Redline ATF 4/6 6MT

Kabnine · 03-28-2014, 12:34 AM

I have noticed that around the other side of the world, they use Redline ATF 4 or 6 in the 6 speed manual. Its even the recommended product on the US Redline site. However, in Australia the recommended product is a manual gear oil.

Has anyone tried this in their 6 speed? Is the difference perhaps the fact that we live in a significantly warmer climate?

thewafflecaust · 03-28-2014, 01:22 AM

I have D4 ATF that is going in to my 6MT next week when I get my SSK installed..

froop · 03-28-2014, 01:25 AM

I use redline MT-60 in mine. Works pretty well. Don't really have much to compare with. I guess it feels a little smoother than the OEM fluid I had in there before. Haven't tried the ATF though.

kmli5 · 03-28-2014, 01:36 AM

I use redline MTL in mine. I have seen people that rebuild BMW gearbox only uses MTL. With the exception of people who won't warm up their box before 'spirited' shifting, then use ATF D4. In other word, MTL give the best protection given that you don't hard shift when cold.

froop · 03-28-2014, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmli5

I use redline MTL in mine. I have seen people that rebuild BMW gearbox only uses MTL. With the exception of people who won't warm up their box before 'spirited' shifting, then use ATF D4. In other word, MTL give the best protection given that you don't hard shift when cold.

Sounds similar to MT90 except that MT90 is a 90 weight oil at higher temps and MTL is closer to an 80 weight. Both should be ok as long as you warm them up as they're both rated at 75 weight when cold.

froop · 03-28-2014, 01:49 AM

Here, have a read of this.

http://www.redlineoil.com/content/fi...ech%20Info.pdf

They say that ATF isn't suitable for manual transmissions because "are not well suited for transmission use because of two factors - shear stability and improper coefficient of friction". Whatever that means.

The article does state later on however that D4 ATF can be substituted for MTL as they're both GL-4 lubricants. Whatever that means.

thewafflecaust · 03-28-2014, 02:12 AM

Poking around abit it appears the D6 is closer in spec to the BMW LT-3 MTF, but both D4 and D6 meet GL-4, so what this means in the real world I have no idea.

So in conclusion.. I'm still confused! Hopefully I don't grenade my gearbox

froop · 03-28-2014, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewafflecaust

Poking around abit it appears the D6 is closer in spec to the BMW LT-3 MTF, but both D4 and D6 meet GL-4, so what this means in the real world I have no idea.

So in conclusion.. I'm still confused! Hopefully I don't grenade my gearbox

I'm sure D4 and D6 will both be ok but from what I've read in a manual gearbox you don't want it to be that slippery cos you need some friction for the synchros to work properly. That's what the article says. So it says that the MTL and the MT90 help reduce notchiness compared to ATF and BMW OEM fluid. Most likely OEM fluid is closer to ATF because the majority of owners won't bother driving conservatively to warm up their gear oil before driving hard.

But in the end, no ATF should be completely fine and you won't lunch your gearbox. You can also shift harder without having to warm up the fluid as much compared to MTL. It just may not be as smooth as if you were to use MTL once warmed up.

thewafflecaust · 03-28-2014, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by froop

I'm sure D4 and D6 will both be ok but from what I've read in a manual gearbox you don't want it to be that slippery cos you need some friction for the synchros to work properly. That's what the article says. So it says that the MTL and the MT90 help reduce notchiness compared to ATF and BMW OEM fluid. Most likely OEM fluid is closer to ATF because the majority of owners won't bother driving conservatively to warm up their gear oil before driving hard.

But in the end, no ATF should be completely fine and you won't lunch your gearbox. You can also shift harder without having to warm up the fluid as much compared to MTL. It just may not be as smooth as if you were to use MTL once warmed up.

Hmm, well I guess if I dont like the shift feel I can always change it to MTL later. See how I go next week!

Dackelone · 03-28-2014, 04:27 AM

This is interesting. I have been using D4 in my manual trans for about 35K miles now. No problems what so ever. I also have used it in a former BMW (e36) for 70K miles, with no problems. I think its the differences climates.

In the US most people(and Redline) say to use ATF D4(or D6), some bmw guru's say to use MTL or MT90, with the caveat that you can not shift fast on a cold trans. I think Mike Miller is one of those guys. He also says that IF he can not trust his customer to wait until the trans warms up.. he uses D4.

Personally I think you'd be fine using any of these fluids.

