The 1 series fuel efficiency

hector · 05-23-2007, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brett8210

"guy who basically derived his driving pleasure from maximizing his fuel economy"

He must be fun at parties. Sorry I couldn't resist

lol, no offense taken.

bum944 · 05-24-2007, 11:30 AM

In regards to the fun/economy trade-off, most of the european road tests I've read prefer the diesel versions of the 3-series over all the other engine choices they have. And it is not because of the fuel economy. The reason is that in daily driving, it's the torque that makes the car more fun compared the gasoline models. I find that a bit hard to believe, but I've read the same result more than once. So I think a properly sorted common-rail turbo diesel could be the ideal trade-off.

Regarding hybrids, the head of Fiat engine development said they run the numbers every year and they just don't add up. The thermodynamic efficiency just doesn't make sense on a hybrid. Personally I think hybrids may only be acceptable as mid-term solution.

Yesterday in Autoweek there was an article about the upcoming ('08?) replacement for the Accord. It said Honda is not developing a hybrid version due to slow sales of the existing models. They will however, offer a diesel version in 2 years.

kere · 05-24-2007, 01:24 PM

I wasn't sure about diesels until I drove the 330d. Ok, my previous diesel experience was from the 90's, my friends dad drove an old Mercedes diesel and the only thing I remember was the thick black smoke that filled the air when he started it and the fact that it took something like 30 seconds to accelerate from 0-100

But anyway, over the years I have noticed that I don't really need the performance from 0-100. I need it somewhere around 80-100km/h and that's where diesels are at their best.

bum944 · 05-25-2007, 12:14 PM

Here's some more ammo in the diesel vs hybrid discussion (this is from the Car magazine website).....

"Mini today announced it will fit many of the Efficient Dynamics tech already seen on the 1-series to all new hatchbacks fitted with the new PSA engines. The result? A Cooper D will now emit just 104g/km of CO2 - matching the signficantly more expensive Toyota Prius.

And average fuel consumption on the diesel climbs to 72.4mpg - around eight miles further than before - to beat even the petrol-electric Prius. Click 'Next' to read all about the technology that makes such impressive figures possible without resorting to complicated hybrid systems."

In this case, the diesel tech is as clean as a Prius, gets better fuel economy and cost much less. Oh, and the Prius is a bore to drive.

PACIFICONE2003 · 05-25-2007, 04:43 PM

Bring on the Diesels! I agree with you in regards to the complicated technology of the hybrids.....I would never own one beyond the warranty. Like the Energizer bunny…the diesels keep going keep going keep going….

superlight · 05-26-2007, 06:17 AM

Do the 6 cylinder engines in the BMW line have this engine cut off, or just the 4 cylinders? This would be a nice boost for the USA if we are just getting the 6 cylinder engines.

aesthetect · 05-30-2007, 10:59 AM

actually hybrid powertrains (the mild versions that have been produced up to now, anyway) tend to be more reliable than typical internal combustion engines, but the control systems are complicated. and i belive this was somewhat said but if you are concerned with emissions, diesels are not your friend - but they are getting much better.

also hybrids are not inherently slow. the ones in production are because they are striving to achieve MAX fuel efficiency. the concept of a plug in hybrid would allow one to design a powertrain and control system allowing a great balance of power, and very fun to drive.

and with respect to all the talk of hybrid vs. new clean and effiecient diesels.. let us all remember that these are both technologies that are just getting going and neither is a final destination. we are a long way away from a transportation/power-machinery solution that will allow us to live in complete ecological balance with our surroundings. and i cannot say that i believe taxation on gas is the solution, but there is certainly a need for more money for R&D and there still remains a substantial need for a large portion of the market to get motivated in this trend. as brett said this is a complex problem and it will have a complex solution.

