Oil Cooler

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance

Hey Vinney,

the twin oil cooler setup is specifically for the 335i.

The design of the front bar prevents us from installing a Setrab "Extra Wide" core without deleting the fog lights, which is not something we wish to do.

As such we will be using an oil cooler on either side of the front bar, which will have approximately half the volume of our 1 Series Stage 2 (20 row) unit.

The dual core setup for the 3 Series may have a total core volume which is greater than our 135i Stage 2 cooler, but it will not be super significant.

I do not have any further details on the 335i kits at this time, but as soon as Pete makes a start on the kits, I will have more information.

Cheers,

JD.

Ah okay, so you will be using 2 smaller cores to compensate.

Do you think it's possible to make a twin cooler utilising 2 x 20 row Setrab "extra wide" cores? I know it might be overkill but I think it would be the ultimate cooling solution.

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by BMW86

Ah okay, so you will be using 2 smaller cores to compensate.

Do you think it's possible to make a twin cooler utilising 2 x 20 row Setrab "extra wide" cores? I know it might be overkill but I think it would be the ultimate cooling solution.

Hey Vinney,

we could certainly do a dual 20 row "Extra Wide" core setup for the 135i, but as you said it would be "overkill".

Our Stage 2 oil cooler with the external thermostat, is a tremendous upgrade over the very small BMW OE oil cooler and very high temperature OE stat'.

I suspect you will be quite pleased with the oil temps you will see at the track, following the installation of our Stage 2 kit.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance

Hey Vinney,

we could certainly do a dual 20 row "Extra Wide" core setup for the 135i, but as you said it would be "overkill".

Our Stage 2 oil cooler with the external thermostat, is a tremendous upgrade over the very small BMW OE oil cooler and very high temperature OE stat'.

I suspect you will be quite pleased with the oil temps you will see at the track, following the installation of our Stage 2 kit.

Can you price out the dual 20 row *Extra Wide" core setup for me?

I know it might be overkill but your car isn't necessarily the ideal comparison as it's a manual. I know you are making a lot more power than me but I keep reading that the steptronics run a lot hotter.

If it's an reasonably priced option I'll consider it for sure.

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by BMW86

Can you price out the dual 20 row *Extra Wide" core setup for me?

I know it might be overkill but your car isn't necessarily the ideal comparison as it's a manual. I know you are making a lot more power than me but I keep reading that the steptronics run a lot hotter.

If it's an reasonably priced option I'll consider it for sure.

Hey Vinney,

whilst dual 20 row "Extra Wide" Setrab cores with the MOCAL 82 degrees Celsius external thermostat, would be by far the most bad ass set up on the market, I honestly think you would be better off installing our Advan/PWR "Close Mesh Core" AT rad' in conjunction with our Stage 2 oil cooler kit.

This would not only further reduce the thermal stress on the engine and ensure the reliability of the radiator under track conditions, but would also improve the efficiency of the trans cooler heat exchanger by a small margin too.

I believe there is a direct correlation between oil and water temps, as I am presently seeing increased water temps with our OE stat' Stage 1 oil cooler kit, over what I was familiar with when I was running the Stett Stage 2 kit with the MOCAL external stat'.

Alterantively you could install a PWR 5970 MT rad' and we could fabricate a stand alone trans cooler, thereby deleting the OE trans cooler/heat exchanger system and associated lines.

It would have to be quite a large unit, but it would surely out perform the efficiency of the OE trans cooler and remove all thermal load from the engine coolant system, if designed and implemented correctly.

Cheers,

JD.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance

Hey Vinney,

whilst dual 20 row "Extra Wide" Setrab cores with the MOCAL 82 degrees Celsius external thermostat, would be by far the most bad ass set up on the market, I honestly think you would be better off installing our Advan/PWR "Close Mesh Core" AT rad' in conjunction with our Stage 2 oil cooler kit.

This would not only further reduce the thermal stress on the engine and ensure the reliability of the radiator under track conditions, but would also improve the efficiency of the trans cooler heat exchanger by a small margin too.

I believe there is a direct correlation between oil and water temps, as I am presently seeing increased water temps with our OE stat' Stage 1 oil cooler kit, over what I was familiar with when I was running the Stett Stage 2 kit with the MOCAL external stat'.

Alterantively you could install a PWR 5970 MT rad' and we could fabricate a stand alone trans cooler, thereby deleting the OE trans cooler/heat exchanger system and associated lines.

It would have to be quite a large unit, but it would surely out perform the efficiency of the OE trans cooler and remove all thermal load from the engine coolant system, if designed and implemented correctly.

Cheers,

JD.

