AGM or standard battery?

[germ]

Still on original 2008 battery, lost time twice after last Sunday car wash. Not sure if that's related to the wash, but it's probably time to replace the battery anyway.

I have read many threads here and the procedure is clear to me. The only question that has not been answered is the advantage of an AGM battery vs. conventional. I can get a Costco (conventional) battery for $136, or an AutoZone AGM one for up to $200.

Which one would you get and why?

Thanks.

[The Wind Breezes]

Lithium because it's a lot lighter and you can also put it up front and remove the heavy cable.

I got a conventional battery because it was inexpensive and I wasn't in the mood to dump money into the car at the time. Make sure to vent it to the exterior and you'll be good to go for a few years. And register and all that.

[Traf]

And where would you find the space up front ?
Also i'm not sure lithium would like the heat of the engine bay.

[germ]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

Lithium because it's a lot lighter and you can also put it up front and remove the heavy cable.

Sorry, not going to do that.

Will look into Li. Didn't find much info on AGM v. Conventional.

[zx10guy]

As mentioned, Lithium is a lot lighter than a conventional battery. I have one installed in my Ducati 848. When I ordered the battery, I received the shipping box and thought the vendor screwed me out of the battery. The box was so light. My fears were calmed when I opened the box and the battery was in there.

As far as heat, the battery is located right up against the motor next to the horizontal cylinder and behind both the radiator and oil cooler. So far the heat hasn't done any damage to the battery. And the battery cranks out so much more amperage for its size, my bike's engine cranks over so much better now.

[Bimmer-Bob]

Originally Posted by germ

Sorry, not going to do that.

Will look into Li. Didn't find much info on AGM v. Conventional.

Look online at Pep Boys. They've been running a battery promotion for a while, something like 25 or 35% off. I picked up two top-of-the line Bosch S6 AGM batteries for about $180/ea after tax (with free shipping). I could've gotten a $15 core charge refunded on top of that, but the nearest Pep Boys is over an hour away from me, so I took the old battery to O'Reillys for a $10 store credit instead.

Make sure you code AND register the battery (these are two different things).

I didn't weigh the batteries, so I don't know how much lighter the AGM one is.

Here's some information on AGM advantages, if you want to read it. Basically they last longer, charge more quickly, discharge less quickly, better tolerate "deep cycling" (i.e., discharging >50% of total capacity), and are considered generally more robust. Also no leaking if tipped, of course.

Overkill? Maybe. But for about $40 more then the price you quoted for a conventional wet cell battery, I think it's worth it (and that's before factoring in the core charge refund).

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

Lithium because it's a lot lighter and you can also put it up front and remove the heavy cable.

I got a conventional battery because it was inexpensive and I wasn't in the mood to dump money into the car at the time. Make sure to vent it to the exterior and you'll be good to go for a few years. And register and all that.

I don't think lithium batteries are there yet. Have heard of several car fires at the track caused by an overheating lithium. The fires are also extremely toxic.

[The Wind Breezes]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

I don't think lithium batteries are there yet. Have heard of several car fires at the track caused by an overheating lithium. The fires are also extremely toxic.

Lots of people buy no-name chinese crap and install it without having a clue. Do not buy chinese cells. Lots of name brand cells are made in china, that's fine, but non big name cells are to be avoided at all costs. Also you need to make sure the voltage in your charging system is compatible with the battery and don't put it somewhere that gets too hot.

Lithium has been "there" for almost 20 years, it just didn't become affordable until the last few years. All those horrors you mention are caused either by manufacturing defects (extremely rare these days) physical damage to the battery (you wouldn't cut a fuel line and then hope the car is safe...also can be prevented by protecting the battery) or through improper charging or discharge.

