RR Downpipe installation issues

[KeithLM]

I had the RR catted downpipes installed this past week and have run into a couple issues and I'm hoping others on the forum that may know about the internals of this car can give me some advice. The first shop that I took it to, COBB Tuning in Plano could not get them installed correctly. When they had them in place the O2 sensors mounted near the turbos were in each others way. They gave up on the installation. I took it to Stett Performance which is a BMW tuning shop. He managed to get them installed and said there was a few thousands of an inch clearance between the sensors and he thought it would be ok.

I took it back to COBB Saturday so they could see how it was done. They put it up on the lift with me there and took off the bottom cover and examined the install. They tried to put a feeler between the sensors and found they were touching. They also observed a small amount of oil dripping in that area. There were just a couple drops visible and none on the plastic cover.

So where could this oil be coming from? Is there something under stress that is opening a gap between two parts and letting oil out? Is there something in that are that Stett perhaps loosened that let a little oil out in the process of fitting the pipes? And are the O2 sensors at risk of damage?

The ends of the downpipes are lined up nicely to each other and they mated with the stock exhaust just fine. Putting the Riss exhaust on proved problematic though, as it was not at all correct. It pushed up into the underbody in a lot of places and the tips were way out of alignment. There was no give whatsoever with the exhaust. Could bolting that up have shifted the downpipes and thus cracked something where they mount?

[KeithLM]

Originally Posted by BlackNWhite

Shoulda went with Custom Performance Engineering Down Pipes

Wow, what a completely helpful and productive comment.

Currently I'm seriously considering taking the car back on Tuesday and getting the stock pipes put back. First I need to talk with Riss and Stett. Even then I don't know how I'll feel about the car. I'm already looking into options to get out of the performance driving course I signed up for next Saturday because I'm not sure if my engine can handle it. Unfortunately at this point if I cancel I only get partial credit towards another event.

I also don't know if I'll be able to do any more performance mods on the car. If the mountings for the turbo or downpipes have been overstressed, then I can't risk putting more strain on the engine for fear of catastrophic failure. And of course I don't see BMW covering anything like that under warranty. Maybe if the engine survives for a few years it'll be ok, but it will be a long time before I feel secure again.

[KeithLM]

Oh, I should also point out I put a hundred miles on the car after the downpipes were installed, and the service engine soon light persisted. I then had the O2 sim installed, and it's still on. Perhaps it needs more miles, but this is worrisome. The engine runs rough on start up now.

[wu2x]

definitely contact Riss asap. Isn't Daniel oncall?

[rcracer_tx]

Originally Posted by KeithLM

When they had them in place the O2 sensors mounted near the turbos were in each others way. They gave up on the installation. I took it to Stett Performance which is a BMW tuning shop. He managed to get them installed and said there was a few thousands of an inch clearance between the sensors and he thought it would be ok.

My RR catless downpipes have very little clearance between the two as well, and have not had any issues with it after a thousand miles of driving... I think you should be fine. How is Stett performance? Do they have a BMW GT1 scanner?

Originally Posted by KeithLM

I took it back to COBB Saturday so they could see how it was done. They put it up on the lift with me there and took off the bottom cover and examined the install. They tried to put a feeler between the sensors and found they were touching. They also observed a small amount of oil dripping in that area. There were just a couple drops visible and none on the plastic cover.

So where could this oil be coming from? Is there something under stress that is opening a gap between two parts and letting oil out? Is there something in that are that Stett perhaps loosened that let a little oil out in the process of fitting the pipes? And are the O2 sensors at risk of damage?

As long as the o2 sensors are not allowed to move even closer to each other, they wont become damaged. The way the downpipes are set up on our cars does not allow the the two downpipes to move separately. The oil could have been from when they installed them previously, but I would go back and monitor them in a month or so. Is the oil coming from the 02 bung?

Originally Posted by KeithLM

The ends of the downpipes are lined up nicely to each other and they mated with the stock exhaust just fine. Putting the Riss exhaust on proved problematic though, as it was not at all correct. It pushed up into the underbody in a lot of places and the tips were way out of alignment. There was no give whatsoever with the exhaust. Could bolting that up have shifted the downpipes and thus cracked something where they mount?

Did you loosen the downpipes when you installed the exhaust? It might help as when the downpipes are loose, their is alto of play that they have to be able to get the exhaust lined up(at least on the cat less, not sure on catted). I would contact RR if you have problems.

