frozen window

[Lester]

Originally Posted by turner23

Walked out to the car this morning, a balmy 28 degrees, opened the drivers door and the window didn't drop!!! I didn't notice it at first, but when I went to close the door, it bounced back open. I ended up having to hold open the door handle (from the inside) whilst slamming the door closed for it to finally latch. Additionally, the window would not go down at all. After driving a while, the car warmed up and the window began working, when I got to work the door functioned as it should. Anyone else experience this? I'm pissed that my windows would freeze the first time temps drop below freezing...I thought I gave up frozen windows when I got rid of my 17 year old Jetta!

I accidentally came across this little gem, a front window/side window outdoor cover. This will help prevent ice crystals from forming, and should prevent frozen window from occurring.

I don't know about the price - should be able to be priced/ordered by your local dealer, Dan at United or getbmwparts.com. It will have to be shipped from Germany as it is for the Hatchback.

[lib]

If you're going to argue coupe vs sedan based on the existence of a window frame then I have two questions:

When was the term "coupe" first used to describe a style of car?
When did the first car door with no window frame appear?

If the term appeared at the same time you can argue it's a requirement of a coupe.
If the term appeared before they started making frameless doors then it would be difficult to claim that the term refers to the style of door.
If the term appeared after frameless doors... well, take your pick

[Lester]

Originally Posted by lib

If you're going to argue coupe vs sedan based on the existence of a window frame then I have two questions:

When was the term "coupe" first used to describe a style of car?
When did the first car door with no window frame appear?

If the term appeared at the same time you can argue it's a requirement of a coupe.
If the term appeared before they started making frameless doors then it would be difficult to claim that the term refers to the style of door.
If the term appeared after frameless doors... well, take your pick

Sigh.... This one won't quit. But it has been a fun ride. First of all, "a rose is still a rose by any other name". By that - I mean to imply that terminology regarding automobile styling is somewhat subjective, and the word Coupe meant different things over the years. That I will concede.

In the 19th century a coupé was a closed four-wheel horse-drawn carriage, cut (coupé) to eliminate the forward, rear-facing passenger seats, with a single seat inside for two persons behind the driver, who sat on a box outside. Commonly, a coupé had a fixed glass window in the front of the body, protected from road dirt by a high curving dashboard. A landau is a coupé with a folding top.

Through the 1950s opening-roof convertible automobiles were sometimes called convertible coupés, but since the 1960s the term coupé has generally been applied exclusively to fixed-roof models. Coupés generally, but not necessarily, have two doors, although automobile makers have offered four-door coupés and three- and five-door hatchback coupés, as well. Modern coupés often have the styling feature of frameless doors, with the window glass sealing directly against a weather-strip on the main body.

The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) distinguishes a coupé from a sedan primarily by interior volume; SAE standard J1100 defines a coupé as a fixed-roof automobile with less than 33 cubic feet (0.93 cubic meters) of rear interior volume. A car with a greater interior volume is technically a two-door sedan, not a coupé, even if it has only two doors. By this standard, the Chevrolet Monte Carlo, Ferrari 612 Scaglietti, and Mercedes-Benz CL-Class coupés are all two-door sedans. Only a few sources, however (including the magazine Car and Driver), use the two-door sedan label in this manner. Some car manufacturers may nonetheless choose to use the word coupé (or coupe) to describe such a model, e.g., the Cadillac Coupe de Ville.

Alternatively, a coupé is distinguished from a two-door sedan by the lack of a "B" pillar to support the roof. Sedans have an "A" pillar forward at the windscreen, a "B" pillar aft of the door, and a "C" pillar defining the aftermost roof support at the rear window. Thus with all side-windows down, a coupé would appear windowless from the "A" to the "C" pillars. These fixed-roof models are described as a hardtop. Targa top models are a variation on the convertible design.

If we look at the above definitions (from Wikepedia), and look historically at BMW, and what they called various flavors of their cars - we note the following:

The first car ever designated as a Coupe sold by BMW was in 1939 - it was a 327. In 1940 a revised version named the 328 was very successful as a race car and won may races due to its' aerodynamic shape. Note - the early Coupe's did have two doors, and window frames in the doors.

1939 327 Coupe

1949 400 Coupe

By 1954 - the 502 coupe did not have a frame around the window. So I think the answer to one of your questions is - in the BMW world, a coupe was first sold in 1954 that had no door frames around the windows (and no 'B' pillar).This car is very pleasing to the eye. I wish I had one.