05-24-2007, 11:30 AM	#46
bum944 Enlisted Member 1 Rep 43 Posts Drives: Join Date: Nov 2006 iTrader: (0)	In regards to the fun/economy trade-off, most of the european road tests I've read prefer the diesel versions of the 3-series over all the other engine choices they have. And it is not because of the fuel economy. The reason is that in daily driving, it's the torque that makes the car more fun compared the gasoline models. I find that a bit hard to believe, but I've read the same result more than once. So I think a properly sorted common-rail turbo diesel could be the ideal trade-off. Regarding hybrids, the head of Fiat engine development said they run the numbers every year and they just don't add up. The thermodynamic efficiency just doesn't make sense on a hybrid. Personally I think hybrids may only be acceptable as mid-term solution. Yesterday in Autoweek there was an article about the upcoming ('08?) replacement for the Accord. It said Honda is not developing a hybrid version due to slow sales of the existing models. They will however, offer a diesel version in 2 years.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-24-2007, 01:24 PM	#47
kere Private First Class 1 Rep 114 Posts Drives: - Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Finland iTrader: (0)	I wasn't sure about diesels until I drove the 330d. Ok, my previous diesel experience was from the 90's, my friends dad drove an old Mercedes diesel and the only thing I remember was the thick black smoke that filled the air when he started it and the fact that it took something like 30 seconds to accelerate from 0-100 But anyway, over the years I have noticed that I don't really need the performance from 0-100. I need it somewhere around 80-100km/h and that's where diesels are at their best.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-25-2007, 12:14 PM	#48
bum944 Enlisted Member 1 Rep 43 Posts Drives: Join Date: Nov 2006 iTrader: (0)	Here's some more ammo in the diesel vs hybrid discussion (this is from the Car magazine website)..... "Mini today announced it will fit many of the Efficient Dynamics tech already seen on the 1-series to all new hatchbacks fitted with the new PSA engines. The result? A Cooper D will now emit just 104g/km of CO2 - matching the signficantly more expensive Toyota Prius. And average fuel consumption on the diesel climbs to 72.4mpg - around eight miles further than before - to beat even the petrol-electric Prius. Click 'Next' to read all about the technology that makes such impressive figures possible without resorting to complicated hybrid systems." In this case, the diesel tech is as clean as a Prius, gets better fuel economy and cost much less. Oh, and the Prius is a bore to drive.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-25-2007, 04:43 PM	#49
PACIFICONE2003 Private 3 Rep 58 Posts Drives: Join Date: Mar 2007 iTrader: (0)	Bring on the Diesels! I agree with you in regards to the complicated technology of the hybrids.....I would never own one beyond the warranty. Like the Energizer bunny…the diesels keep going keep going keep going….
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-26-2007, 06:17 AM	#50
superlight Enlisted Member 7 Rep 35 Posts Drives: 2003 4runner Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Long Isalnd iTrader: (0)	Do the 6 cylinder engines in the BMW line have this engine cut off, or just the 4 cylinders? This would be a nice boost for the USA if we are just getting the 6 cylinder engines.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-30-2007, 10:59 AM	#51
aesthetect form follows function 38 Rep 838 Posts Drives: GC impreza Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: austin tx iTrader: (0)	actually hybrid powertrains (the mild versions that have been produced up to now, anyway) tend to be more reliable than typical internal combustion engines, but the control systems are complicated. and i belive this was somewhat said but if you are concerned with emissions, diesels are not your friend - but they are getting much better. also hybrids are not inherently slow. the ones in production are because they are striving to achieve MAX fuel efficiency. the concept of a plug in hybrid would allow one to design a powertrain and control system allowing a great balance of power, and very fun to drive. and with respect to all the talk of hybrid vs. new clean and effiecient diesels.. let us all remember that these are both technologies that are just getting going and neither is a final destination. we are a long way away from a transportation/power-machinery solution that will allow us to live in complete ecological balance with our surroundings. and i cannot say that i believe taxation on gas is the solution, but there is certainly a need for more money for R&D and there still remains a substantial need for a large portion of the market to get motivated in this trend. as brett said this is a complex problem and it will have a complex solution.
	Appreciate 0 Quote