[tjockey]

Originally Posted by KeithLM

Oh, I should also point out I put a hundred miles on the car after the downpipes were installed, and the service engine soon light persisted. I then had the O2 sim installed, and it's still on. Perhaps it needs more miles, but this is worrisome. The engine runs rough on start up now.

I've had the same problem. Put the CP-e exhaust on first and ran it for a a while with no problem. Then I put the RR catless downpipes on with O2 sims and when I drove the car home it showed a CEL. I took the car back to Eurotech of Knoxville, who did the install, and they called RR for possible info. The codes thrown indicated that it was a post downpipe problem and we tried a new O2 sim with no result. The car has been at Eurotech now for 3 weeks and still haven't been able to resolve the problem. Anybody had a similar experience or a possible suggestion. As of now, RR has not been able to provide any useful input.

[SV Concepts III]

Originally Posted by saikelol

definitely contact Riss asap. Isn't Daniel oncall?

+1 I just installed a set of the catless DPs on my 135 and didn't have issues with the O2 sensors clearing. It may just be an issue of positioning the pipes.

For the exhaust, I noticed that the main pipe was touching the metal heatshield right under the passenger seat which caused rattling. All you have to do is pinch the rubber mounts towards the rear of the car with zip ties to pull the exhaust down a bit.

[SV Concepts III]

Originally Posted by tjockey

I've had the same problem. Put the CP-e exhaust on first and ran it for a a while with no problem. Then I put the RR catless downpipes on with O2 sims and when I drove the car home it showed a CEL. I took the car back to Eurotech of Knoxville, who did the install, and they called RR for possible info. The codes thrown indicated that it was a post downpipe problem and we tried a new O2 sim with no result. The car has been at Eurotech now for 3 weeks and still haven't been able to resolve the problem. Anybody had a similar experience or a possible suggestion.

Did you install the red and white resistors with the O2 sims? I recommend installing these as it can't hurt to have them in there and without them, you may throw a code. One of the white resistors I received was defective so I picked up a new one at Radio Shack. Running codeless now

[tjockey]

Originally Posted by KeithLM

Oh, I should also point out I put a hundred miles on the car after the downpipes were installed, and the service engine soon light persisted. I then had the O2 sim installed, and it's still on. Perhaps it needs more miles, but this is worrisome. The engine runs rough on start up now.

I've had the same problem with the CEL light coming on after installing the RR catless downpipes. Put the CP-e exhaust on first and had no problem. When the RR downpipes were installed, the car showed a CEL while driving home. Took it back to Eurotech of Knoxville and put a new O2 sim on at RR"s suggestion but didn't resolve the problem. The car has been at the shop for 3 weeks now and still no solution from RR. Anybody had a similar problem and any suggestions for fix...

[KeithLM]

Originally Posted by rcracer_tx

My RR catless downpipes have very little clearance between the two as well, and have not had any issues with it after a thousand miles of driving... I think you should be fine. How is Stett performance? Do they have a BMW GT1 scanner?


As long as the o2 sensors are not allowed to move even closer to each other, they wont become damaged. The way the downpipes are set up on our cars does not allow the the two downpipes to move separately. The oil could have been from when they installed them previously, but I would go back and monitor them in a month or so. Is the oil coming from the 02 bung?



Did you loosen the downpipes when you installed the exhaust? It might help as when the downpipes are loose, their is alto of play that they have to be able to get the exhaust lined up(at least on the cat less, not sure on catted). I would contact RR if you have problems.

These are catted, and there is even less clearance. I can't say exactly where the oil came from, it was on a couple parts. To determine the source may require removing the downpipes. That's about $350. Stett did all the work on the downpipes and exhaust. He specifically does BMW work, he made a cold-air intake before Riss for the N54, he does custom exhaust, downpipes, engine swaps, etc.

Originally Posted by Nick@Jlevi SW

+1 I just installed a set of the catless DPs on my 135 and didn't have issues with the O2 sensors clearing. It may just be an issue of positioning the pipes.

For the exhaust, I noticed that the main pipe was touching the metal heatshield right under the passenger seat which caused rattling. All you have to do is pinch the rubber mounts towards the rear of the car with zip ties to pull the exhaust down a bit.

Aside from where the exhaust went under the rear subframe it was almost always in contact with the under body, it also made contact with a suspension bracket . There were few spots where there was a gap. It was also under tension. There was no give, and the brackets didn't come into play. The angle at which the pipes in the exhaust were made necessitated the position of the exhaust once it was bolted to the downpipes. I imagine if the downpipes were loosened at their mounts before connecting to the exhaust then they could never have been tightened back up.