1954 502 Coupe

In 1960 there was a 700 Coupe, with a short rear seat compartment and they went back to a visible 'B' Pillar.

1960 700 Coupe

In 1965 and 1966 BMW introduced a new coupe body package in the 1800 and 2000C and CS models. These had no window frames and no ‘B’ Pillar.

1966 BMW 2000 CS Coupe

By the late 60's - the 2000CS and 2800CS defined the Coupe style for BMW and I would think the rest of the auto industry. These cars had no 'B' pillar and frameless windows.

1970 BMW 2800 CS Coupe

1974 BMW CSL 3.0 Coupe

In the 70's first of the 3 series (E21's) 1976 - 1983 were only marketed and considered as two door Saloons (Europe) or Sedans (North America). They were never called Coupes. There also was never an E30 3 Series Coupe – they were called two or four door Sedans.

BMW E21 Saloon (Sedan)- (’76-’83)

BMW E30 Series Saloon (Sedan) (’83-’91)

The first 3 Series Coupe was released in the summer of 1992 – it was the E36 and included the M3 Coupe. So remarkable was this new body style, that BMW Board Member Robert Buchelhofer said during the European release in Spain in 1992:

“Just think of the 02 series and the two 3 series in years gone by. These were genuine two door saloons (sedans) in every respect, the predecessor to the new 3 series coming with two and for the first time, four doors. And they all had something coupe-like about them. Not to mention that BMW actually ‘invented’ this kind of car in the first place.”

1993 M3 Coupe (E36)

With a lower and shorter roof, and more steeply raked windshield, the coupe became sleeker and more popular than the sedan. The first 3 series coupe sold in the US was the 1993 325is, premiering at the January 1992 Detroit International Auto Show.

1994 E36 325is Coupe

Of Course, after the E36 Series, the Coupe always has had a strong following, and were easily identified as such both in Style and Marketing documentation.

Conclusion:
I think it is safe to say – that as far as BMW automobiles are concerned; a Coupe is now defined as a two door, with a raked windshield and sloping rear window, a short trunk lid, no frame around the door windows and a disguised ‘B’ pillar. As in the 1-series coupe, the ‘B’ pillar is hidden behind the rear window tint, so as to give the styling effect that no ‘B’ pillar exists.

1 Series Coupe – note the rear side window has an extra wide black tint along the front edge to hide/disguise the ‘B’ pillar.

I hope we can put this one to bed now.

References:

“The Original” – The BMW 3 Series: Concept, Technology, Design. Hans-Herman Braess [BMW Group Mobile Tradition 2001]

“The Ultimate History of BMW” – Andrew Noakes [Parragon Publishing 2005]

“BMW 3 Series” – Jeremy Walton [Bentley Publishers 2001]

[plexiglass]

Is there anyway to separate this forum? It is a frozen window thread....not a coupe v sedan thread. How am I supposed to point out other One owners are having frozen window problems to the dealer??

[Lester]

It all happened on the 5th of December.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbenington86
yeah iv had this happen to me a couple times already and im not happy about it at all... i still dont see why bmw hasnt put the door frame all the way around the window

Then it would be called a sedan instead of a coupe.

[atr_hugo]

OK - there is a new thread that Lester created that can be used for continuation of the Coupe vs Sedan terminology. It's here: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...315#post313315

This thread should now be devoted solely to 'Frozen Window'. Thanks!

[turner23]

...has been doing a lot of data fabrication throughout this conversation.

[Lester]

Originally Posted by turner23

...has been doing a lot of data fabrication throughout this conversation.

Turner - you started this great post. Thanks for that. How are your windows, still frozen or what?

May I politely inquire as to the nature of the aforementioned 'data fabrication'?

Lester

[turner23]

Although we've seen much colder temps, freezing rain, and snow since I began this post, my windows only froze the once. Lester, my quip about the data-fab was aimed at Wikipedia, as it is generally not accepted as a reliable source...not to mention, someone else suggested that you wrote the article yourself.

Not sure why this thread still continues to run, many of us have experienced the same problem, and the best solution is to run a heater while it's cold to prevent water freezing (not practical/worth the effort, IMO). I avoid covers like the plague as they always to seem to scratch the car, no matter what material they're made of.

And for the other topic, it's clear there is no right/wrong answer. Various companies have marketed 2-door cars as coupes and sedans.

I vote we close this thread.

[bmore135]

i read through a little of this thread so idk if this has already been posted... still i love my 135 and would never give it up for a 370z.... everrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!