JD

I would like to install the AT radiator but last time I checked it was around $1200. Whilst I'm sure it is worth the money I'm just not prepared to spend that much at this stage. Also, most of my driving is in stop and go traffic so the temperature may increase in day to day driving with the "close mesh core". This would be a concern for me. I was not aware the 5970 MT rad is compatible with the AT, can you verify this? Even if it is, I think the Stage 2 + 5970 MT rad + custom fab trans cooler will be more than I'm willing to spend at this point in time. However, a trans cooler is definitely something I will look at doing later down the track. Are you able to tell me what extra components will be needed to upgrade the Stage 2 to an extra wide dual core?

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by BMW86

JD

I would like to install the AT radiator but last time I checked it was around $1200. Whilst I'm sure it is worth the money I'm just not prepared to spend that much at this stage. Also, most of my driving is in stop and go traffic so the temperature may increase in day to day driving with the "close mesh core". This would be a concern for me. I was not aware the 5970 MT rad is compatible with the AT, can you verify this? Even if it is, I think the Stage 2 + 5970 MT rad + custom fab trans cooler will be more than I'm willing to spend at this point in time. However, a trans cooler is definitely something I will look at doing later down the track. Are you able to tell me what extra components will be needed to upgrade the Stage 2 to an extra wide dual core?

Hi Vinney,

you are very much correct with regards the 5970 MT rad' being unsuitable for an AT vehicle.

What I was suggesting is that you could install a 5970 in conjunction with a stand alone external trans cooler.

The external dimensions of the BMW OE radiator for both manual and auotmatic transmission cars are the same, it's the cross flow baffle and the heat exchanger inlet/oulet spigots that differentiate the AT rad' from the MT version.

The below post from the "PWR radiator" thread on the 3 Series forum may be of interest to you.

Hey Gents,

given the amount of time and effort myself and Peter have put into sorting out the fitment requirements for the AT rad', we are certainly keen to see an upgraded PWR unit installed into an AT vehicle, hence our $200 down "fully refundable" offer.

Alternatively we would also like to offer a prospective customer who purcashes the very first AT sample unit, a ONE-OFF purchase price which is "trade", less 20%.

If the purcasher pays for the rad' up front, we will test fit the unit to our AT 335i shop-car.

Once direct fitment is confirmed we will then thoroughly evaluate its heat transfer capability both on and off the racetrack, in particular assessing its stop-go traffic cooling properties, which may be a concern in warmer climates.

There is no doubt Mark aka Orb is "across" the various design recquirements of an upgraded rad' for the AT vehicles, I applaud his enthusiasm as he persues his own build.

However I have the utmost confidence in the engineering and design knowledge of PWR, I suspect they know what they are doing too, as I think I read somewhere that they build radiators for a living.

Cheers,

JD.

With respect to your dual 20 row "Extra Wide" Setrab core Stage 3 aka "bad ass set up" , I will speak to Pete about the kit specifics tomorrow.

However off the top of my head you will obviously require the second 20 row "EW" cooler, 2 x M22 -10 AN adapters, 2 x Earl's "Ano-Tuff Swivel Seal" -10 AN hose end fittings, at least a further 1.5 metres of Earl's Pro-Lite Ultra -10 AN hose and of course a second mounting bracket that is a mirror of our original design.

You will also require the OE mounting hardware from the BMW PPK, that secures the supplemental rad' (which is essentially a revised OE oil cooler). Our oil cooler mouting bracket is secured by the two bolts that are a feature of that OE hardware.

As you can see there is quite a bit of componentry there, that is before you consider the labour time required to test fit all the components to a 1'er, to ensure that the installation will not become a massive headache for you.

Are you still interested Vinney?

IMHO,

you would be better off spending the additional cash on the PWR/Advan AT rad', but I know you are super keen to run twin (20 row "EW") oil coolers.

We can certainly do a "Custom Build" Stage 3 kit for you, but it ain't gonna' be cheap, sorry mate.

Cheers,

Justin.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance

Hi Vinney,

you are very much correct with regards the 5970 MT rad' being unsuitable for an AT vehicle.

What I was suggesting is that you could install a 5970 in conjunction with a stand alone external trans cooler.

The external dimensions of the BMW OE radiator for both manual and auotmatic transmission cars are the same, it's the cross flow baffle and the heat exchanger inlet/oulet spigots that differentiate the AT rad' from the MT version.

The below post from the "PWR radiator" thread on the 3 Series forum may be of interest to you.

Hey Gents,

given the amount of time and effort myself and Peter have put into sorting out the fitment requirements for the AT rad', we are certainly keen to see an upgraded PWR unit installed into an AT vehicle, hence our $200 down "fully refundable" offer.

Alternatively we would also like to offer a prospective customer who purcashes the very first AT sample unit, a ONE-OFF purchase price which is "trade", less 20%.

If the purcasher pays for the rad' up front, we will test fit the unit to our AT 335i shop-car.

