Best Damper Setup for DD

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Right... but how much worse is the comfort? I don't see how it's possible to make a car less comfortable than a 1 series.

I would think the comfort with the Koni yellows would be improved. The car will be much more predictable and the stock pogo-stick/seesaw will be greatly muted. Most of the discomfort of aftermarket suspension can be attributed to stiff lowering springs(Bilsteins add spring rate by design, which is why they feel stiffer) or poorly adjusted dampers. Koni yellows on 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn off full soft will provide a highly compliant ride with vastly improved performance.

To put it in real terms, I have both my mother and fiance on Koni yellows, which they love. I presume you can handle at least what my mother can.

[128Convertibleguy]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Not really, the FSDs are purely a comfort focused shock. When pushed to the limit they completely fall on their face and require much more frequent rebuild/replacement intervals.

Tirerack doesn't think they are purely a comfort oriented shock or that they "completely fall on their face" when pushed hard. And they did take them to the limit. They handled substantially better than stock, and were indistinguishable from yellows on full soft, which rode much worse.

"The KONI FSD shock combines excellent road holding and handing characteristics with high comfort levels. Firmness for sporty driving on even road surfaces. Smoothness for a comfortable ride on uneven road surfaces. It's possible via KONI's patented Frequency Selective Damping technology — technology that actively controls the damping level on the basis of the vehicle's body and suspension movement frequency."

As far as reliability, they have the same Koni lifetime guarantee as the yellows. Some people have had issues when using them with non stock springs, which Koni specifically warns against.

Did you read the Tirerack test? Real, professionally gathered numerical data on handling, not opinion. The ride judgement is subjective, of course, but that's the part that wasn't close. Tirerack sells both models, so they care little which people buy.

They're not the right choice for most people here, including you. Most people here who change shocks want max handling. Most change springs. Most want to manually adjust their shocks. But for the niche including me who want a balance of ride and handling, stock springs, and basically automatic adjustment, the FSDs work very well. Do an Internet search, they have a strong following.

[e36addict]

Go with a set of Koni yellows, BMWP springs, Whiteline full poly rear sub bushings, and an M3 front sway bar. That's it!

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy

Tirerack doesn't think they are purely a comfort oriented shock or that they "completely fall on their face" when pushed hard. And they did take them to the limit. They handled substantially better than stock, and were indistinguishable from yellows on full soft, which rode much worse.

"The KONI FSD shock combines excellent road holding and handing characteristics with high comfort levels. Firmness for sporty driving on even road surfaces. Smoothness for a comfortable ride on uneven road surfaces. It's possible via KONI's patented Frequency Selective Damping technology — technology that actively controls the damping level on the basis of the vehicle's body and suspension movement frequency."

As far as reliability, they have the same Koni lifetime guarantee as the yellows. Some people have had issues when using them with non stock springs, which Koni specifically warns against.

Did you read the Tirerack test? Real, professionally gathered numerical data on handling, not opinion. The ride judgement is subjective, of course, but that's the part that wasn't close. Tirerack sells both models, so they care little which people buy.

They're not the right choice for most people here, including you. Most people here who change shocks want max handling. Most change springs. Most want to manually adjust their shocks. But for the niche including me who want a balance of ride and handling, stock springs, and basically automatic adjustment, the FSDs work very well. Do an Internet search, they have a strong following.

I've driven FSDs quite a fair bit, and my view on them is hardly an isolated case. They are supremely comfortable, and then utterly fall apart at the limit. You are certainly free to purchase what you want that reflects your driving style.

As far as rebuild intervals go, Koni's warranty doesn't cover that. It covers manufacturing defects and failure, not wear.

[128Convertibleguy]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

I've driven FSDs quite a fair bit, and my view on them is hardly an isolated case. They are supremely comfortable, and then utterly fall apart at the limit. You are certainly free to purchase what you want that reflects your driving style.

We agree. Your viewpoint is hardly an isolated case (it's probably a majority view of those here with mods). Neither is mine.

It's a similar philosophy to choosing ultra high performance all seasons like the Michelin A/S 3s as a three season tire. On a dry warm summer day, that's a substantial performance hit compared to PSS, even more significant than the difference between FSDs and yellows. Those of us who go there accept that hit in return for consistent predictable handling in adverse conditions, such as cold and wet weather. And better wear.