You can avoid the last issue 100% by using lithium iron chemistry. LiFePo4 car battery is what you would search for. It's not as lightweight as high discharge RC Lipo lithium cobalt, which would be under 1 lb forthe amount required to start the car, but it is very very safe and won't do any of the stuff you've gotten scared off of batteries from. You can still get a battery well under 10 lbs, but of course you need to remember that you have reduced capacity when the car's turned off.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

Lots of people buy no-name chinese crap and install it without having a clue. Do not buy chinese cells. Lots of name brand cells are made in china, that's fine, but non big name cells are to be avoided at all costs. Also you need to make sure the voltage in your charging system is compatible with the battery and don't put it somewhere that gets too hot.

Lithium has been "there" for almost 20 years, it just didn't become affordable until the last few years. All those horrors you mention are caused either by manufacturing defects (extremely rare these days) physical damage to the battery (you wouldn't cut a fuel line and then hope the car is safe...also can be prevented by protecting the battery) or through improper charging or discharge.

You can avoid the last issue 100% by using lithium iron chemistry. LiFePo4 car battery is what you would search for. It's not as lightweight as high discharge RC Lipo lithium cobalt, which would be under 1 lb forthe amount required to start the car, but it is very very safe and won't do any of the stuff you've gotten scared off of batteries from. You can still get a battery well under 10 lbs, but of course you need to remember that you have reduced capacity when the car's turned off.

It was a LiFePo4 that caught fire at a recent Chump car race. Guess it could not handle that kind of abuse.

[The Wind Breezes]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

It was a LiFePo4 that caught fire at a recent Chump car race. Guess it could not handle that kind of abuse.

Citation please. LiFePO4 is about as fireproof as it gets. Also that's a really ignorant comment, of course they can handle "that kind of abuse" assuming you're just taking about being in a race car. Chump car is really tame stuff. There are a bunch of bikes at my local motocross track running lithium batteries as they fly thru the air land jumps and hit the whoops hard. None of them have caught fire.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

Citation please. LiFePO4 is about as fireproof as it gets. Also that's a really ignorant comment, of course they can handle "that kind of abuse" assuming you're just taking about being in a race car. Chump car is really tame stuff. There are a bunch of bikes at my local motocross track running lithium batteries as they fly thru the air land jumps and hit the whoops hard. None of them have caught fire.

I will see if I can find the video. Chump car actually posted it.

[germ]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

Look online at Pep Boys. They've been running a battery promotion for a while, something like 25 or 35% off. I picked up two top-of-the line Bosch S6 AGM batteries for about $180/ea after tax (with free shipping). I could've gotten a $15 core charge refunded on top of that, but the nearest Pep Boys is over an hour away from me, so I took the old battery to O'Reillys for a $10 store credit instead.

Make sure you code AND register the battery (these are two different things).

I didn't weigh the batteries, so I don't know how much lighter the AGM one is.

Here's some information on AGM advantages, if you want to read it. Basically they last longer, charge more quickly, discharge less quickly, better tolerate "deep cycling" (i.e., discharging >50% of total capacity), and are considered generally more robust. Also no leaking if tipped, of course.

Overkill? Maybe. But for about $40 more then the price you quoted for a conventional wet cell battery, I think it's worth it (and that's before factoring in the core charge refund).

Thanks for mentioning Pep Boys. They do have a 30% promotion on an AGM battery that would fit.

After reading up on AGM, and considering that the current battery lasted 9.5 years (!), I think I can safely install a conventional battery--it will outlast this car.

And forget about Li: very expensive.

[iminhell1]

Li, if I recall, takes a different charging schedule than a traditional lead acid. And for automotive use, I really doubt they like fast 600 Amp discharges. I don't care what some guy who doesn't run one in his car says, Don't be the guinea pig. Stick to what is proven and able to be coded to the car.


And FWIW, a buddy of mine is running a AntiGravity Li in his (always broke down) race car. The car/battery started on fire earlier this year. He claims it was because of loose connections. I say it's because of the battery ... and he also has other electrical problems that can't be tracked down but all seem to have started with the battery change. He won't listen to me that he needs to at least try a traditional battery to rule it out.

[Tommm]

I am pretty sure my car came with an AGM.