Car broke down today. Looking at $$$$ repair. Need advice

[RoundelM3]

Originally Posted by ossi1

Likewise - no issues with my 135i ...yet loads with my Lexus.

I think we need to look at the nature of the beast as well. Most people buy these cars for a reason, as such they may get driven in a manner that may encourage wear and tear in certain areas over time...

My car is totally stock and im retired - yet on occasion I drive it like I stole it - why ? because thats what its designed for and I can

Over here in the UK the Honda Jazz is probably the most reliable car going - thats wholly down to the demographic of the population who drive them. If you were to drive a Jazz like a 135i then I daresay they would be chucking out the same sort of failures instead of just worn clutches..

Oh, absolutely true - I still drive the hell out of both of our cars when the occasion permits. But time seems to mellow us, and alas, I no longer live in Texas where there were roads with 85 mph speed limits and back roads that were lightly traveled and full of curves. North Carolina's coastal area, where I am now, has some great roads, but higher speeds are limited to Interstates, and the closest one is 20 miles from my house. Still - there are lots of those back roads to take advantage of, and I do so at every opportunity.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by roundel335

As I'm retired now, I don't drive as many miles as I would back when I was commuting to work prior to 2011 (worked from home for last 5 years before retiring). I think a lot has to do with how well the cars are taken care of and whether or not you follow the "old school" maintenance schedule as opposed to BMW's intervals and recommendations.

As the E82/E88 1-Series fades into automotive history, the cars from the series will bifurcate into two basic streams, those that are collectible and/or owned by collectors, and those that get run into the ground as DD and otherwise high use vehicles. I say this as someone who has been watching and dabbling in the E36/E46 and E82/E88 collector marketplace, as well as participating in related online forums.

Now that BMW has abandoned responsive, hydraulic, steering, in favor of numb, electric steering, and is in the process of jettisoning manual transmissions, the new vehicles from this brand will not appeal to the same people who are collecting BMWs from the more distant and recent past. Whether BMW will attract a new population of collectors, or whether some of the current collectors will change their standards to accommodate the new vehicles is an open question.

Those E82 and E88 vehicles that end up in the "collector channel" will get used to a much lesser extent and rack up the miles/kms at a much slower rate than cars driven as DD/primary vehicles. As such, it can be expected that to the extent that mechanical and other problems are related to mileage, there will be a lot less of these problems in lightly used vehicles, at least until the effects of age itself begins to wreck havoc with parts sitting barely used. Collectors don't tend to complain as much about problems with their cars, in part because they are more tolerant of these, but also because they happen less often since the cars aren't used much. Since complaints are the "coin of the realm" in online forums, you can expect that as these vehicles go more and more to collectors, complaint frequency will go down. This doesn't really indicate that the cars are reliable, just that they are being used less and that the owner/collectors expect problems as part of the collecting experience, so they are more likely to pay their independent garage to fix them than they are to vent on an online forum.

Which of the 1-Series cars are destined to end up in the collectors' channel? In my very biased opinion, these will be, (from most desired to least), 1Ms, 135is (especially 6MT), and lower mileage 6MT examples of 135i and 128i vehicles with sports seats and sport suspensions. Since the 128i 6MT with a sports package are relatively rare, and being as the 128i is the last NA BMW likely to ever be made, well-kept, low mileage, 128i examples in this configuration may be especially attractive to collectors, going forward. AT vehicles were produced in larger quantities, plus by their nature appeal less to "driving enthusiasts," hence will be less likely to become collectibles. As with any collectible car, unmolested/stock versions will be greatly preferred over those that have been extensively modified.

[RoundelM3]

Originally Posted by champignon

As the E82/E88 1-Series fades into automotive history, the cars from the series will bifurcate into two basic streams, those that are collectible and/or owned by collectors, and those that get run into the ground as DD and otherwise high use vehicles. I say this as someone who has been watching and dabbling in the E36/E46 and E82/E88 collector marketplace, as well as participating in related online forums.

Now that BMW has abandoned responsive, hydraulic, steering, in favor of numb, electric steering, and is in the process of jettisoning manual transmissions, the new vehicles from this brand will not appeal to the same people who are collecting BMWs from the more distant and recent past. Whether BMW will attract a new population of collectors, or whether some of the current collectors will change their standards to accommodate the new vehicles is an open question.

Those E82 and E88 vehicles that end up in the "collector channel" will get used to a much lesser extent and rack up the miles/kms at a much slower rate than cars driven as DD/primary vehicles. As such, it can be expected that to the extent that mechanical and other problems are related to mileage, there will be a lot less of these problems in lightly used vehicles, at least until the effects of age itself begins to wreck havoc with parts sitting barely used. Collectors don't tend to complain as much about problems with their cars, in part because they are more tolerant of these, but also because they happen less often since the cars aren't used much. Since complaints are the "coin of the realm" in online forums, you can expect that as these vehicles go more and more to collectors, complaint frequency will go down. This doesn't really indicate that the cars are reliable, just that they are being used less and that the owner/collectors expect problems as part of the collecting experience, so they are more likely to pay their independent garage to fix them than they are to vent on an online forum.