Kabnine · 03-28-2014, 05:27 AM

I guess the thing is that I do a lot of smaller trips. As a result the oil doesn't get a chance to get warm. I definitely notice a difference in the shifting when the gearbox is warm. I like notch (warm) but not clunky (cold) if that makes sense? It may just be that it needs something better than what is likely the oil that it came out of the factory with 65000km ago. I also figure that surely some states have similarly warm temperatures to QLD and their US website recommends it over the gear oil.

froop · 03-28-2014, 06:30 AM

I think any of the compatible fluids/oils will be better than whatever's been festering in your gearbox for god knows how long.

yawn · 03-28-2014, 06:57 AM

Been using D4 for the past 15k kms no problems whatsoever. Further to that, notchiness has also been reduced.

drjekl · 03-28-2014, 07:01 AM

Been using D4 for 6 months or so, initially noticed bugger all difference then it started to free up over a few weeks.

It was definately worthwhile for the sake of $50-60 worth of fluid.

MightyMouseTech · 03-28-2014, 07:05 AM

I chose D4 as per Redline's recommendation for my tranny. I live in Canada however, so I need to be able to shift at -30 C. Something the D4 does MUCH better than the stock MTF-LT-5. Nice that the D4 is also the recommended fluid for the power steering.

drjekl · 03-28-2014, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

I chose D4 as per Redline's recommendation for my tranny. I live in Canada however, so I need to be able to shift at -30 C. Something the D4 does MUCH better than the stock MTF-LT-5. Nice that the D4 is also the recommended fluid for the power steering.

Damn that's crazy cold! You might be better of with the D6 fluid?

Dackelone · 03-28-2014, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

I chose D4 as per Redline's recommendation for my tranny. I live in Canada however, so I need to be able to shift at -30 C. Something the D4 does MUCH better than the stock MTF-LT-5. Nice that the D4 is also the recommended fluid for the power steering.

You have to look at the PS cap on BMW's to make sure that you can use ATF. Some cars have a cap that says "use CHF 11S" fluid. So it's on a car by car basis.

MightyMouseTech · 03-29-2014, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drjekl

Damn that's crazy cold! You might be better of with the D6 fluid?

Seems to work well. It is the recommended fluid for my 2013 135i MT according to their website. The D6 is recommended for the MT in the cars with the N54.

Any synthetic is going to be better than the dead dino juice that comes pre-loaded in our boxes.

I also plan on doing a fair amount of lapping with the car this summer, so I wanted something that can do dual duty.

MightyMouseTech · 03-29-2014, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dackelone

You have to look at the PS cap on BMW's to make sure that you can use ATF. Some cars have a cap that says "use CHF 11S" fluid. So it's on a car by car basis.

I think it says ATF on my cap, but will double check. On the Redline site, D4 is the recommended fluid for my car.

owen2001 · 03-29-2014, 10:14 AM

I went with Redline MTL at my 1,200 break-in service. It's noticeably smoother than OEM and I haven't had any issues whatsoever.

drjekl · 03-29-2014, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Seems to work well. It is the recommended fluid for my 2013 135i MT according to their website. The D6 is recommended for the MT in the cars with the N54.

Any synthetic is going to be better than the dead dino juice that comes pre-loaded in our boxes.

I also plan on doing a fair amount of lapping with the car this summer, so I wanted something that can do dual duty.

Ahh ok cool.

Wouldnt the fluid bmw use have to be a full synthetic also to be a 'lifetime fluid'?

All I know is the oem stuff reeks when you drop it!

flinchy · 03-30-2014, 07:40 AM

I've used the D4-ATF and have no problems with it

another one i've seen come up on forums for N54's is Red Line MT-90, apparently it's even better.

