custom vs bought exhaust

[Freon]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Why would you use dual pipes when a single pipe is more surface area, lighter and flows better? So when piping itself is under $100 (including bends) where does that leave the rest of the cost? Mufflers? Well, Borla and Magnaflow both offer highflow and fairly quiet options for under $150. Hangers can be done by ANY competent exhaust shop, I've seen it done a million times over - What else is there?

$100 including bends? Good luck with that. I think you're at least 3:1 on material costs. As I said, I think you're looking at $350 as a bare minimum just for total material cost for the most basic setup, especially for a car with a dual outlet to the

Hangers are not free. I'm not sure what your point is there. They're not that significant, but all those small items like flanges, hangers, tips, etc. add up fast.

Do you have a custom exhaust made from the dudes at Midas you'd like to show off? Can you post your receipt?

[/quote]You're obviously a brand snob who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about, and thinks that everyone one the internet is just as uninformed as he is. It's getting old - quick.[/QUOTE]
Please present your argument using facts and rational argument. Calling people names isn't helping anyone and only makes you look childish.

Would you care to guess as to my current exhaust setup? Or what I had on my old STI.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by Freon

$100 including bends? Good luck with that. I think you're at least 3:1 on material costs. As I said, I think you're looking at $350 as a bare minimum just for total material cost for the most basic setup, especially for a car with a dual outlet to the

Hangers are not free. I'm not sure what your point is there. They're not that significant, but all those small items like flanges, hangers, tips, etc. add up fast.

Do you have a custom exhaust made from the dudes at Midas you'd like to show off? Can you post your receipt?

You're obviously a brand snob who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about, and thinks that everyone one the internet is just as uninformed as he is. It's getting old - quick.[/QUOTE]
Please present your argument using facts and rational argument. Calling people names isn't helping anyone and only makes you look childish.

Would you care to guess as to my current exhaust setup? Or what I had on my old STI.[/QUOTE]

It's ok to be wrong:
http://www.summitracing.com/search/d...-and-turndowns

It's not ok to be ignorant - I can show you a few dyno plots of the intake and exhaust I helped design that made power over the existing parts in place (Like a magnaflow exhaust for the E46 330i)

And here is where I get serious - If there was actual R&D brought into products, wouldn't they all be the same? When it comes to headers, You account for head flow, Cam lift/duration and operating range and building your primaries and secondary around this - If everyone did this, headers would all generally be functionally similar. The same goes for exhaust - instead you have people marketing you "welds" and "sound" and throwing around arbitrary word like "quality" which they (or you) can't substantiate.

[CGMike]

I was quoted $350 (if I remember correctly) to do a custom quad style exhaust with a magnaflow muffler and I would supply the tips (really good exhaust place). The pros with custom, is you can pick out your muffler/tips/size/etc and it is sometimes(usually) a little cheaper than a off the shelf catback. The cons are that the welds arent usually as nice as an off the shelf catback, a lot of exhaust places dont use stainless steel tubing (you could bring in your own tough), and a lot of them dont have a mandrel bender.
Pros of an off the shelf: They usually look really good all polished and with sweet welds, mandrel bends. Mandrel bends flow a little better than crush bends but most cars wont know the difference unless they are really high HP. You know what it will sound like generally before you buy it (videos). and the higher end brands fit great. The cons: expensive. If you cant install yourself, you are still paying an exaust place a couple hundered bucks to install it. It might not be exactly what you want.

Just my opinion. I have had many high hp cars and everything from custom to off the shelf exhaust. If its a show car, get an off the shelf exhaust or polish your custom exhaust. If you want to save money and/or want something wild/different, get a custom exhaust.
My truck is custom and I paid less than $300 for true dual exaust with an Xpipe. Off the shelf that wouldve cost me well over $1000. I love the way it sounds and get compliments all the time on it.
My GTO has a true 3inch magnaflow catback with Xpipe. It is a $1000 exhaust (I got it for free because my car was the test car.)
My WRX has a custom 3inch cat back with maganflow muffler and mandrel bends (painted black). It sounds great and is quiet at cruise.
My VW has been through all kinds of different exhaust and currently has a custom one but Im not happy with the way it looks. I want the same sound but something nicer
My BMW has a megan racing quad catback that I had the tips shortened on. I wish it was a little louder but it has a resonator that I could delete. It wouldve been expensive but its the same deal as the GTO.
Theres by break down for you, sorry for the long post. Here is the word POTATO!

