BBK for a 128i

[pj.rodriguez]

Hello,

I am just wondering if anyone here has a BBK installed on their 128i? Just curious because I was in talks with the guys at Stoptech and well, here's their email to me yesterday.

"Patrick,

I've confirmed with our engineering group that a kit for 128i has not been produced and that any listing of a kit for that vehicle would be in error.

The kit in question, 83.161.6700.xx only applies to the non-US spec 120i models which do not have expected compatibility with the US 128i models.

At this point it does not appear we will be producing a kit specifically for the 128i making stock sized sport pads, rotors and lines the only options we can provide.
Let us know if you have any questions."

What do you guys think? Are there any BBK companies out there that do make a 128i kit?

I was asking him about interchangeability between the E90 bbk and E82/88 BBK, and he had mentioned that the piston engineering is much different and should not be interchanged between cars. So, for anyone who has a BBK on a 128i, what do you have?!

[Dafttt]

Besides the BMWPBK?

Either way, just get wider tires up front.

[pj.rodriguez]

Originally Posted by Daft Auto

Besides the BMWPBK?

Either way, just get wider tires up front.

Yeah, I'm not looking to just jump right in and buy a BBK anyway. I was just curious to see what companies had to offer for our cars. When spring comes, I'm ditching my staggered setup to go with 235 all around on either 17 or 18s. Not sure which way yet.

[Dafttt]

Originally Posted by pj.rodriguez

Yeah, I'm not looking to just jump right in and buy a BBK anyway. I was just curious to see what companies had to offer for our cars. When spring comes, I'm ditching my staggered setup to go with 235 all around on either 17 or 18s. Not sure which way yet.

Sounds like a good start.

I don't think there's any "kits" available because of our rear hub, but the fronts should fit. But honestly when it comes to brakes, anything's possible with enough money.

Here, check this thread out:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=760774

[andrey_gta]

Switching to the 135i rear hub can be done via junk parts or ebay wrecker from wrecked 335i's or 328xi's. I think both have all the required handbrake parts to work with 135i bbk rears, except maybe the 135i wheel hub onto which the wheel bots to, not the knuckle itself cuz that is shared between #35i and xi models.

For you there is a BMW wrecker in Toronto/milton with quite a few options ( no shipping and no customs fee) on Kijiji

On a side note - check if your desired 135i kit retains handbrake to begin with. I think only Stoptech does. Otherwise a 135i kit bolts on, with no handbrake

[pj.rodriguez]

So you're saying if I basically switch over to a 135 rear hub, I can get any BBK that fits a 135? What about the front assembly?

[Kgolf31]

Any reason for a desire to get a BBK? Just wondering.

[pj.rodriguez]

No not at all. I was just wondering why some vendors on here are trying to sell a BBK for a 128i when there is none at all. (Also going off of a thread that we posted on before, PFC doesn't make pads for the stock 128i calipers btw)

I was just asking around to see what people had to say about a BBK in general and about a BBK for the 128i. It's not worth any money to get a BBK for our cars anyway. Some good rotors and pads would do the trick, I'm sure. I'm just still stuck on which way to go in terms of pads and rotors!

[andrey_gta]

Originally Posted by pj.rodriguez

So you're saying if I basically switch over to a 135 rear hub, I can get any BBK that fits a 135? What about the front assembly?

you need two items per side:
Knuckle from 135i/335i/328xi/325xi
Hub from 135i may be required, it is on the 130i hatch. Bearing might be needed if its part of hub.

[Blacksport]

Originally Posted by pj.rodriguez

Hello,

I am just wondering if anyone here has a BBK installed on their 128i? Just curious because I was in talks with the guys at Stoptech and well, here's their email to me yesterday.

What do you guys think? Are there any BBK companies out there that do make a 128i kit?

What's wrong with the BMW/Brembo performance kit? I've installed one on my 128 and I can tell you it's a huge improvement over the stock front brakes.....

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by pj.rodriguez

No not at all. I was just wondering why some vendors on here are trying to sell a BBK for a 128i when there is none at all. (Also going off of a thread that we posted on before, PFC doesn't make pads for the stock 128i calipers btw)

I was just asking around to see what people had to say about a BBK in general and about a BBK for the 128i. It's not worth any money to get a BBK for our cars anyway. Some good rotors and pads would do the trick, I'm sure. I'm just still stuck on which way to go in terms of pads and rotors!

Gotcha. I would assume (and hope) PFC gets their game together and gets some track pads up for the 128.