Once direct fitment is confirmed we will then thoroughly evaluate its heat transfer capability both on and off the racetrack, in particular assessing its stop-go traffic cooling properties, which may be a concern in warmer climates.

There is no doubt Mark aka Orb is "across" the various design recquirements of an upgraded rad' for the AT vehicles, I applaud his enthusiasm as he persues his own build.

However I have the utmost confidence in the engineering and design knowledge of PWR, I suspect they know what they are doing too, as I think I read somewhere that they build radiators for a living.

Cheers,

JD.

With respect to your dual 20 row "Extra Wide" Setrab core Stage 3 aka "bad ass set up" , I will speak to Pete about the kit specifics tomorrow.

However off the top of my head you will obviously require the second 20 row "EW" cooler, 2 x M22 -10 AN adapters, 2 x Earl's "Ano-Tuff Swivel Seal" -10 AN hose end fittings, at least a further 1.5 metres of Earl's Pro-Lite Ultra -10 AN hose and of course a second mounting bracket that is a mirror of our original design.

You will also require the OE mounting hardware from the BMW PPK, that secures the supplemental rad' (which is essentially a revised OE oil cooler). Our oil cooler mouting bracket is secured by the two bolts that are a feature of that OE hardware.

As you can see there is quite a bit of componentry there, that is before you consider the labour time required to test fit all the components to a 1'er, to ensure that the installation will not become a massive headache for you.

Are you still interested Vinney?

IMHO,

you would be better off spending the additional cash on the PWR/Advan AT rad', but I know you are super keen to run twin (20 row "EW") oil coolers.

We can certainly do a "Custom Build" Stage 3 kit for you, but it ain't gonna' be cheap, sorry mate.

Cheers,

Justin.

Hi Justin

Thanks for the thorough responses. I appreciate you taking the time to answer all of my questions. I'm learning a lot along the way too.

At this stage I'm not interested in the AT rad until more R&D is done. My car is a daily driver 98% of the time, although this may change in future years once my build is finished and I pick up another daily driver. Any increase in temps would be very detrimental, especially since I'm based in Brisbane/Gold Coast and it is quite warm up here.

In regards to the dual core setup, it appears there is quite a bit of extra componentry equating to a lot more costs. I do agree, this would be a really badass setup, and the ultimate oil cooling solution possible. I've already committed to paying $1000 for Stage 2, but I'm open to spending more if an even better solution becomes available such as this dual 20 row "Extra Wide" Setrab core Stage 3 aka "bad ass set up"

I have another question, if I purchase the Stage 2 and install it. Can I upgrade to the Stage 3 buy purchasing the extra componentry at a later point? I know this is possible with the ER oil cooler options. If this is possible, then this would probably be the best option for me.

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by BMW86

Hi Justin

Thanks for the thorough responses. I appreciate you taking the time to answer all of my questions. I'm learning a lot along the way too.

At this stage I'm not interested in the AT rad until more R&D is done. My car is a daily driver 98% of the time, although this may change in future years once my build is finished and I pick up another daily driver. Any increase in temps would be very detrimental, especially since I'm based in Brisbane/Gold Coast and it is quite warm up here.

In regards to the dual core setup, it appears there is quite a bit of extra componentry equating to a lot more costs. I do agree, this would be a really badass setup, and the ultimate oil cooling solution possible. I've already committed to paying $1000 for Stage 2, but I'm open to spending more if an even better solution becomes available such as this dual 20 row "Extra Wide" Setrab core Stage 3 aka "bad ass set up"

I have another question, if I purchase the Stage 2 and install it. Can I upgrade to the Stage 3 buy purchasing the extra componentry at a later point? I know this is possible with the ER oil cooler options. If this is possible, then this would probably be the best option for me.

Hi Vinney,

you could certainly upgrade to a dual core system at a later date, whilst retaining the use of pretty much all of the Stage 2 components.

After speaking to Peter today about your interest in a Stage 3 aka "bad ass set up", he concurred with my assessment of the additional components required.

He also mentioned that if you are super keen to run a dual core configuration, you would be best to take a drive to Sydney, so Peter and the boys can take care of the installation for you.

If you are happy enough with our Stage 2 kit, with a bit of care and patience you should be able to install that in your garage, as the R & D to ensure ease of fitment, has already been done for both the Stage 1 & Stage 2 kits.

Cheers,

JD.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance

Hi Vinney,

you could certainly upgrade to a dual core system at a later date, whilst retaining the use of pretty much all of the Stage 2 components.

After speaking to Peter today about your interest in a Stage 3 aka "bad ass set up", he concurred with my assessment of the additional components required.

He also mentioned that if you are super keen to run a dual core configuration, you would be best to take a drive to Sydney, so Peter and the boys can take care of the installation for you.