Which of the 1-Series cars are destined to end up in the collectors' channel? In my very biased opinion, these will be, (from most desired to least), 1Ms, 135is (especially 6MT), and lower mileage 6MT examples of 135i and 128i vehicles with sports seats and sport suspensions. Since the 128i 6MT with a sports package are relatively rare, and being as the 128i is the last NA BMW likely to ever be made, well-kept, low mileage, 128i examples in this configuration may be especially attractive to collectors, going forward. AT vehicles were produced in larger quantities, plus by their nature appeal less to "driving enthusiasts," hence will be less likely to become collectibles. As with any collectible car, unmolested/stock versions will be greatly preferred over those that have been extensively modified.

That's why we're keeping the wife's 128i M-Sport 6MT convertible until the wheels fall off...

[tock172]

champignon Very astute comments. I tend to agree with most of what you said above. My 135i 6MT falls into the collector segment of the market you mentioned. I have low mileage, drive the car only when I know I'll actually enjoy it, and it's also stock with plans to stay that way aside from small, tasteful and fully reversible modifications. The 135i certainly has the appeal of the last enthusiast BMW because of the small E36 like dimensions, hydraulic steering and manual transmission option. I have a ton of friends that consider themselves to be hardcore auto enthusiasts that really don't find much about newer cars appealing, but they all applauded my decision to purchase a 135i after my M3.

[RoundelM3]

The one thing about the 128i that makes it more of a "traditional" BMW for me is its naturally-aspirated engine, and it reminds me quite a bit of my previous E46 330i ZHP. With the turbo engines now being the status quo, it's the last of the newer cars with NA inline-6 engines, along with the 3.0 Z4 coupe and roadster and the M versions of those cars. Either way, all of the 1 series models represent the end of an era.

[brocklanders]

When I purchased this vehicle I also believed it was the end of an era. But now a year and a half later, after the novelty wore off, I believe that it is the beginning of an era, with its incredibly intrusive traction control and dsc, and the throttle delay. I do understand that dsc can be turned off and the throttle delay is not crippling, even though I've been driving e90's for seven years now, these shortcomings never bothered me until I started autocrossing about a year ago. The e46 is looking better and better, it's just too bad everyone asks more than they're worth for a good example.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by brocklanders

When I purchased this vehicle I also believed it was the end of an era. But now a year and a half later, after the novelty wore off, I believe that it is the beginning of an era, with its incredibly intrusive traction control and dsc, and the throttle delay. I do understand that dsc can be turned off and the throttle delay is not crippling, even though I've been driving e90's for seven years now, these shortcomings never bothered me until I started autocrossing about a year ago. The e46 is looking better and better, it's just too bad everyone asks more than they're worth for a good example.

I spent the better part of a year looking for a good unmolested example of an E46 M3, at a reasonable price. I gave up; I have better things to do with my time than chase those cars. Plus the butt ends have a tendency to disintegrate because the rear subframe floor was not well-engineered.

There is a cult surrounding Z3 Coupes (especially the M's) that has similar pluses and minuses, however it is much easier to find an unmolested collectible example than with the #46 M3s, especially if you look for the S52 rather than S54 engine examples.

[mcompact]

I've owned BMWs since 1983, and at one point had four in the garage- but I doubt I will ever buy another one. BMW is making it clear that their priority is to cater to the dweebs who wear their cars as opposed to driving them. Munich's "So you want a BMW that drives like a BMW should? Well, it's gonna cost you!" attitude is galling. The last straw was BMW wanting over $3k to port-install a mechanical LSD on a M235i. My Mazdaspeed 3 work beater came with one standard, as does virtually every V8 ponycar. Other sport oriented cars such as the GTI and MX-5 offer an optional LSD for much less. I'm holding on to my E36/5 forever, but that's it for me and the cars from Munich.

[KNS]

Originally Posted by champignon

You will never find a German car, any German car, that is as reliable as your typical Japanese car. That's just a fact, and if you are waiting around for this to happen you will wait a long time, like for the earth to change its axis of rotation around the sun.

BMWs used to be worth owning in spite of their limitations, because they were fun to drive. Unfortunately, that doesn't any longer appear to be part of the master recipe, and BMW is going after the same buyers who seek out the Japanese luxury cars, but perhaps with a bit more prestige, while jettisoning any semblance of producing drivers' cars.

It will probably come back to bite them in the ass, because their sameness with the Japanese brands will beget the obvious comparisons over reliability, which a lot of BMW enthusiast drivers were willing to overlook in the past.

Maybe not so, in the future.

Agree with all of this (and your other posts, too).

For far too long now people have said: "Well, it's German, you just can't expect them to be as reliable as a similar Japanese car".