[edisapimp]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Obviously an idiot who believe he has "money" driving a preowned 1 series. Why would I envy you or anyone else on this board when there are people who are truely wealthy I could resent?

Most of these companies that produce these products don't R&D: they make a guess, mock up some JIGs and mass produce a product. Raw material cost are cheap, labor equally as so - many products (after the design phase) are manufactured in Asia, and shipped over.

This bottom feeder here believes that a name brand automatically offers a substantial boost in what you're able to manufacture yourself, or believes that 304 stainless steel at one shop is different than the 304 grade stainless of another.

Who said anything about envying me? Who said anything about me being (or pretending to be) wealthy? That's your own insecurity inserting what you're hoping is true about me, dude. Bad news, that ain't the case. I couldn't care less what you think about me from the other side of your computer screen, and if you want a battle of the wits (in reference to calling me an idiot,) pick on someone in your own weight class, because here you are clearly outmatched.

Yes, I bought my 1 series used, I've bought every car I've ever owned used. I have never claimed (and will never claim) to be wealthy.

This bottom feeder (me), believes that a name brand product with a good development will trump something that an exhaust shop throws together with 304 stainless or any other metal every day of the week. I'm not sure why you believe that since "Most of these companies don't R&D" (quote from you,) that subsequently none of them do - that's naive. There are companies that do a shit ton of R&D, and their products will outperform, out-fit, outlast, and outclass anything from an exhaust shop 99 times out of 100.

Last thing before I ignore you for the rest of my life: Stop saying "You're obviously ____" when you are the only one that it's obvious to.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by edisapimp

Who said anything about envying me? Who said anything about me being (or pretending to be) wealthy? That's your own insecurity inserting what you're hoping is true about me, dude. Bad news, that ain't the case. I couldn't care less what you think about me from the other side of your computer screen, and if you want a battle of the wits (in reference to calling me an idiot,) pick on someone in your own weight class, because here you are clearly outmatched.

Yes, I bought my 1 series used, I've bought every car I've ever owned used. I have never claimed (and will never claim) to be wealthy.

This bottom feeder (me), believes that a name brand product with a good development will trump something that an exhaust shop throws together with 304 stainless or any other metal every day of the week. I'm not sure why you believe that since "Most of these companies don't R&D" (quote from you,) that subsequently none of them do - that's naive. There are companies that do a shit ton of R&D, and their products will outperform, out-fit, outlast, and outclass anything from an exhaust shop 99 times out of 100.

Last thing before I ignore you for the rest of my life: Stop saying "You're obviously ____" when you are the only one that it's obvious to.

Thoroughly schooled and continues to come back for more, are you a glutton for punishment or what?

You're *obviously* one of those people who don't like the fact that people can buy whatever the hell they want for whatever the hell reason they want. Are you poor?

What did my income have to do with the situation? Would my opinion be less vaulable if I was lower income?
Next you prattle off how a "brand name product will trump something an exhaust shop throws together" With no examples of course.

I already pointed out how and why we KNOW most of these companies don't do any R&D on these parts - Because people like you believe marketing and are willing to pay money for it.

[Freon]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Thoroughly schooled ...

According to whom?

You've accomplished little more than making yourself look like a immature brat with the "schooled," "you're obviously a brand snob," "you're obvious an idiot," etc. comments. There are just not the type of things adults reply with when someone challenges a position.

Your posts are projection as a defensive mechanism or simple grade-school name calling because you do not understand how to maturely react or reply to challenges to your own assertions.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by Freon

According to whom?

You've accomplished little more than making yourself look like a immature brat with the "schooled," "you're obviously a brand snob," "you're obvious an idiot," etc. comments. There are just not the type of things adults reply with when someone challenges a position.

Your posts are projection as a defensive mechanism or simple grade-school name calling because you do not understand how to maturely react or reply to challenges to your own assertions.

We get it, you're either unknowledgeable or uncapable to build a custom exhaust and prefer to have a brand name product. The conversation should have ended there, but instead you (and others) continue to prattle off on matters you're not familiar with, and have been proven wrong every single time.

