New closed Intake for BMW 135i - ASR / BRracing

[ridin135]

To me there is no intake worth 1500 I dont care if it gave me 20whp.

[brracing]

Just to keep this fresh....we've installed on other cars, and everyone....has had great feedkback and seat of the pants reaction compared to what they had just before the install.
But...no question, we have not taken the time to get a set of dyno runs of both before and after and then post the dyno's, cause we continue to do other mods to the car. We will be at Laguna Seca this coming Monday, happy to take anyone for a wild ride and demonstrate the power we are getting w the simple, yet effective mods done to the engine (Powerchip software, ASR intake, ASR/TIAL BOV and charge pipe, Evolution Raceworks IC, custom center section exhaust, Meisterschaft GT race rear section).
No question that it's hard to believe and take the stand without hard data....but, we're also happy to run our car alongside anyone with any other mods, and demonstrate the results. Our track times also show the results (but the track times are also affected by all the suspension and chassis work we have done).
PS - LOVE the new APEX wheels on our car...pics coming after the event this coming weekend....what a GREAT fitment and the HUGE tires you can get under the stock fenders....WOW (and you can get the APEX wheels from us as well).
Cheers....flame jacket on.

[1NNO_35]

Yeh.. I might go with the APEX in the future but this CAIntake seems not to develope into a goldmine for you.

Good luck for the future tho BRR !

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by brracing

Just to keep this fresh....we've installed on other cars, and everyone....has had great feedkback and seat of the pants reaction compared to what they had just before the install.
But...no question, we have not taken the time to get a set of dyno runs of both before and after and then post the dyno's, cause we continue to do other mods to the car. We will be at Laguna Seca this coming Monday, happy to take anyone for a wild ride and demonstrate the power we are getting w the simple, yet effective mods done to the engine (Powerchip software, ASR intake, ASR/TIAL BOV and charge pipe, Evolution Raceworks IC, custom center section exhaust, Meisterschaft GT race rear section).
No question that it's hard to believe and take the stand without hard data....but, we're also happy to run our car alongside anyone with any other mods, and demonstrate the results. Our track times also show the results (but the track times are also affected by all the suspension and chassis work we have done).
PS - LOVE the new APEX wheels on our car...pics coming after the event this coming weekend....what a GREAT fitment and the HUGE tires you can get under the stock fenders....WOW (and you can get the APEX wheels from us as well).
Cheers....flame jacket on.

I hate to bust your chops about this, but I'm going to anyway.

How can you guys sell a $1500 airbox when you haven't even done any significant R&D (meaning dyno runs) to know what the effects of the design are on power and A/F ratio across the RPM range? To command that kind of price, I'd expect some pretty significant testing to have been done, and some data to prove it's worth it. In addition, the part looks pretty unrefined.

I'll take an unrefined looking part if it performs well, and is cost effective, but you're charging Dinan money for something a lot of us could fab up ourselves? I just don't see anything about this airbox that makes it worth anything remotely close to $1500. Quite honestly I have yet to see a single airbox or open element design that makes a significant gain, even on modified cars. Even the Dinan design (which looks like a very solid design, and is pretty damn sexy) is only claiming 6Hp or something like that. You're talking about $250/Hp.

[AlBel1214]

Originally Posted by ridin135

To me there is no intake worth 1500 I dont care if it gave me 20whp.

I wanna find the person who makes the kool aid that would make people buy this thing...

If you wanna drop a hundred bucks on a DCI be my guest... but 15 hundo!!!... Good lord for that you can go buy 5 jb3's put one on your car and just hang the other four as decoration in your house...at least then your get 80+HP and some things to look at daily to remind you how fast your car is now..

[Monster335is]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

I hate to bust your chops about this, but I'm going to anyway.

How can you guys sell a $1500 airbox when you haven't even done any significant R&D (meaning dyno runs) to know what the effects of the design are on power and A/F ratio across the RPM range? To command that kind of price, I'd expect some pretty significant testing to have been done, and some data to prove it's worth it. In addition, the part looks pretty unrefined.

I'll take an unrefined looking part if it performs well, and is cost effective, but you're charging Dinan money for something a lot of us could fab up ourselves? I just don't see anything about this airbox that makes it worth anything remotely close to $1500. Quite honestly I have yet to see a single airbox or open element design that makes a significant gain, even on modified cars. Even the Dinan design (which looks like a very solid design, and is pretty damn sexy) is only claiming 6Hp or something like that. You're talking about $250/Hp.

Well said. For that price, someone can purchase a set of downpipes (including installation) and gain an easy 20whp. A $1500 intake system that only delivers a few ponies is not exactly bang for the buck.