I say bullshit. For the premium paid on your BMW, they should be setting the bar when it comes to not only performance but reliability. The should be absolutely bulletproof. So much so that other brands would want to aspire to BMW performance and reliability.

Has anyone here ever taken a look at a Hyundai Genesis four door sedan? Fantastic fit and finish, decent performance and ride and a 100,000 mile warranty! Yet so many people automatically dismiss them (I really don't want one either). Perhaps someday, though... People should write to BMW and demand an answer: "Hyundai offers a 100K warranty, why won't you?".

BMWs (and Mercedes, Porsche, etc) simply have an allure and appeal that Hyundai will never have. BMW knows this and can continue selling the same lousy reliability (compared to Asian cars) that they always have.

I also don't see myself buying any new, or newer German car. New BMWs, new 911s, leave me running out the dealership door. Many others feel the same way which is why you see cars like old BMWs, old air cooled Porsches skyrocketing in value.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by KNS

People should write to BMW and demand an answer: "Hyundai offers a 100K warranty, why won't you?".

BMWs (and Mercedes, Porsche, etc) simply have an allure and appeal that Hyundai will never have. BMW knows this and can continue selling the same lousy reliability (compared to Asian cars) that they always have.

I also don't see myself buying any new, or newer German car. New BMWs, new 911s, leave me running out the dealership door. Many others feel the same way which is why you see cars like old BMWs, old air cooled Porsches skyrocketing in value.

In all honesty, I don't think that BMWs were ever very reliable . . . . they were just easier and cheaper to fix when they weren't full of electronic-everything.

The consumer response to these reliability issues is muted, due to the fact that so many of these cars are leased, and during the lease period the factory warranty is still in effect. Once these cars are resold, those coming from BMW dealers typically have a CPO warranty which lessens the bite for the first few years of ownership of the previously used vehicle. If the car is resold by another type of dealer (other brand, 2nd-hand car dealer) then the customer can gripe, but his connection to the brand and to the brand's dealers is tenuous at best, and BMW always has the fallback argument that the prior owner(s) abused the car in some way.

At least we know what we are getting into.

From my own perspective, I've tried to deal with this by purchasing newer-used cars, with lowish mileage, and hopefully some remaining warranty.

[blue135]

This whole topic is fraught with opinion and a wide spread of priorities that all change as we age. My wife drives a Hyundai Genesis and it is the first car in 40 years that she really likes. Extremely reliable, comfortable and reasonably powerful for a V-6.

But if it is 2 people or less, i will always drive my e88. it is too much fun. I recognize i will be spending money on the water pump and ongoing maintenance. But i am willing to live with that.

However, it is unlikely i will own/drive a new BMW since i agree the change in the BMW corporate priorities make them less attractive.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by mcompact

I've owned BMWs since 1983, and at one point had four in the garage- but I doubt I will ever buy another one. BMW is making it clear that their priority is to cater to the dweebs who wear their cars as opposed to driving them. Munich's "So you want a BMW that drives like a BMW should? Well, it's gonna cost you!" attitude is galling. The last straw was BMW wanting over $3k to port-install a mechanical LSD on a M235i. My Mazdaspeed 3 work beater came with one standard, as does virtually every V8 ponycar. Other sport oriented cars such as the GTI and MX-5 offer an optional LSD for much less. I'm holding on to my E36/5 forever, but that's it for me and the cars from Munich.

In all fairness, only M-model BMWs have come with an LSD as standard. Almost all, if not all, non-M models haven't had one, including the e36s (only the e36M3 had one). The fact that it is even an option for the M235i, which is not a "real M", is already pretty good. But I agree with you...it does come at a cost.

[mcompact]

Originally Posted by Cal

In all fairness, only M-model BMWs have come with an LSD as standard. Almost all, if not all, non-M models haven't had one, including the e36s (only the e36M3 had one). The fact that it is even an option for the M235i, which is not a "real M", is already pretty good. But I agree with you...it does come at a cost.

In 1995 I ordered my E36/5 Club Sport with a 25% locking diff; the cost was $500($780 in today's dollars).

[jkoral]

Originally Posted by Cal

In all fairness, only M-model BMWs have come with an LSD as standard. Almost all, if not all, non-M models haven't had one, including the e36s (only the e36M3 had one). The fact that it is even an option for the M235i, which is not a "real M", is already pretty good. But I agree with you...it does come at a cost.

+1

Factory LSD was available on multiple non-M E36 models up until early 1996. LSD and ASC+T were mutually exclusive options in 1996 but most US bound cars came with ASC+T. Traction control (ASC+T) became standard in 1997 and the factory LSD was no longer offered (on non-M models).

I had my dealer try to locate an LSD equipped E36/5 in April 1996, and he couldn't find one (and I didn't want to wait to order). I remember the $500 cost of LSD, I think ASC+T was the same or slightly more.