IMO, Unless you're doing time trials, or some other sort of racing event, or you're just trying to shed as much weight as possible, you do not need a BBK.

Doing a HPDE, with proper track pads and fluid, simply taking it easy on a lap will help cool down the pads.

Originally Posted by Blacksport

What's wrong with the BMW/Brembo performance kit? I've installed one on my 128 and I can tell you it's a huge improvement over the stock front brakes.....

Because it is heavier than 128 OEM, thus adding more moment of inertia and slowing the car down.

And how is it a huge difference?

Do you feel that you can stop faster? Because that is a myth. You may get some better pedal feel. That is about it


Unless you upgraded tires, like someone else said in this thread, braking is all dependent on the tires.

[pj.rodriguez]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Gotcha. I would assume (and hope) PFC gets their game together and gets some track pads up for the 128.

IMO, Unless you're doing time trials, or some other sort of racing event, or you're just trying to shed as much weight as possible, you do not need a BBK.

Doing a HPDE, with proper track pads and fluid, simply taking it easy on a lap will help cool down the pads.

That's the issue. Getting pads that fit and that perform well (and a company that makes both street and race pads to reduce swapping rotors all the time)!

And I emailed PFC asking about this, and they said there are no plans to make a pad!

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by pj.rodriguez

That's the issue. Getting pads that fit and that perform well (and a company that makes both street and race pads to reduce swapping rotors all the time)!

And I emailed PFC asking about this, and they said there are no plans to make a pad!

Hawk should have DTC or HT Pads.

I'll let you know next year, but I'll be running PFC 06 pads for track and Hawk HP+ for street. Just gotta make sure you prep the rotor correctly when you swap pads and shouldn't have an issue.

[Blacksport]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Because it is heavier than 128 OEM, thus adding more moment of inertia and slowing the car down.

And how is it a huge difference?

Do you feel that you can stop faster? Because that is a myth. You may get some better pedal feel. That is about it


Unless you upgraded tires, like someone else said in this thread, braking is all dependent on the tires.

Stop faster? Are you kidding? Oh, that's the reason all race cars have 10" rotors, because 16" rotors don't work any better, and they're too heavy... The stock 128 setup isn't even close to the BMW/Brembo setup...yes, I went to 18" wheels and max-performance summer tires, but they were installed before the brakes....this is my 4th BBK installation, if you think I'd have done that many for no improvement in braking.....the brakes simply have more leverage with 13" rotors over 11" rotors....don't believe me? Loosen a lug nut with a 1/2" breaker bar, but grip it down the handle close to the pivot...now go out to the end of the bar....and tell me which is easier.....and frankly, if this setup weighs more than the stock mouse brakes, who cares....come down here and drive it if you don't think there's any improvement...I guarantee you will order a set right after your test drive....

[pj.rodriguez]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Hawk should have DTC or HT Pads.

I'll let you know next year, but I'll be running PFC 06 pads for track and Hawk HP+ for street. Just gotta make sure you prep the rotor correctly when you swap pads and shouldn't have an issue.

Yeah... But it's the prepping that I'm trying to avoid. lol. Is that me being lazy? Probably. I wish PFC made pads. I'm happy they have pads for the Z4M. Do you think I could run HPS for street and DTC for track? Or should I not go for a full track pad? Because if you use the same company, generally you don't have to do any prep switching back and forth?

Sorry. I'm new to brake upgrades.

[TheSt|G]

Brembo makes a 130i kit that should fit under 17" wheels. Look for 1A2.6027A and 1A5.6010A, which are their 328mm and 330mm kits for our cars. Probably the route I will eventually go.

http://www.brembo.com/it/Auto/Racing/Prodotti-strada/Documents/GT-GTR-RACING%20PACK%20Application%20list.pdf

Originally Posted by Blacksport

What's wrong with the BMW/Brembo performance kit? I've installed one on my 128 and I can tell you it's a huge improvement over the stock front brakes.....

That garbage shouldn't even be mentioned in a thread about real BBKs.

[Blacksport]

Thanks for the lesson on brakes, STG, but I got a pretty good handle on them, having raced in SCCA & IMSA for 20 years, including a first-in-class win (9th overall) in an RX-7 at Sebring...that car was running carbon rotors and pads, which Mazda competition gave only to full-sponsored teams...we were the only exception.

What is a 130is? Isn't that a 4-door hatchback?

