I'm not impressed with this "is" engine

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by Project1

Are we talking stock for stock here? I'm so confused, and yes the M3 is a high end power band. I mean come on, it's like an F430, they have no torque but wicked HP/weight. This aint yewr big block chevy v8 son.

This is sophistication/technology.

The main difference between the F430 engine and the M3 engine is that the Ferrari engine uses a flat plane crank. Only the M3 GT race car uses a flat plane crank.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Evan135

The two engines are really pretty close in usable power. The 135 has torque lower and the M3 has high rpm horsepower. What everyone is forgeting in these acceleration comparisons is gearing.

6MT 135i rear axle ratio= 3.08
6MT M3 rear axle ratio = 3.85

I an acceleration contest with two cars of similar power and weight the car with the 3.85 rear axle and a limited slip should win every time. The engines and weight are two close to make a real difference with such a disparity in gearing.

A big part of the M cars is gearing and limited slip when it comes to acceleration. This is why I have been wondering what the 1M will get for gears?

I did mention gearing.
You're right, it's very important. But, even with the "shorter" final drive, the current M3 has the revs to deal with it and take advantage of the final drive.

Give our 135i that same final drive and our trip to 60 or even 100mph would be much faster. However, given the relative low high-rpm torque/HP our engines would run out of breath even sooner.
The V8 M3 would be hitting it's stride as we wheeze out.

It's one thing to have and hit a high top speed, but it's another to get there quickly. You have to have the revs along with building power at those high revs to get you there.

[Evan135]

Originally Posted by RPM90

I did mention gearing.
You're right, it's very important. But, even with the "shorter" final drive, the current M3 has the revs to deal with it and take advantage of the final drive.

Give our 135i that same final drive and our trip to 60 or even 100mph would be much faster. However, given the relative low high-rpm torque/HP our engines would run out of breath even sooner.
The V8 M3 would be hitting it's stride as we wheeze out.

It's one thing to have and hit a high top speed, but it's another to get there quickly. You have to have the revs along with building power at those high revs to get you there.

You are right the high rpm capacity of the M3 engine makes it faster at higher speeds, but unfortunately misunderstood the point I was trying to make. I am not the best writer and probably did not make it clear.

Most M cars historically have an advantage in gearing, as they were NA and needed it to have good acceleration to 60 and higher. The point I was trying to make is that one of the largest reasons the M3 is faster to 60, or maybe even 100 ,than the 135i is because it has better gearing and a LSD.

From what I have read when most people talk about the M3 and 135i they forget to mention the gearing difference. Give the M3 a 3.08 gear and the 135i would win in a drag race. Give the 135i more gear (maybe 3.46) and it would win the drag race. To me it seems many people debate the engines almost in a vacum.

I was trying to say that the 135i could be quicker to 60, and maybe higher, if it had the same type gearing and limited slip advantage the M3 has. 295 lb/ft at 3900 rpm is only going to move a 3700 lbs M3 so fast unless you help it with torque multiplication, which BMW does by using a 3.85 ratio.

That is why I am curious about the 1M gearing, it should be numerically higher than the 135i since the 1M engine hopefully will be better at high rpm. This better gearing should help the 1M 0-60 times too.

[BMW269]

135i E82 + M3 E92 = M3 F32

Imagine how fast it will be!

[Muffnbluff]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

You know... I have found thru my Autobahn "testing" that a stock 135i (mines a N54) is just as fast as an e92 M3! Atleast until the 135i's speed limiter kicks in at 155mph. The last one I "raced" it was too much for the M3 driver. He really was mad.

It got me thinking... if I had a BMW perf kit... I bet that 20 PS and extra oomph(TQ)... would mean a 135i would be about three car lengths in front of a M3 at speed. BMW doesn't quote a whole lotta of PS(HP) but they do show the acel times are much faster WITH thier perf kit. Esp when they quote in gear acceleration which is real world types of autobahn racing.

I passed an R8 at the track the other weekend, doesn't mean my stock 135i is faster, just means that I was driving better lines than the guy in the R8. The 135i is no match for the M3 on pretty much any track.

[Robert]

135i is a better everyday car than the M3. Under street condition, 135i will be par with the M3. Where the m3 shines over triple digit is irrelevant for occasional out accelerating from a light or highway passes. Over 100 on freeway is reckless and risk of being pull over by Johnny Law at that speed is not worth it.

M3 is better on high speed tracks, but it's all about bringing the right tool to the right fight. If your car is for commuting 99% of the time and see track time 1% of the time I am not sure M3 is right car, personally I don't think so. At that point it's good for the badge and internet bragging rights. Even on the track, the best tool will be an Elise or Caterham 7 over a luxo performance Coupe like a M3 due to 1) heft and 2) cost to maintain a track ready weapon. M3 is therefore best for someone who lives where there's unrestricted highway and easy access to a track. Otherwise like I said it's more for the prestige and occasionally ego boost than anything else.