Cost? Custom is cheaper
Quality? Again, it's absolutely possible to have equal or greater quality
Gains? Once more, I offered to show you a custom exhaust making power on a n/a car over a brand name exhaust.

What leg do you literally have to stand on at this point?

OP, if you have a specific goal in mind and have a competent exhaust shop in your area - go with a custom exhaust. Otherwise, a off the shelf brand name one isn't a terrible option as long as it's what YOU want.

[BBursey]

Wow...

Unsubscribe...

Cheers,
Bryan

[Nugget]

I've been through three revisions with my custom exhaust and I'm still not 100% happy, for the price I could have bought two 'name' brand systems. There is also the resale factor. You will struggle to resell a custom job.

[Taskmaster]

For a Turbocharged car with a single exit, how hard is it to make a single 3 inch exhaust with an inline resonator and muffler?

Seriously?

[tracer bullet]

Dude, Ax, Jesus give it up. You've made your point again and again. You believe a custom set up is best, others believe off the shelf is best. Everyone's either got their own *opinion* already, if not they've gfot plenty of info to think about and make one.

But in addition to that discussion, you're just getting riled up and subsequently being a dick with anyone that doesn't share your opinion. Relax, get a beer, and go find a more worthwhile fight.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

For a Turbocharged car with a single exit, how hard is it to make a single 3 inch exhaust with an inline resonator and muffler?

Seriously?

Hard apparently. I've used two different shops and spent too much money trying.
Ended up with twin 2.5" midpipes with Magnaflow resonators and no muffler.

[Everfly]

I had 3 different axle back and i am not liking any of those and went back to stock lol
1st magnaflow
2nd RE
3 CPE
The tips too short for my Performance diffusor
The 4th i bought would take care the problem but i end up sold it ( HPF )
I seen some custom exhaust with perfect weld same as any brand name out there but the price not cheaper and i see alot of shitty weld custom exhaust and i would never ever install in my cars even if i have shitty car lol and MIDAS sucks lol
It's all about what you want to do with your car and your money, who care what people say, it's your choice. BTW for everyone with custom exhaust good luck getting your money back

[brusk]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

For a Turbocharged car with a single exit, how hard is it to make a single 3 inch exhaust with an inline resonator and muffler?

Seriously?

Not arguing the size requirements for power levels or axle back restrictions a 3" mid pipe has less area for flow that the two stock pipes. You have to step up to a 3.5" pipe to get more flow and then you start having space limitations at the cross brace in the back.

I'm not sure why this discussion is still going on, sure if you don't mind using cheap parts you can have an inexpensive exhaust. But to get anything in the same quality range as most of the off the shelf options the savings are very minimal. Add up materials but $100/hr for a skilled fabricator/welder and see what you come up with. I can tell you I couldn't make my Berk Street setup for cheaper so I bought it.

@CGMike - not sure how you got a true dual exhaust with an x pipe for under $300 bucks. Maybe youve got excellent negotiating skills but a statement like that a person typically things you used the cheapest parts possibly for an exhaust that will rust out in 2 years. I can tell you I've put an exhaust on a Supercharged 5.4 F150 where the magnalow Xpipe and mufflers alone costed over $300 without the pipes, bends, welding materials and labor.

[CGMike]

Originally Posted by brusk

@CGMike - not sure how you got a true dual exhaust with an x pipe for under $300 bucks. Maybe youve got excellent negotiating skills but a statement like that a person typically things you used the cheapest parts possibly for an exhaust that will rust out in 2 years. I can tell you I've put an exhaust on a Supercharged 5.4 F150 where the magnalow Xpipe and mufflers alone costed over $300 without the pipes, bends, welding materials and labor.

its 2.5inch aluminized steel, with flowmaster 40s, the shop made the Xpipe, and the tips are stainless steel. I bought the mufflers from someone that bought them and didnt use them, he sold them both for $50. This is on my truck and dont really need stainless in desert of CA. Ive also taken about a dozen cars to this place over the years, so they know me pretty well. Its been on the truck for about 5 years and looks the same as the day I put it on. The true duals defeintely helped with low and top end and I didnt want to spend a lot of money on my truck, so I did it the cheapest way possible. I have excellent negotiating skills and never pay full price for anything. I was just telling the OP he had options and giving him a break down of those options. This thread has turned into a pissing contest...

