Ever want a 1'r 3 door hatchback?

[Billup]

I want one every day of my life.


-1 point for America.

[vertebra]

Having had several GTI's I am biased. If I were to get another hatch it would be a R32. If I could get my hands on a Scirocco...even better!

[BavarianN54]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

It's the same car that is better in every way aside from potentially looks, which are subjective. I don't find the 1 series to be particularly attractive from any position other than behind the wheel. Hatch can also look pretty good when appropriately modded.

I suppose if you want to read into the owner divide you could say 135i owners on average want to be seen(where looks are important), where their 128i counterparts want a good car(everything else).




Buy 4 in the engine/trans spec you want, crash 3 for the Feds.

Seems you took the bait, not I.
You espouse to be some sort of handling aficionado, being a tamed driver and all and rant on endlessly that lightweight, knife like precision is your holy grail and that's why you chose the svelte 128 because it was an ideal handling weapon. I can't seem to find any testing of a 5 door hatch on how it performs( much like the 128's lack of track data) but it seems not to be up to snuff, Saying that you would get rid of your holy grail car that you defend tooth and nail in a NY minute is quite amusing.

I won't speak for other 135 drivers but I will speak for me, I choose this car for several factors, of which how it performs, looks and its compactness were primary considerations. If I need a vehicle with large storage capacity I take my truck. Fortunelty, I don't have to combine all life's vehicular functions into one compromised vehicle.

Interesting that you are quick to say that 135 owners are more interested in looking good and that's why we wouldn't want the ugly hatch but overlook the performance disparity. The stock 135 will run circles around a 130 on the street and track, especially the 5 door abomination.
By the way, your car isn't a 130i or have an s designation nor is it a tii. Calling it or putting stickers on it doesn't make it so, just like the kid with a 318 with M badges, its something to be scoffed.

[vertebra]

Originally Posted by BavarianN54

By the way, your car isn't a 130i or have an s designation nor is it a tii. Calling it or putting stickers on it doesn't make it so, just like the kid with a 318 with M badges, its something to be scoffed.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

It's the same car that is better in every way aside from potentially looks, which are subjective. I don't find the 1 series to be particularly attractive from any position other than behind the wheel. Hatch can also look pretty good when appropriately modded.

I suppose if you want to read into the owner divide you could say 135i owners on average want to be seen(where looks are important), where their 128i counterparts want a good car(everything else).

Buy 4 in the engine/trans spec you want, crash 3 for the Feds.

no actually 135 owners want to drive fast....while 128 owners do not. the end!

but that's fine! different people want different things from their cars! there is no right or wrong....

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

It's the same car that is better in every way aside from potentially looks, which are subjective. I don't find the 1 series to be particularly attractive from any position other than behind the wheel. Hatch can also look pretty good when appropriately modded.

I suppose if you want to read into the owner divide you could say 135i owners on average want to be seen(where looks are important), where their 128i counterparts want a good car(everything else).




Buy 4 in the engine/trans spec you want, crash 3 for the Feds.

That's the thing, I don't buy a car thinking "once I mod it, I'll like it." Even if I didn't mod my 1-er I would still love the car in stock form.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

That's the thing, I don't buy a car thinking "once I mod it, I'll like it." Even if I didn't mod my 1-er I would still love the car in stock form.

exaaaaaaaactly. i've been down that road before in the past, and it's not as great as starting off with a better performing car. I actually bought my car as-is because i did NOT want to 'mod' it. I just wanted something fun and quick out of the box. Small tweaks here and there are fine, IMO----but i don't want to go down the road of modification-addiction like i have in the past.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by BavarianN54

Seems you took the bait, not I.
You espouse to be some sort of handling aficionado, being a tamed driver and all and rant on endlessly that lightweight, knife like precision is your holy grail and that's why you chose the svelte 128 because it was an ideal handling weapon. I can't seem to find any testing of a 5 door hatch on how it performs( much like the 128's lack of track data) but it seems not to be up to snuff, Saying that you would get rid of your holy grail car that you defend tooth and nail in a NY minute is quite amusing.