Your car will go around a track considerably faster than mine. But mine will drive quite briskly on a mountain road, substantially faster and much better behaved than stock. And then cruise down the straights with a soft but well controlled ride over the bumps, also much better than stock.

That's FSD territory. Tirerack, who took them to the limit, says nothing about them remotely like "utterly fall apart". I cannot guarantee the OP would be happier with FSDs than yellows. But I strongly suspect he would, based on the original post. That's not an isolated case either.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy

We agree. Your viewpoint is hardly an isolated case (it's probably a majority view of those here with mods). Neither is mine.

It's a similar philosophy to choosing ultra high performance all seasons like the Michelin A/S 3s as a three season tire. On a dry warm summer day, that's a substantial performance hit compared to PSS, even more significant than the difference between FSDs and yellows. Those of us who go there accept that hit in return for consistent predictable handling in adverse conditions, such as cold and wet weather. And better wear.

Your car will go around a track considerably faster than mine. But mine will drive quite briskly on a mountain road, substantially faster and much better behaved than stock. And then cruise down the straights with a soft but well controlled ride over the bumps, also much better than stock.

That's FSD territory. Tirerack, who took them to the limit, says nothing about them remotely like "utterly fall apart". I cannot guarantee the OP would be happier with FSDs than yellows. But I strongly suspect he would, based on the original post. That's not an isolated case either.

As someone who has two cars on PSS and another on AS/3s, there is a world of difference between them. And for the record, I love them both for what they offer.

I suspect based on your posting that you don't push your car to the limit, which is perfectly fine. Your choices suit your driving style well. If I lived in the city or some other area with terrible roads and no chance to stretch my car's legs, I would absolutely have FSDs with AS/3s on something like an E39 530i.

None of this relates to tracking.

[Olgeezer1]

Love the ride w/Bilstein HD's, stock Msport springs and non-runflat tires. Don't find it harsh at all. Most of the original harshness came from those cursed runflats.

[sour97]

ohlins R&T worth every penny

[128Convertibleguy]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

I suspect based on your posting that you don't push your car to the limit, which is perfectly fine.

None of this relates to tracking.

It certainly doesn't apply to the track. Except for the reason I don't push my car to the limit on the street. I raced wheel to wheel for years. After that, driving at the "limit" on the street seems, well, silly. Doesn't bat in the same league. Danger without reward.

I do move right along sometimes. <grin> FSDs place is on the street, and they do that very well, unless you're happier with a track setup even on the street. Which many people are. In that context a slightly rough ride can be part of the fun.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by Olgeezer1

Love the ride w/Bilstein HD's, stock Msport springs and non-runflat tires. Don't find it harsh at all. Most of the original harshness came from those cursed runflats.

Happy to have helped!

Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy

It certainly doesn't apply to the track. Except for the reason I don't push my car to the limit on the street. I raced wheel to wheel for years. After that, driving at the "limit" on the street seems, well, silly. Doesn't bat in the same league. Danger without reward.

I do move right along sometimes. <grin> FSDs place is on the street, and they do that very well, unless you're happier with a track setup even on the street. Which many people are. In that context a slightly rough ride can be part of the fun.

We aren't really pretending that Koni Yellows are a track setup now are we?

[cbl117]

OP, I have Bilstein HDs with BMW performance springs on my DD and I've found the setup to be great.

Here's a brief write up with pics of ride height difference:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=13

[128Convertibleguy]

Originally Posted by cbl117

OP, I have Bilstein HDs with BMW performance springs on my DD and I found the setup to the great.

Here's a brief write up with pics of ride height difference:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=13

From the OP. "I do not want to lower the car at all"

A major reason I could recommend FSDs. They're engineered for stock ride height, and Koni recommends against their use with stiffer than stock springs. They're not appropriate for most people who do mods here, but there is a niche for them.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy

From the OP. "I do not want to lower the car at all"

A major reason I could recommend FSDs. They're engineered for stock ride height, and Koni recommends against their use with stiffer than stock springs. They're not appropriate for most people who do mods here, but there is a niche for them.