If you can only own one car then M3 is it. But if you can garage two there are more specialized vehicle for each needs

[nordique14]

Originally Posted by BForbes

I'm still a believer this motor is based off of the N55.

The 335is engine is basically the N54 engine with the Performance Power Kit. The difference is that the 'is' has an "overboost" feature not in the PPK. I have a 135i with the PPK and the extra 20hp is not felt by me. I do really like the extra cooling provided by the package though.

[Trier Germany]

Originally Posted by Robert

135i is a better everyday car than the M3. Under street condition, 135i will be par with the M3. Where the m3 shines over triple digit is irrelevant for occasional out accelerating from a light or highway passes. Over 100 on freeway is reckless and risk of being pull over by Johnny Law at that speed is not worth it.

M3 is better on high speed tracks, but it's all about bringing the right tool to the right fight. If your car is for commuting 99% of the time and see track time 1% of the time I am not sure M3 is right car, personally I don't think so. At that point it's good for the badge and internet bragging rights. Even on the track, the best tool will be an Elise or Caterham 7 over a luxo performance Coupe like a M3 due to 1) heft and 2) cost to maintain a track ready weapon. M3 is therefore best for someone who lives where there's unrestricted highway and easy access to a track. Otherwise like I said it's more for the prestige and occasionally ego boost than anything else.

If you can only own one car then M3 is it. But if you can garage two there are more specialized vehicle for each needs

All agree your engine is better suited for the daily grind of U.S. driving since the N54/55 are torque monsters and the torque hits early in the rev band.

I bought the M3 because it's a good daily driver and can be tracked occasionally. I agree it's good for high speed tracks. But on slower tracks what cars are you comparing 135, 335? The M3 will still eat up 135 and 335 on slower tracks due to more usable RPM to modulate throttle, LSD and better suspension.

[Jblack4083]

Originally Posted by Daniel135i

Umm, think again, the turbo engines pull all the way to redline, your V8 is good for off the line grunt, and falls at speed. You have it twisted man. Thats all that the NA V8 is for, low end grunt.

Turbos are top end heaven.

This sounds backwards... Turbo gives you a lot of torque off the line due to the "boost" but once you hit the upper RPMs, the M3 is a "high-revving" V8 and still is pushing even into 8k RPM while your turbo car's boost is over.

You seem to have the concepts of turbo and high-revving mixed up.

[footie]

All this sounds like is someone trying to get a desired reaction from M3 owners and by the looks of it he succeeded.

[JimmyT]

I don't think the 335is motor is designed to impress the owner of a 135i or 335i. I think the car is meant to attract a new owner to the brand, someone that appreciates a friend's X35i with tune, and allows an owner to have a "tuned" car from the factory to start with. The engine, combined with DCT allows BMW to have countless miles of experience with the Turbo I6/DCT setup prior to offering more advanced versions in the 1M coupe and F2X M3. Having driven one, I can say that the power delivery is amazing compared to what I currently own, but if I already had X35i with tune and suspension mods... I don't think I would be impressed. Just my opinion....

[jkp1187]

Originally Posted by RPM90

I wonder though, with all the positive press the new V8 Mustang GT is getting, BMW might rethink putting turbo's on the new M.
Sure, they have to meet EPA, but they've got Mini to help with that and the larger selling 128/328i that can return decent MPG.

Or maybe just drop the nonsense-on-stilts that are the X5///M and X6///M, and keep the V8 in the M3....

[shawshank772]

Originally Posted by Daniel135i

Umm, think again, the turbo engines pull all the way to redline, your V8 is good for off the line grunt, and falls at speed. You have it twisted man. Thats all that the NA V8 is for, low end grunt.

Turbos are top end heaven.

Is this comment serious??!! Your turbo engines pull to redline...well thats great If I remember (havent driven the car in 6 months) a 135I has a redline of 6500. On top of that they die out at around 6k rpm. The M3 has a redline of 8500.
V8 good for off the line grunt?!! Actually the M3 has CRAP for torque. Torque puts the power to the ground which helps in "off the line" speed. So, with such low torque (295?) the M3 is actually NOT good off the line at all. "Falls at speed" LOL thats where the M3 is in its glory. Oh well, some people will never learn. I am sure others flamed him, but I just had to respond as soon as I read that post.

[BrokenVert]

^ how do you drive a 135 and not know that the redline is at 7000?

And turbos are great for the top end when they are properly sized. The problem with the N54 is that it's turbos are small which is good off the line with little lag but fail up top because they are too small

[Trier Germany]

Originally Posted by footie

All this sounds like is someone trying to get a desired reaction from M3 owners and by the looks of it he succeeded.