I won't speak for other 135 drivers but I will speak for me, I choose this car for several factors, of which how it performs, looks and its compactness were primary considerations. If I need a vehicle with large storage capacity I take my truck. Fortunelty, I don't have to combine all life's vehicular functions into one compromised vehicle.

Interesting that you are quick to say that 135 owners are more interested in looking good and that's why we wouldn't want the ugly hatch but overlook the performance disparity. The stock 135 will run circles around a 130 on the street and track, especially the 5 door abomination.
By the way, your car isn't a 130i or have an s designation nor is it a tii. Calling it or putting stickers on it doesn't make it so, just like the kid with a 318 with M badges, its something to be scoffed.

I think you should look up the definition of bait.

If the 135i was available as a hatch, that would be the better performer as it would both weigh less and be more torsionally rigid. I know this might be a little hard for you to grasp as it looks less sporty, but real data is just that.

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

That's the thing, I don't buy a car thinking "once I mod it, I'll like it." Even if I didn't mod my 1-er I would still love the car in stock form.

I can't think of a single car that has ever been made that fits my desires without changes. Outside of cars like the F1, everything is compromised intentionally in one way or another that I find undesirable.

I also just enjoy improving/working on them.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

I think you should look up the definition of bait.

If the 135i was available as a hatch, that would be the better performer as it would both weigh less and be more torsionally rigid. I know this might be a little hard for you to grasp as it looks less sporty, but real data is just that.



I can't think of a single car that has ever been made that fits my desires without changes. Outside of cars like the F1, everything is compromised intentionally in one way or another that I find undesirable.

I also just enjoy improving/working on them.

I think there’s a very small but important distinction here. You like to mod your car because it allows you to make it unique. It’s this customization that makes modding such a fun (and costly) hobby – and that goes the same for me. But I don’t mod this car because I find that it’s lacking in any aspect. That may have been the reason in the past with my other cars but that is why I was so drawn to the E82. I actually thought the 135i/is was perfect ‘as-is’.

Sure there are aspects on the car I’d like to improve upon but I think that’s more the enthusiast/hobbyist side of me talking. Take out the run-flats and I actually believe the car in stock trim meets all my expectations.

Btw I am not against the concept of the 135i hatch, I just don't think the one that came into fruition on the E platform is very nice looking. It just looks very bland imo. I would much prefer an E91 in n54/55 trim.

[BavarianN54]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

I think you should look up the definition of bait.

If the 135i was available as a hatch, that would be the better performer as it would both weigh less and be more torsionally rigid. I know this might be a little hard for you to grasp as it looks less sporty, but real data is .

Bait, I put it in the water and you swallowed it up. Fish on a tight line, nothing more.

Show us the documented data on your rigidity, weight and performance theory and perf numbers showing the supposed improvements on a 128/135.
You like to throw around terms like 50/50 weight distribution and rigididity yet have no proof that any of it amounts to anything even if it were indeed fact. The facts are in the performance numbers, which you conviently always seem to overlook. No surprise there.

So designate your 128 a car its not, and hope one day BMW will bring the 130 to the States(don't hold your breath) then dump your current ride for it. In the mean time, enjoy your faux car you would dump in a minute, given the opportunity. Many of us like our street/ track 135's just fine and not chomping at the bit for a modernized 'station wagon'.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by BavarianN54

Bait, I put it in the water and you swallowed it up. Fish on a tight line, nothing more.

Show us the documented data on your rigidity, weight and performance theory and perf numbers showing the supposed improvements on a 128/135.
You like to throw around terms like 50/50 weight distribution and rigididity yet have no proof that any of it amounts to anything even if it were indeed fact. The facts are in the performance numbers, which you conviently always seem to overlook. No surprise there.

So designate your 128 a car its not, and hope one day BMW will bring the 130 to the States(don't hold your breath) then dump your current ride for it. In the mean time, enjoy your faux car you would dump in a minute, given the opportunity. Many of us like our street/ track 135's just fine and not chomping at the bit for a modernized 'station wagon'.