[brusk]

Originally Posted by CGMike

its 2.5inch aluminized steel, with flowmaster 40s, the shop made the Xpipe, and the tips are stainless steel. I bought the mufflers from someone that bought them and didnt use them, he sold them both for $50. This is on my truck and dont really need stainless in desert of CA. Ive also taken about a dozen cars to this place over the years, so they know me pretty well. Its been on the truck for about 5 years and looks the same as the day I put it on. The true duals defeintely helped with low and top end and I didnt want to spend a lot of money on my truck, so I did it the cheapest way possible. I have excellent negotiating skills and never pay full price for anything. I was just telling the OP he had options and giving him a break down of those options. This thread has turned into a pissing contest...

Yeah wasn't trying to start anything just saying that a blank statement and price leads people to think you get what you pay for for that. But sounds like you got a steal on the labor. Little off topic but on my 07 Ram 1500 Hemi I did minor testing of dual vs factory modified single (replacing muffler with 3" straight through and dropping the secondary muffler) the duals were only a very minimal gain with a slight drop in low end. I stayed with the single setup and picked up 50WHP with just ebay headers, modified exhaust, ebay intake and a tuner.

[CGMike]

Originally Posted by brusk

Yeah wasn't trying to start anything just saying that a blank statement and price leads people to think you get what you pay for for that. But sounds like you got a steal on the labor. Little off topic but on my 07 Ram 1500 Hemi I did minor testing of dual vs factory modified single (replacing muffler with 3" straight through and dropping the secondary muffler) the duals were only a very minimal gain with a slight drop in low end. I stayed with the single setup and picked up 50WHP with just ebay headers, modified exhaust, ebay intake and a tuner.

On the Dakota (5.9L Magnum) it has 3 cats (one on each bank and one in the stock Y pipe). I elminated the 3rd cat with my true dual set up. That was probably the big increase in power I felt. Im in CA so I cant do too many mods because of SMOG (it passes smog when I put the stock intake back on with only 2 cats). Im happy with it and it is a blast to drive.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by brusk

Not arguing the size requirements for power levels or axle back restrictions a 3" mid pipe has less area for flow that the two stock pipes. You have to step up to a 3.5" pipe to get more flow and then you start having space limitations at the cross brace in the back.

I'm not sure why this discussion is still going on, sure if you don't mind using cheap parts you can have an inexpensive exhaust. But to get anything in the same quality range as most of the off the shelf options the savings are very minimal. Add up materials but $100/hr for a skilled fabricator/welder and see what you come up with. I can tell you I couldn't make my Berk Street setup for cheaper so I bought it.

@CGMike - not sure how you got a true dual exhaust with an x pipe for under $300 bucks. Maybe youve got excellent negotiating skills but a statement like that a person typically things you used the cheapest parts possibly for an exhaust that will rust out in 2 years. I can tell you I've put an exhaust on a Supercharged 5.4 F150 where the magnalow Xpipe and mufflers alone costed over $300 without the pipes, bends, welding materials and labor.

Area of a circle is A= πr2

3 inch circle has an area of 7.065
2 X 2 inch circles have area of 6.28'

What am I missing here?

[Freon]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Area of a circle is A= πr2

3 inch circle has an area of 7.065
2 X 2 inch circles have area of 6.28'

What am I missing here?

All the aftermarket twin exhausts are 2.5", and I believe even the factory part is dual 2.25".


Where did you get 2 x 2?

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by Freon

All the aftermarket twin exhausts are 2.5", and I believe even the factory part is dual 2.25".


Where did you get 2 x 2?

I'm under the impression the factory exhaust is double walled 58mm pipes (about 2.2inches) and inner diameter is actually 2". I multiplied the area by 2.

[Everfly]

50 years old hooker suck dick the same way as smoky hot 18 years blonde ( or better )$40 vs $350 i rather pay $350 lol
It all about how you want the quality or not, you guys want something cheap for your car go for it or not lol. Why fighting and act like little kids

[J_pasta]

Originally Posted by Everfly

50 years old hooker suck dick the same way as smoky hot 18 years blonde ( or better )$40 vs $350 i rather pay $350 lol
It all about how you want the quality or not, you guys want something cheap for your car go for it or not lol. Why fighting and act like little kids

lol this one got me rolling.