Footie,

This discussion has been very civilized! I do honestly respect all the 135 & 335 owners that have chimed in. They all honestly understand their engines and power delivery. Except for one individual

[Quick1 TO BE]

both cars are great cars, get over it and move on. M3s are $20K more then the 135i and its for a reason with the extra bells .. i have a 135i and i love it. and a buddy of mine has a 2010M3 DCT and i drove it. man it screams but i honestly dont think the scream and that extra pull is worth $20k.. still a very very very awesome car. i know when we are pregnant im gonna buy a 4dr M3 as a family car but the 1er is staying.


Ash

[footie]

Originally Posted by Trier Germany

Footie,

This discussion has been very civilized! I do honestly respect all the 135 & 335 owners that have chimed in. They all honestly understand their engines and power delivery. Except for one individual

My point exactly, this one individual has shit stirred and in my opinion got the desired action. No person in their right mind would believe or even think a standard 135i would sit with an M3 beyond 100mph.

[Elsabor67]

Originally Posted by footie

No person in their right mind would believe or even think a standard 135i would sit with an M3 beyond 100mph.

Ehhh, depends.....but honestly, I experienced it on a late summer afternoon as I was invited to go with the ///Mflight club when they went to see the Regensburg plant. After we refueled in Ansbach (about 18 cars) we got on the 'bahn and the leaad guy driving a 08 ///M3 sedan with DCT bolted (and I mean BOLTED )away from ALL OF US. I was car # 2 in the group and gunned it, went through all the gears and he steadily walked away from me as I reached the limiter.

Now....after about 10 minutes or so of 135-155 MPH after catching up to him, one of teh club guys caught up to us and he was rolling a '08 6spd coupe. The guy in the coupe was surprised on how we both bolted as he had to downshift to jump into the rpm range when we initially took off.

I will say one thing though. I have rode in a E92/E36(Euro)/E46 ///M3 and will definetly say that with the gearing they are monsters at high speeds.

i still love my 1 though

[Robert]

Originally Posted by footie

My point exactly, this one individual has shit stirred and in my opinion got the desired action. No person in their right mind would believe or even think a standard 135i would sit with an M3 beyond 100mph.

In "Inception" we can.

[Trier Germany]

Originally Posted by Elsabor67

Ehhh, depends.....but honestly, I experienced it on a late summer afternoon as I was invited to go with the ///Mflight club when they went to see the Regensburg plant. After we refueled in Ansbach (about 18 cars) we got on the 'bahn and the leaad guy driving a 08 ///M3 sedan with DCT bolted (and I mean BOLTED )away from ALL OF US. I was car # 2 in the group and gunned it, went through all the gears and he steadily walked away from me as I reached the limiter.

Now....after about 10 minutes or so of 135-155 MPH after catching up to him, one of teh club guys caught up to us and he was rolling a '08 6spd coupe. The guy in the coupe was surprised on how we both bolted as he had to downshift to jump into the rpm range when we initially took off.

I will say one thing though. I have rode in a E92/E36(Euro)/E46 ///M3 and will definetly say that with the gearing they are monsters at high speeds.

i still love my 1 though

It's The N/A power of the high revving ///M engines as N54/55 engines runs out of boost the S-65 engine is starting to make maximum horsepower. Hence you can't hang accelerating above 100Mph. A M3 will reach 140 MPH 8 seconds quicker than a stock 135

[Elsabor67]

Originally Posted by Trier Germany

It's The N/A power of the high revving ///M engines as N54/55 engines runs out of boost the S-65 engine is starting to make maximum horsepower. Hence you can't hang accelerating above 100Mph. A M3 will reach 140 MPH 8 seconds quicker than a stock 135

I know I read that earlier J/K.

When are you going back to the 'ring? Hopefully we can meet some day. I was there last weekend with a good friend and his dad.

[Trier Germany]

Originally Posted by BForbes

As many others have stated, this is completely false. An M3 will reach 140mph about 8 seconds faster than a stock 135i. It even reaches it faster than a 335i with a DINAN Stage 3 kit.

In racing 8 seconds is MASSIVE. You would barely be able to tell what kind of car that is way in front of you. The N54/5 shines in terms of midrange against a 6MT M3. The M3 DCT equipped car will give you a BIG HEADACHE if you're stock and a much smaller one if you're not.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/..._bmw_m3_page_3

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mw_135i_page_4


Automobile mag was saying the prototype they were in dosen't pull as strong as an M3.

Originally Posted by Elsabor67

I know I read that earlier J/K.

When are you going back to the 'ring? Hopefully we can meet some day. I was there last weekend with a good friend and his dad.

I will be there this friday Testing My KW clubsports and fine tuning the adjustments with a local race team.