I like modernized station wagons =(

(not a fan of giant SUV's)

[Solo_M_Tech]

I would buy a 130i hatch or 135i hatch in a heart beat! The engine wouldn't matter since I love wagons. Wrx sti's, Audi estates, bmw estates! I love rwd or awd hatches. Fun to drive and very practical. I fell in love with my 128i and never looked back. Perfect color, right transmission, and a ton of fun to drive. I don't understand why there has to be the devide between 135 and 128 owners. Who cares! 135i has perks and the 128i has perks. Just depends on what you want in YOUR car. Bavarian54 let that crap go. Stig has his points. You have yours. Let's move on.

[BavarianN54]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

I like modernized station wagons =(

(not a fan of giant SUV's)

Would you trade your 135is for one?
If you like em fine by me. Seems the majority of us 135 guys in this thread, anyway don't, me included. Certainly not looking to dump my car for one that may but likely not surpass it perf wise and doesn't look nearly as nice. IMO.

Here seems to be the 0-60 # for the European hi hp version of the magnesium motored wagon. Isn't 6.1 the the usually quoted time for a manuals 128's number?
Yes, we know 0-60 isn't the only thing to look at but very telling indeed.
http://www.mymotorguide.com/car_specification/307.html

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by BavarianN54

Would you trade your 135is for one?
If you like em fine by me. Seems the majority of us 135 guys in this thread, anyway don't, me included. Certainly not looking to dump my car for one that may but likely not surpass it perf wise and doesn't look nearly as nice. IMO.

Here seems to be the 0-60 # for the European hi hp version of the magnesium motored wagon. Isn't 6.1 the the usually quoted time for a manuals 128's number?
Yes, we know 0-60 isn't the only thing to look at but very telling indeed.
http://www.mymotorguide.com/car_specification/307.html

No my point was more between the 1-series hatch and a 3-series wagon, I'd take the latter especially if it was offered in n54/55 trim.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by BavarianN54

Bait, I put it in the water and you swallowed it up. Fish on a tight line, nothing more.

Show us the documented data on your rigidity, weight and performance theory and perf numbers showing the supposed improvements on a 128/135.
You like to throw around terms like 50/50 weight distribution and rigididity yet have no proof that any of it amounts to anything even if it were indeed fact. The facts are in the performance numbers, which you conviently always seem to overlook. No surprise there.

There is no 135i hatch, so the straight numbers clearly aren't present. What we do have is knowledge that the hatch version of the 1 series with comparable models, eg 128i coupe vs 130i hatch, is 70lbs lighter than its coupe counterpart. If for some reason you think that wouldn't carry over for the 135i, feel free to explain.

As far as torsional rigidity is concerned, wagons/hatches historically are always more torsionally rigid than their coupe counterparts. Using the E46 3 series as an example, the coupe had a torsional rigidity of 12,500 Nm/deg(the lowest aside from the vert) while the wagon had a torsional rigidity of 14,000 Nm/deg. A 12% increase is huge, and this is the norm for wagons.

Originally Posted by BavarianN54

So designate your 128 a car its not, and hope one day BMW will bring the 130 to the States(don't hold your breath) then dump your current ride for it. In the mean time, enjoy your faux car you would dump in a minute, given the opportunity. Many of us like our street/ track 135's just fine and not chomping at the bit for a modernized 'station wagon'.

You keep bringing this up as if it is either A. relevent, or B. something I care about.

My car has been upgraded to performance specs beyond the stock 130i, there is nothing pretend about it. I would trade my car for the 5 door hatch, but I don't need the factory to give me a 130i badge to sleep well at night. The 130i sig marking was an effort to make it clear among the 128i community as to who has what done. I wasn't the creator, but it certainly is a useful identifier.

And yes, it is a car, not a child. If I identify something that better suits my needs, it will be chucked. The likelihood of that in today's terrible car market is highly unlikely.

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

I think there’s a very small but important distinction here. You like to mod your car because it allows you to make it unique. It’s this customization that makes modding such a fun (and costly) hobby – and that goes the same for me. But I don’t mod this car because I find that it’s lacking in any aspect. That may have been the reason in the past with my other cars but that is why I was so drawn to the E82. I actually thought the 135i/is was perfect ‘as-is’.