[dieselmitchell]

I cant say i'm a fan, especially at this price... terry produced comprehensive results on the open air intake which concluded it to be the best: http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showth...ghlight=Intake

PLUS the fact that the air is ducted adds restriction and causes the turbos to work a hell of a lot harder. therefore the temp decrease you are saving by the close/ducted system is negated by the extra effort. basically unless you can show something amazing on the dyno and prove terry wrong, i am buying the bms open intake ALL DAY
but best of luck to u, i hope you prove it wrong


Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72
So if I am reading this correctly:
It does then suck in all the hot air from the engine. I think I was the first to say upon seeing one of the very first open air intakes on Walked U's car that it would suck in too much hot air.
I posted this long ago, some believed it, some dismissed it.
But having a 30 degree increase at the intake seems to support that.

It appears the best of both worlds would be an open intake that has a great heat shield and/or "ram air" intake tubing that directs more cool air into the filter but the heat shield protects the intake from sucking in all the hot air from the engine (similiar to what the stock airbox does).
This way you wouldn't get the +30 degree increase at the intake but still get the benefits of more air in and possibly getting BETTER than 30 degree decreases from the turbos doing less work.

Just imagine the decrease in temps at the turbos if the turbos not only didn't have to work as hard sucking the air in, but that air wasn't 30 degrees hotter like it is in open filter setups, but rather 30 or more degrees cooler from a heat shielded true CAI.
I've done testing with heat shields and the IAT reduction was pretty minimal, and by ducting the air you start to bring back the restriction. The bottom line is at this point I think the normal dual cone (or BMS single) is the best intake for all around performance at higher boost levels. At stock boost levels, the factory intake is adequate. But open intake will not cost you power.

[TiptronicSoldier]

I've spent some time reading this thread. Is there any difference in the intake temperatures between this system, stock, and an open CAI?

I see how this would keep some heat out and maybe keep the turbos slightly cooler if at all but is there a detectable difference over time of use? I am highly interested in how much your system is better than a competitor just out of curiosity.

I do not own an N54 car but I have an S85 and know that ASR has proven products for my motor. I unfortunately can only financially justify ASR's exhaust despite being offered a free used ASR nitrous kit from a friend who opted for a stroker motor because it was too expensive for me to get installed. As far as pricing goes I even have a hard time spending $2000+ on an S85 intake such as Dinan or ASR's(which is a smaller $/hp ratio on the S85) but I know many people that have so I'm sure there will be customers willing to pay this out there. There are money trees planted in some people's yards.

Will be looking forward to seeing some dyno testing soon.

[TiptronicSoldier]

Originally Posted by dieselmitchell

I cant say i'm a fan, especially at this price... terry produced comprehensive results on the open air intake which concluded it to be the best: http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showth...ghlight=Intake

PLUS the fact that the air is ducted adds restriction and causes the turbos to work a hell of a lot harder. therefore the temp decrease you are saving by the close/ducted system is negated by the extra effort. basically unless you can show something amazing on the dyno and prove terry wrong, i am buying the bms open intake ALL DAY
but best of luck to u, i hope you prove it wrong


Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72
So if I am reading this correctly:
It does then suck in all the hot air from the engine. I think I was the first to say upon seeing one of the very first open air intakes on Walked U's car that it would suck in too much hot air.
I posted this long ago, some believed it, some dismissed it.
But having a 30 degree increase at the intake seems to support that.

It appears the best of both worlds would be an open intake that has a great heat shield and/or "ram air" intake tubing that directs more cool air into the filter but the heat shield protects the intake from sucking in all the hot air from the engine (similiar to what the stock airbox does).
This way you wouldn't get the +30 degree increase at the intake but still get the benefits of more air in and possibly getting BETTER than 30 degree decreases from the turbos doing less work.

Just imagine the decrease in temps at the turbos if the turbos not only didn't have to work as hard sucking the air in, but that air wasn't 30 degrees hotter like it is in open filter setups, but rather 30 or more degrees cooler from a heat shielded true CAI.
I've done testing with heat shields and the IAT reduction was pretty minimal, and by ducting the air you start to bring back the restriction. The bottom line is at this point I think the normal dual cone (or BMS single) is the best intake for all around performance at higher boost levels. At stock boost levels, the factory intake is adequate. But open intake will not cost you power.

Is there not a way to import air additionally to the slim ducts at the front of the engine bay? I am not familiar with the engine bays too well because I have spent a total of 30 minutes looking in one while helping install a pin out. The rest I have seen is from PDFs about the N54 motor design and threads. A hood with vents, like the vorsteiner, would be really cool for this car with a heat shield made for it.

[mineo77]

what f'n idiot is gonna spend this much for an intake. Talk about pissing away your money...but if you have lots of $$ then i guess it isnt such a big deal. my 2 cents

[dieselmitchell]

tiptronic... click the link i posted above ^^^ it will answer any questions you may have

[evifytrihteno]

This thread is a JOKE.

I was the first to post about it and I see it still continues 3 months later.

No dynos in 3 months for a product that is both extravagant in price and in power claims? Final nail in the coffin.

[BahamaBart]

I can't see how either of the two aftermarket CAIs (Dinan and this one) would significantly out perform the stock box with a free flow filter. By significantly, I mean an improvement worthy of expenditure $$.