03-28-2014, 12:34 AM	#1
Kabnine Private First Class 11 Rep 150 Posts Drives: 2008 135i 6MT Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Queensland, Australia iTrader: (0)	Redline ATF 4/6 6MT I have noticed that around the other side of the world, they use Redline ATF 4 or 6 in the 6 speed manual. Its even the recommended product on the US Redline site. However, in Australia the recommended product is a manual gear oil. Has anyone tried this in their 6 speed? Is the difference perhaps the fact that we live in a significantly warmer climate?
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03-28-2014, 01:22 AM	#2
thewafflecaust Private First Class 4 Rep 133 Posts Drives: 2009 Rattling Wastegate Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Melbourne iTrader: (0)	I have D4 ATF that is going in to my 6MT next week when I get my SSK installed..
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03-28-2014, 01:25 AM	#3
froop Colonel 171 Rep 2,682 Posts Drives: 08 AW 6MT E82 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Sydney, Australia iTrader: (3)	I use redline MT-60 in mine. Works pretty well. Don't really have much to compare with. I guess it feels a little smoother than the OEM fluid I had in there before. Haven't tried the ATF though. __________________ froop's AW 135i Build Thread
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03-28-2014, 01:36 AM	#4
kmli5 Private First Class 10 Rep 183 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Melbourne iTrader: (1)	I use redline MTL in mine. I have seen people that rebuild BMW gearbox only uses MTL. With the exception of people who won't warm up their box before 'spirited' shifting, then use ATF D4. In other word, MTL give the best protection given that you don't hard shift when cold. __________________ 2008 BMW M3 \| 6MT \| OEM Exhaust Mod \| Black Grilles \|
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03-28-2014, 01:49 AM	#6
froop Colonel 171 Rep 2,682 Posts Drives: 08 AW 6MT E82 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Sydney, Australia iTrader: (3)	Here, have a read of this. http://www.redlineoil.com/content/fi...ech%20Info.pdf They say that ATF isn't suitable for manual transmissions because "are not well suited for transmission use because of two factors - shear stability and improper coefficient of friction". Whatever that means. The article does state later on however that D4 ATF can be substituted for MTL as they're both GL-4 lubricants. Whatever that means. __________________ froop's AW 135i Build Thread
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03-28-2014, 02:12 AM	#7
thewafflecaust Private First Class 4 Rep 133 Posts Drives: 2009 Rattling Wastegate Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Melbourne iTrader: (0)	Poking around abit it appears the D6 is closer in spec to the BMW LT-3 MTF, but both D4 and D6 meet GL-4, so what this means in the real world I have no idea. So in conclusion.. I'm still confused! Hopefully I don't grenade my gearbox
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03-28-2014, 04:27 AM	#10
Dackelone European Editor 10539 Rep 22,992 Posts Drives: N54 e82 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Bayern, Germany iTrader: (1)	This is interesting. I have been using D4 in my manual trans for about 35K miles now. No problems what so ever. I also have used it in a former BMW (e36) for 70K miles, with no problems. I think its the differences climates. In the US most people(and Redline) say to use ATF D4(or D6), some bmw guru's say to use MTL or MT90, with the caveat that you can not shift fast on a cold trans. I think Mike Miller is one of those guys. He also says that IF he can not trust his customer to wait until the trans warms up.. he uses D4. Personally I think you'd be fine using any of these fluids. __________________ Dackel's European Delivery Museum Guide
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03-28-2014, 05:27 AM	#11
Kabnine Private First Class 11 Rep 150 Posts Drives: 2008 135i 6MT Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Queensland, Australia iTrader: (0)	I guess the thing is that I do a lot of smaller trips. As a result the oil doesn't get a chance to get warm. I definitely notice a difference in the shifting when the gearbox is warm. I like notch (warm) but not clunky (cold) if that makes sense? It may just be that it needs something better than what is likely the oil that it came out of the factory with 65000km ago. I also figure that surely some states have similarly warm temperatures to QLD and their US website recommends it over the gear oil.
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03-28-2014, 06:30 AM	#12
froop Colonel 171 Rep 2,682 Posts Drives: 08 AW 6MT E82 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Sydney, Australia iTrader: (3)	I think any of the compatible fluids/oils will be better than whatever's been festering in your gearbox for god knows how long. __________________ froop's AW 135i Build Thread
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03-28-2014, 06:57 AM	#13
yawn Lieutenant 57 Rep 552 Posts Drives: M2 Competition Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Home iTrader: (0)	Been using D4 for the past 15k kms no problems whatsoever. Further to that, notchiness has also been reduced.
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03-28-2014, 07:01 AM	#14
drjekl Captain 35 Rep 809 Posts Drives: E92 335i Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Oz iTrader: (0)	Been using D4 for 6 months or so, initially noticed bugger all difference then it started to free up over a few weeks. It was definately worthwhile for the sake of $50-60 worth of fluid.
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03-28-2014, 07:05 AM	#15
MightyMouseTech Major General 4338 Rep 6,196 Posts Drives: 13 135i 6MT LeMans Blue MSport Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Ottawa, Canada iTrader: (0)	I chose D4 as per Redline's recommendation for my tranny. I live in Canada however, so I need to be able to shift at -30 C. Something the D4 does MUCH better than the stock MTF-LT-5. Nice that the D4 is also the recommended fluid for the power steering.
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03-29-2014, 10:14 AM	#20
owen2001 Lieutenant 28 Rep 454 Posts Drives: 2013 135is Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Denver, CO iTrader: (11)	I went with Redline MTL at my 1,200 break-in service. It's noticeably smoother than OEM and I haven't had any issues whatsoever. __________________ 2013 Jet Black 135is \| 6MT \| Coupe \| #381/586
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03-30-2014, 07:40 AM	#22
flinchy Brigadier General 126 Rep 3,099 Posts Drives: E82 135i Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: QLD, Australia iTrader: (0)	I've used the D4-ATF and have no problems with it another one i've seen come up on forums for N54's is Red Line MT-90, apparently it's even better.
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