlag (-2.7): M3 lower control arms : M3 rear subframe bushings : M3 front sway (stock rear) : Quaife LSD : Apex Arc-8 18"/8" : Breyton GTSR 18"/7.5"/8.5" : StopTech BBK (F&R) : BMW perf exhaust : Mason strut brace : BMW carbon rear lip
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05-24-2014, 03:57 PM | #28 | |
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05-24-2014, 04:03 PM | #29 |
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05-24-2014, 04:13 PM | #30 | |
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An E46 M3 is far from a track ready car. FAR. The LSD in the M is an M-Variable...not ideal of hard track use as it essentially goes to open diff as it wears down. Precision Handling? Ughh, the suspension still needs work. It is far too soft. All, once again observations from me driving my Z4M on the track. Sure, it can be tracked as is, but it needs alot of work. |
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05-24-2014, 04:16 PM | #31 | |
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Yes it would need work but remember I am only comparing it to that of a 128i. |
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05-24-2014, 09:21 PM | #32 |
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05-24-2014, 09:54 PM | #33 |
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05-24-2014, 11:31 PM | #35 | |
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On what grounds? I simply stated that upgrading your rotors and pads would be more than sufficient. |
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05-25-2014, 10:19 AM | #36 | |
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"Upgrading" rotors to slotted/drilled rotors is a great way to introduce stress concentrations into your rotor. Most, if not all, cheaper "upgraded" rotors have the slots/holes that are cut/drilled AFTER the casting process which then becomes a stress riser and a great place for premature cracking to begin. Here's a quick example of a Corvette rotor when tracked, notice where the cracks are located. Rotors used to be drilled to help gases from older design pads escape, like the old style asbestos pads. Today's compounds do not have this "gassing" and therefore do not need the holes. Rotors you see high end street cars or racing teams use that are slotted have the slots built into the original cast of the rotor, therefore not being a stress riser like cheaper alternatives. Most racing teams use slotted rotors (if allowed by the sanctioning body) to help clean the face of the pad thus reducing glazing at high speeds. Notice how the Stoptech kit in the OP has thin slots in the face of the rotor. Any drilled rotors you see on cars these days are purely for aesthetics and serve no performance advantage. And putting slotted rotors on a street car is essentially a waste of money unless you are tracking the car in which they might be justifiable. All this info has been known and backed up with research for years but most people are too lazy to do their own research besides reading product descriptions of the fancy slotted/drilled/whatever rotors. Kgolf31 might be sound like an asshole but at least he knows what he's talking about. |
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05-25-2014, 12:49 PM | #37 | |
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The only positive to drilled rotors I've seen is they can help reduce brake pad hydroplaning in very wet conditions but the negatives (cracking, loss of pad contact area, loss of heat capacity) outweigh that positive. |
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05-25-2014, 12:53 PM | #38 | |
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Ohlins R&T : Swift 672 lbs/in rear-392 lbs/in front : Vorshlag (-2.7): M3 lower control arms : M3 rear subframe bushings : M3 front sway (stock rear) : Quaife LSD : Apex Arc-8 18"/8" : Breyton GTSR 18"/7.5"/8.5" : StopTech BBK (F&R) : BMW perf exhaust : Mason strut brace : BMW carbon rear lip
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05-25-2014, 07:16 PM | #39 | |
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Lets set this all straight, we had someone come into this thread and tell OP essentially it was a waste of money, never needed...yada yada. Just disproving every statement that was provided. That is all |
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05-27-2014, 08:23 AM | #40 | |
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To make it 100% clear, BBKs do not change "stopping force". They increase heat capacity. That increase is something that is needed with any car that sees serious track use. Higher horsepower cars will need more, but that is why there is more than one size of BBK. The E46 M3 is not set up for the track out of the box. Properly driven, the stock brakes and suspension simply are not up for the task. Plus the subframe should be reinforced before you even start.
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05-28-2014, 02:26 AM | #41 |
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I feel attempting to upgrade the stock brakes in a one series is a waste of time. I really wish someone would have told me this before I spent money upgrading my brake pads to hawk hp+ with titanium shims.It worked reasonably well for one track event, only at the end of the day did the brake pedal get really soft.
So then I decided to rebuild my calipers using Racing Brake’s stainless steel caliper pistons. I heard a lot about them and how they transmit less heat to the brake fluid than the stock aluminum pistons. I also kept the titanium shims in there for added security yet 5 laps in my expensive Motul RBF 660 Pro Racing Brake Fluid boils and I'm left using my left foot to pump the brakes down the straight in an attempt to stop my brake pedal going to the floor and having me go off track. So now after spending $400 on brake pads $900 on stainless steel pistons $100 for titanium shims also bending out my dust shield I’m left with a car that can’t stop after 5 laps on track. So now I’m considering buying Racing Brake’s $1200 larger 2 piece rotors and designing some sort of brake cooling ducts or just go buy a BBK from stop tech. I really wish i just went straight to the BBK |
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05-28-2014, 04:05 AM | #42 |
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That is the same conclusion I came to. Go with the Stoptech and never look back.
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05-28-2014, 04:35 AM | #43 |
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I've just recently rebuilt my front calipers to the racing brake kit. My first track day this year is in a week. I've never had my brake fluid boil before even with my stock calipers. I did have brake fade once but that was with stoptech street performance pads up front. Since I've changed over to a dedicated track pad i haven't had any issues. I use the Carbotech XP 10 pads. Granted I'm only driving intermediate so maybe I'm not braking hard enough. I noticed the previous op ran Hawk HP+ pads. Maybe they were part of the issue. From what I've heard they will not hold up on the track.
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05-28-2014, 06:26 AM | #44 | |
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Before I went dedicated pads on my Z4M I used HP+. I got to the point where you started smelling the brakes and knew I cooked them past their usable temperature. |
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