If you are happy enough with our Stage 2 kit, with a bit of care and patience you should be able to install that in your garage, as the R & D to ensure ease of fitment, has already been done for both the Stage 1 & Stage 2 kits.

Cheers,

JD.

Hi JD

Based on that info I think I'll stick with the Stage 2 setup for now and I'll upgrade to the Stage 3 if I feel the need to later down the track. I have actually considered driving down to Sydney for the install before but I'm thinking I need to buy a few other mods to make the trip even more worthwhile I did the Brisbane to Sydney run about 7 months ago, I should have popped into Advan whilst I was down there then!

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by BMW86

Hi JD

Based on that info I think I'll stick with the Stage 2 setup for now and I'll upgrade to the Stage 3 if I feel the need to later down the track. I have actually considered driving down to Sydney for the install before but I'm thinking I need to buy a few other mods to make the trip even more worthwhile I did the Brisbane to Sydney run about 7 months ago, I should have popped into Advan whilst I was down there then!

Hey Vinney,

that's cool, I am sure you will be very happy with our Stage 2 (20 row) "Extra Wide" core set up.

I am not one for cutting corners and our Stage 2 oil cooler kit with Mocal external stat', will be going into my car prior to the Eastern Creek track day and I suspect it will be there to stay.

Cheers.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance

Hey Vinney,

that's cool, I am sure you will be very happy with our Stage 2 (20 row) "Extra Wide" core set up.

I am not one for cutting corners and our Stage 2 oil cooler kit with Mocal external stat', will be going into my car prior to the Eastern Creek track day and I suspect it will be there to stay.

Cheers.

Yes, shame I won't have it before my track day this week coming but I should definitely have it for the next one. I'm very keen to see how it performs, hopefully no more dreaded limp

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by BMW86

Yes, shame I won't have it before my track day this week coming but I should definitely have it for the next one. I'm very keen to see how it performs, hopefully no more dreaded limp

Hey mate,

we should have the first production sample of our oil cooler mounting bracket completed this week.

The production bracket is comprised of several 3 mm steel plates, hopefully they will arrive from the laser cutter today or tomorrow.

Once they are welded up we will test fit the completed bracket to my car.

If fitment is spot on and we are happy with the quality of finish of the laser cut steel, it just needs to be powder coated.

Following that the 135i Stage 1 & Stage 2 oil cooler kits are pretty much squared away, so it's onto the 3 Series kits.

Subsequently we will do a small production run on the bracket components, to cover our initial 135i orders.

Yes Vinney,

no more "dreaded limp mode" for you mate, as a result of engine oil temps.

[BMW86]

Any more updates Justin? Still limpin

[micha3l]

Originally Posted by BMW86

Any more updates Justin? Still limpin

+1 I need one too!

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by BMW86

Any more updates Justin? Still limpin

Hi Vinney,

we did not hear from the laser cutter this week, so I imagine they were delayed by another project they are working on.

Originally Posted by micha3l

+1 I need one too!

Hey mate,

I will touch base with them on Monday, hopefully the bracket components will be delivered to Advan very soon.

Cheers,

Justin.

[BMW86]

Hmm what other project is your laser cutter working on? Something for our cars?

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by BMW86

Hmm what other project is your laser cutter working on? Something for our cars?

Sorry Vinney, I do not believe that is the case.

They are just taking their sweet time, but we will contact them today, hopefully they are done with the first production sample and just forgot to call us last week.

Cheers,

JD.

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Hey guys,

I almost forgot I had taken these pics of the oil filter housing -10 AN adapter, silly me.

The pics are not up to my usual composition standard, but it's damn hard to get a camera in there and have it focus correctly.

Anyway I think you get the idea.

FYI,

the 2 x 45 degree hose end fittings you see are Fragola, not the Earl's "Ano-Tuff Swivel Seal fittings" we will be supplying with the kits.

When we fitted the Stage 1 kit up to my car, we did not have the 45's from Earl's available to us.

However the oil line you see is in fact the Pro-Lite Ultra -10 AN hose.

Cheers.

[BMW86]

Looks good

[TimMc]

Now I've bought better water cooling via Andrew's BMW performance Kit I'd like to renege on my intention to buy the oil cooler + radiator. I still want to buy the upgraded oil cooler however! Any other takers on the oil cooler upgrade so Advan can get to at least the five orders they need to deliver us reasonable pricing?

1. TimMc (Stage 1 oil cooler)

2. BMW86 (Stage 2 oil cooler)

3. alik01 (Stage 2 oil cooler)

4.

5.

[micha3l]

1. TimMc (Stage 1 oil cooler)

2. BMW86 (Stage 2 oil cooler)

3. alik01 (Stage 2 oil cooler)

4.Micha3l (Stage 2 oil cooler)

5.

[alik01]

One more!