[Dmacc]

The way that everyone has adressed this thread is ridiculous. BRracing spent time and money to put together an intake system that is less prone to heat soak than a lot of other systems out there. Not to mention they threw in a BOV and a charge pipe.

We all know that a dyno chart with before and after gains would prove to be very useful, and once BRR has the time to produce that, I'm sure we will see much greater gains than most other intakes because of the design the utilizes the colder air temp.

Pricing does seem high right now, but all beginning products start out that way, I'm sure over time the price will drop, and this mod will prove to be useful to seeing much larger hp gains.

But as for now, flaming this OP is no use to anyone at all, obviously this design hasn't been finalized, give them a break, it's not like what they've said is complete non-sense and not worth any money at all. They didn't have to post on here but they did to give the consumers a heads up of whats to come. Give them some time and take it easy


my 2 cents.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Dmacc

But as for now, flaming this OP is no use to anyone at all, obviously this design hasn't been finalized, give them a break, it's not like what they've said is complete non-sense and not worth any money at all. They didn't have to post on here but they did to give the consumers a heads up of whats to come. Give them some time and take it easy


my 2 cents.

It's been four months since they introduced this thing. If they weren't any close to a finalized design than that, they probably shouldn't have shown it to anyone.

The bottom line is, if you're going to market a VERY expensive airbox on a forum, you should be prepared to answer some basic questions about it, or take the heat when you can't.

As I said earlier, that kind of pricing would suggest that there's some significant R&D costs that need to be covered, and it just doesn't seem like it's been done.

[Freakazoid]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

It's been four months since they introduced this thing. If they weren't any close to a finalized design than that, they probably shouldn't have shown it to anyone.

The bottom line is, if you're going to market a VERY expensive airbox on a forum, you should be prepared to answer some basic questions about it, or take the heat when you can't.

As I said earlier, that kind of pricing would suggest that there's some significant R&D costs that need to be covered, and it just doesn't seem like it's been done.

+1000. Read through this whole thread for the first time, and I'm amazed that something with this price tag doesn't have dyno sheets attached to it.

'Don't have time'? For a $1500 part? Really? Find a volunteer with a stock 135 and use their car if you don't want to spend time stripping stuff from your car....

You're not talking about a hundred or even couple hundred dollar piece here....

[///M1]

Been following this thread but never posted. Here is my $0.02

Price - not gonna beat a dead horse, but it is stratospheric. Is that alone enough to kill sales? Not necessarily. But lack of proof of gains is. It is hard to imagine in the 4 months since release the vendor has still not found an hour of their evening to do a few pulls. Even if time was so constrained, why don't they do something many other vendors have: offer discounted (say 1/2 off) for one unit to one user who will install on his car and do pre-and -post dynos? [raises hand ;-o] Problem of credibility solved, you actually have a fully independent 3rd party spit out the result and will never be tarnished with people thinking number is coming from vendor, hence it is upwardly biased.

With that said, I think this is the right design. And Dinan, who I trust in terms of engineering prowess (but not in price policy), has also shown it. But the price here makes the IMO much better looking CF Dinan intake seem as flea-market cheap! And without the numbers to back it up, I can't see how it will move off the shelf in any meaningful size.

[Stig'sM3]

seems like something Master-P would put in his car

[stevend218]

Originally Posted by egt135i

seems like something Master-P would put in his car

[brracing]

Beat the horse....it's still working strong.
The theory on the intake was that there were two parts...the intake, in it's complete form, was really two elements, the charge pipe and TIAL BOV (which is selling by others from $500 to upwards of $800) AND the closed intake, scoops, filters...so, subtract that from the total price, and you have $700 for the intake alone, which is much less than the Dinan CAI and for a unit that adds to the positive pressure increase rather than just adding to the flow available for the negative pressure in the current OEM box.
Agreed...no dyno's, not due to anything other than time and projects...as you can see from our other posts here and in the many other forums, we have several other projects and enhancements that continue to be added to this car (BRracing 135i...not your std dd), as well as our Porsche 997.2 2010 GT3 project car, our BMW E60 M5 project car, our E46 M3 project car, plus some new products)....so understand, and understand if others have a concern on the price.
There are also larger scoops on the front radiator intake tract, again, not a big deal, but part of the complete project.
The car will be at Laguna Seca again on Monday, March 15, 2010, for another full track day as part of our customer track day program, and happy to provide example of what the complete package this car has and delivers.
Bruce
BRracing

[AlBel1214]

Not enough time for one dyno in 4 months? Really...

[rsjean]

Originally Posted by brracing

Beat the horse....it's still working strong.

Agreed...no dyno's, not due to anything other than time and projects...as you can see from our other posts here and in the many other forums

Bruce
BRracing

I would venture to say that the amount of time devoted to writing posts telling about how there is no time to dyno could be about the time needed to dyno...