I don't care about being unique, which should be evident in how much I try to shape the 128i community in a similar way. At this point there are quite a few clones of my car running about, which I find to be completely awesome. Hopefully someone will find out how to take it even further with the same mindset, and I can follow them.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

My car has been upgraded to performance specs beyond the stock 130i, there is nothing pretend about it. I would trade my car for the 5 door hatch, but I don't need the factory to give me a 130i badge to sleep well at night. The 130i sig marking was an effort to make it clear among the 128i community as to who has what done. I wasn't the creator, but it certainly is a useful identifier.

i really like you, man.....but your car is still a 128i. sorry!

you can put a 175i badge on it, if you want.....but it's still a 128i!

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

i really like you, man.....but your car is still a 128i. sorry!

you can put a 175i badge on it, if you want.....but it's still a 128i!

I'm not claiming it is anything but a 128i. It doesn't have a physical 130i badge on it in any form.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

I'm not claiming it is anything but a 128i. It doesn't have a physical 130i badge on it in any form.

if you've modified your car, you should be PROUD of the 128 badge....rather than run from it and change it to a "130is" in your sig. The problem is that the 130i is a car that DOES exist....so it doesn't make a lot of sense to those who know this.

all that being said.....i am now fascinated by the idea of making a "195is" badge just to troll the crap out of everyone!

[BavarianN54]

No, there aren't numbers for you to draw rigidity conclusions on the current cars. Using the last generation of BMW's isn't relevant either. You always seem to pull up irrelevant points to make an argument.
70 lbs! That normally equates to less than a tenth in 0-60 and 1/4 mild times. What does all that get you? Not much according to BMW's own projected numbers for the 130, same as the less powerful, heavier 128. Bravo! You got a real burner there.

Just like telling telling the kid with the an M badged( or calling it an M)318 his badge is childish, he's gonna say f u dude. I expected the same response from you, and got it. No surprise there either.

[Solo_M_Tech]

Originally Posted by BavarianN54

No, there aren't numbers for you to draw rigidity conclusions on the current cars. Using the last generation of BMW's isn't relevant either. You always seem to pull up irrelevant points to make an argument.
70 lbs! That normally equates to less than a tenth in 0-60 and 1/4 mild times. What does all that get you? Not much according to BMW's own projected numbers for the 130, same as the less powerful, heavier 128. Bravo! You got a real burner there.

Just like telling telling the kid with the an M badged( or calling it an M)318 his badge is childish, he's gonna say f u dude. I expected the same response from you, and got it. No surprise there either.

Come on. Really. Who cares. Here you are trying to prove a point just to argue with another forum member. You continually instigate crap on this forum. If you want to make a valid point don't insult others. Making comments like " Just like telling telling the kid with the an M badged( or calling it an M)318 his badge is childish, he's gonna say f u dude. I expected the same response from you, and got it. No surprise there either. " is disrespectful. Let it go man.

[BavarianN54]

I made an innocent observation of members who said would sell their cars and who wouldn't. He felt the need to insult 135 owners in his next post. It's that simple.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

if you've modified your car, you should be PROUD of the 128 badge....rather than run from it and change it to a "130is" in your sig. The problem is that the 130i is a car that DOES exist....so it doesn't make a lot of sense to those who know this.

all that being said.....i am now fascinated by the idea of making a "195is" badge just to troll the crap out of everyone!

I don't care about badge to begin with. As I said before, the 130i tag is used by the 128i community to identify who have done the DISA conversion. There is no real confusion as the forum is 99% US spec cars. If this was BabyBMW I could see the problem.

Originally Posted by BavarianN54

No, there aren't numbers for you to draw rigidity conclusions on the current cars. Using the last generation of BMW's isn't relevant either. You always seem to pull up irrelevant points to make an argument. .

So to be clear, we are throwing out all historical data from BMW on the subject, because you say so? You seem to have a hard enough time even spelling, so pardon me if I choose to ignore your thoughts on the subject.