[pj.rodriguez]

Originally Posted by Blacksport

What is a 130is? Isn't that a 4-door hatchback?

It's theSt|g's US Spec 130is. Specifically. One-of-a-kind.

[Dafttt]

They're not garbage, but they're nothing special. You mainly buy them for the look, and they look goooood.

The rotors and pads differ from a stock 135i. Throw in new fluids / stainless steel brake lines, maybe change your front bumper to M-sport to allow more cooling, and you've got a decent little kit. At least I think I do.

I don't track my car so piston upgrades aren't relevant. In my opinion, so are noisy, abrasive $3k BBK's. IMO, they are a decent middle ground.

[Blacksport]

Originally Posted by Daft Auto

They're not garbage, but they're nothing special. You mainly buy them for the look, and they look goooood.

The rotors and pads differ from a stock 135i. Throw in new fluids / stainless steel brake lines, maybe change your front bumper to M-sport to allow more cooling, and you've got a decent little kit. At least I think I do.

I don't track my car so piston upgrades aren't relevant. In my opinion, so are noisy, abrasive $3k BBK's. IMO, they are a decent middle ground.

Brake cooling is everything in endurance racing...everything. Air from big front air dam holes was ducted onto aluminum housings that surrounded the rotor like a caliper, plus we ran fans over the BBS wheels...even then it was touch-and-go late in the race...I still remember flying down the Sebring back straight and just praying I could get it slowed down enough for the fast and slippery 180 going onto the pit straight....BTW, that finish was 6th overall, not 9th...1st in GTU...still sweet after 30 years.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by Blacksport

Stop faster? Are you kidding? Oh, that's the reason all race cars have 10" rotors, because 16" rotors don't work any better, and they're too heavy... The stock 128 setup isn't even close to the BMW/Brembo setup...yes, I went to 18" wheels and max-performance summer tires, but they were installed before the brakes....this is my 4th BBK installation, if you think I'd have done that many for no improvement in braking.....the brakes simply have more leverage with 13" rotors over 11" rotors....don't believe me? Loosen a lug nut with a 1/2" breaker bar, but grip it down the handle close to the pivot...now go out to the end of the bar....and tell me which is easier.....and frankly, if this setup weighs more than the stock mouse brakes, who cares....come down here and drive it if you don't think there's any improvement...I guarantee you will order a set right after your test drive....

BMW BBKs are heavier than 128 OEM Brakes. Where did I say that Brembo or any legit big brake kits are heavy? Please quote me.

If you're going like pad for like pad on a conversion to BBK, you will not stop any faster. Bigger rotors, and thus pads have better surface contact which help provide consistent, linear braking. A more aggressive pad will have more initial torque.


Oh, and not ALL race cars run BBKs. Ever heard of World Challenge, Spec E30, Spec 944, Spec Miata, BMW CCA IS....etc. All of then run track pads and are perfectly fine.
http://www.world-challenge.com/series.php?page=carfacts


I've driving my Z4M on the track with my stock calipers, rotors and aftermarket pads and have been perfectly fine stopping from 135 down the back straight at mid-ohio, with no fadding during 30 minute sessions.


The only advantage to BBKs is heat rejection.

Originally Posted by pj.rodriguez

Yeah... But it's the prepping that I'm trying to avoid. lol. Is that me being lazy? Probably. I wish PFC made pads. I'm happy they have pads for the Z4M. Do you think I could run HPS for street and DTC for track? Or should I not go for a full track pad? Because if you use the same company, generally you don't have to do any prep switching back and forth?

Sorry. I'm new to brake upgrades.

Have you driven on the track yet? Going full bore track pad will end up with you braking like crap. Braking on the track takes some work, and IMO if you run a HP+ or like pad for the first event or too, it might help you learn what to do and not to do.

If you're going to be removing pads, the bit of extra time to prep the rotor won't be the end of the world, IMO.

The first couple times on the track, you won't be able to use a track pad effectively.

[Blacksport]

I'm not going to argue with you, Kgolf, but just a couple of points: the BMW/Brembo BBK is heavier than the stock 128 setup: who cares? Yes, moment-of-inertia and gyroscopic effect have changed a little, but you won't feel it; but you'll definitely feel the better brakes.

"You will not stop any faster"? Think of it this way: you push the brake pedal firmly, but not activating the anti-lock, let's say the pressure on the brake line is 1000psi...that pressure has an EASIER time stopping a 13" rotor than an 11" rotor...it's simple physics...