I've spoken to Daniel, the people at Cobb and Stett have spoken to Daniel. Now I haven't spoken to him since I found the oil. But getting in touch with Riss this past week has been problematic, and most of what I have been told is "we've done this hundreds of times and they always fit without a problem". I've also been told that 95% of the time if you go catted you don't need the O2 sim, but most of the Riss catted downpipes Stett has installed have thrown codes.

[tjockey]

Originally Posted by Nick@Jlevi SW

Did you install the red and white resistors with the O2 sims? I recommend installing these as it can't hurt to have them in there and without them, you may throw a code. One of the white resistors I received was defective so I picked up a new one at Radio Shack. Running codeless now

Rick installed the resistors that came with the O2 sims. I'll get him to check and see if they are defective. We were wondering if the O2 sensors were damaged but no code to that effect.

[KeithLM]

I don't recall seeing resistors with my O2 sim, but then Riss also said they were including a special O2 sim just for me when they sent my downpipes just in case I had problems.

[KeithLM]

Wow, the more I drive it the worse it seems to get. I just put another 30 miles on it, that's around 50 since having the O2 sim installed and 150 since the downpipes were put on. It's running rough and at times seems to be hesitating. Once the rpms are up it feels smoother, but accelerating from a stop doesn't feel right at all. And that damn service engine soon light won't go away.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by KeithLM

Wow, the more I drive it the worse it seems to get. I just put another 30 miles on it, that's around 50 since having the O2 sim installed and 150 since the downpipes were put on. It's running rough and at times seems to be hesitating. Once the rpms are up it feels smoother, but accelerating from a stop doesn't feel right at all. And that damn service engine soon light won't go away.

The engine running rough shouldn't have anything to do with the DP installation. I've been running my car with no O2 sims for months now, and it runs fine. The SES light you get is due to it failing an OBDII emissions test, it shouldn't have any effect on how the car runs.

Have you scanned it to see if there are any other codes being thrown?

[KeithLM]

I don't have a scanner so I can't check. But it seems to me if the sims are lying to the computer then it might not be able to find the right air/fuel mixture. All I know is it's not running like it used to.

[BlackjackMulligan]

Originally Posted by KeithLM

I don't have a scanner so I can't check. But it seems to me if the sims are lying to the computer then it might not be able to find the right air/fuel mixture. All I know is it's not running like it used to.

I feel your pain, that sucks.

My opinion? Put it back the way it was before. Ask nicely for a refund from RR and maybe some credit toward the install if their product didn't fit as it should've. If you're anything like me, this will drive you nuts (the CEL, running rough, oil drips, etc) until it's back to normal again and it looks like you have to simply back track to get the car to run normal again.

Sorry I don't have a better answer but this is my suggestion.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by KeithLM

I don't have a scanner so I can't check. But it seems to me if the sims are lying to the computer then it might not be able to find the right air/fuel mixture. All I know is it's not running like it used to.

The O2s jumped out aren't used for fuel trims. Something else is going on.

[KeithLM]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

The O2s jumped out aren't used for fuel trims. Something else is going on.

OK, so how long should it take for the ECU to adjust to the changes?

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by KeithLM

OK, so how long should it take for the ECU to adjust to the changes?

I would think 100 miles would be plenty. I didn't have any issue at all with mine after the DP installation. I'm running catless, which you would think would be even worse, so I'm really having a hard time figuring out what's going on with yours.

Is there any chance you tapped into the wrong wires with the O2 sims? I missed the count putting my JB3 pinout in and it did some weird stuff.

I think I've asked you before, but are you running a tune, or other engine mods?

[KeithLM]

I've got the full stage 3 RR intake. That's it, no tune. I had Stett install the O2 sim as I just figured with all the troubles I've had it's time to give up doing stuff myself. I'll be having him check the codes and see if he can figure out what's up.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by KeithLM

I've got the full stage 3 RR intake. That's it, no tune. I had Stett install the O2 sim as I just figured with all the troubles I've had it's time to give up doing stuff myself. I'll be having him check the codes and see if he can figure out what's up.

At this point I'd say having someone plug into it is about all you can do. It may be something unrelated that just happened at the same time as the installation. Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.

[dperez]

I installed RR DP catted, and the CEL came on. I check the code (P3090) HPFP.