Bilstein HDs are also designed for stock ride height. As are yellows.

[swagon]

This thread was helpful. Thanks Stig for sharing your experiences! Hope acquire some much needed stuff before winter.

[ASAP]

Got a chance to drive a car w KW streets as well as the m3 subframe bushings... wow it felt solid.

[128Convertibleguy]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Got a chance to drive a car w KW streets as well as the m3 subframe bushings... wow it felt solid.

If you liked that, you won't get the same feeling with stock springs and FSDs.

It's all taste, but I can give you a clue. Stiffer springs and dampers to match, like the KW streets , and M3 bushings, turn the car into a sports car, with a sports car ride. You can tweak the settings, like ride height(if you get coilovers like the KWs) and damping. Stock springs and FSDs and bushing inserts remove the slop that BMW designed in to handle the runflats, giving you a well behaved sport touring car, with a touring car ride. Non-adjustable, but, in my opinion, they're also not necessary for the purpose.

Stock spring rates are something like 120/350, BMW performance something like 160/420, KW streets something like 275/575. More clues.

It's just a case of how far you want to go, and what ride penalty you want to accept to get there. You might like to read this, even though it's a 3 series.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=902346

It's all a bit of a gamble, since there are few good objective comparisons like the Tirerack back to back test of yellows and FSDs. Mostly just subjective stuff here from people you don't know, although there are clues about what they value in their posts. Clearly TheStig values ultimate performance more than I do, and I value ride more than he does. Neither of us like the slop you get from a stock BMW these days.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Happy to have helped!



We aren't really pretending that Koni Yellows are a track setup now are we?

Define a track setup. Are they on the same level of MCS and other $3k setups? No but they can certainly hold their own for track days. In fact certain Spec racing series only allow Koni Yellows. I'm pretty sure I could have fun and put down decent times on my near stock 1-er with just Koni Yellows + Dinan or Performance Springs.

[jake1220]

Just thought I'd chime in. I'm running the Michelin Pilot Sport AS/3 tires. Stock sizes. Last weekend In had Koni Yellows and Whiteline RSFB inserts installed. It has made a huge difference. The rear end feels planted now. The car feels much more predictable now. Even small things like switching lanes on the highway feels better. Absolutely no negative impact on ride comfort. I highly suggest these mods.

[Iron Man]

Every time I think I know what direction to go with my suspension, I read a thread like this and it makes my head hurt.

I think at this point, going with Koni Yellows or Bilstein HDs are about a wash. For more comfort, go with the Koni FSB's.

Now when it comes down to actually choosing which one to buy, I might just flip a coin or go with whatever is the cheapest at the time.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by jake1220

Just thought I'd chime in. I'm running the Michelin Pilot Sport AS/3 tires. Stock sizes. Last weekend In had Koni Yellows and Whiteline RSFB inserts installed. It has made a huge difference. The rear end feels planted now. The car feels much more predictable now. Even small things like switching lanes on the highway feels better. Absolutely no negative impact on ride comfort. I highly suggest these mods.

Where did u buy your inserts? Absolutely no one has them now.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by 3002 tii

Define a track setup. Are they on the same level of MCS and other $3k setups? No but they can certainly hold their own for track days. In fact certain Spec racing series only allow Koni Yellows. I'm pretty sure I could have fun and put down decent times on my near stock 1-er with just Koni Yellows + Dinan or Performance Springs.

I would define a track setup as something that sacrifices street-ability for outright performance, often with short rebuild intervals or high wear rates and the intent to only be used on nice weather days.

In this case, anyone who has upgraded to just Koni yellows with the proper adjustment will agree they are just as comfortable as stock. FSDs would be dramatically more comfortable than stock. Bilstein HDs would be slightly less comfortable than stock.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

I would define a track setup as something that sacrifices street-ability for outright performance, often with short rebuild intervals or high wear rates and the intent to only be used on nice weather days.

In this case, anyone who has upgraded to just Koni yellows with the proper adjustment will agree they are just as comfortable as stock. FSDs would be dramatically more comfortable than stock. Bilstein HDs would be slightly less comfortable than stock.

I would define my car as a track setup and it rides fine.

A track setup doesn't have to compromise ride quality.