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      12-12-2010, 03:40 PM   #45
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Not what I meant at all and you know it. Im saying that theyre both great car built for different purposes. But the M3 has grown up and its heavy for a sports car...which it isnt anymore. Its a very very capable GT.

The 1M sorta bridges the gap between the Z4MC sports car and the M3 GT. Its in an odd niche but its a bit uninformed to say that the 1M could only beat it at an autox.

The 1M and the M3 are equals as far as im concerned. They are in the same league, just towards different ends of the spectrum. Its like the M3 is blue and the 1M is red. Both are visible light and we love to see them both, but they are different colors.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 330CIZHP View Post
AutoBahn cruiser? That is the terminology used for Rolls Royce, Mercs and Audi A6 and A8s. Great way to marginalize M3's substantially superior handling capabilities.

The only place where 1-M can give problems to the M3 is in a very small tight autoX circuit where the short wheelbase of the 1-M will be an advantage. In a track with high speed turns like Nordchliefe, M3 destroys the 1-M as apparent in their official lap times.

1-M is for people who want a little more than the 135 sport. M3 is in a different league so you guys better stop comparing it to the M3.
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      12-12-2010, 03:41 PM   #46
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thats a very respectable time. and no limp modes while testing! thats always helpful.

for 45k though, there are cars with more potential.
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      12-12-2010, 04:00 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
Keep in mind that the M3 time was from a 2008 without the newest DCT software and no competition pkg. The newest DCT software has made the M3 faster.
That was the red E92 M3 equipped with manul tranny (6MT), 18" wheels and Cup tires.
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      12-12-2010, 04:01 PM   #48
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What I want to really see is a comparison of a 135i on non-RFTs and a simple tune....you can throw in some basic suspension mods too to make it interesting.
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      12-12-2010, 04:02 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKumarM3 View Post
thats a very respectable time. and no limp modes while testing! thats always helpful.

for 45k though, there are cars with more potential.
I like how you Americans are like pfft, 45k, plenty of other cars to choose from =(

You can barely buy a 128i w/ 45k here =( And our currency is almost 1 to 1. I'm thinking of moving to the States.
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      12-12-2010, 04:03 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKumarM3 View Post
thats a very respectable time. and no limp modes while testing! thats always helpful.

for 45k though, there are cars with more potential.
What premium brands at this price range have more potential?
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      12-12-2010, 04:05 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rca06Mcoupe View Post
I remember from the initial testing (Cayman vs Z4M Coupe comparisons) reviewers citing Cayman probably had advantage with Advanced Michelins.
Z4M Coupe was shipped with Conti's (as a cost saving measure?) So, maybe Z4M Coupe bests 8:12 with the better tires??
Having had both the Conti (which suck big time) vs. Dunlop Star Specs (which are fantastic) on the Z4M I can say unequivocally the Z4M would have been faster with better tires (PS2s). The Contis were awful.

The Z4M comes with a less-than-optimal front camber settings (about .-5, and you can get ~ -1.0 w/o modifications). The Cayman S, even with PASM, can only get to around ~-1.0 in front as well if you push it (coming from the factory with about -.5).

If the 1M is running M3 suspension parts (IIRC it is), it's probably set around -1 up front (stock for the M3). The M3's suspension design requires much less aggressive camber settings given the suspension design/geometry most cars would need a lot more negative camber to achieve (the suspension design is fantastic). I'll bet it's damn fun in regard to handling as the M3's suspension set-up was damn good (just too large and heavy a car IMO). And, I'd also bet it's also running PS2s or better.

Bottom line, tires (and the range of available camber settings available stock and factory defaults) make a huge difference. Three years in terms of tire technology makes a big difference.

The 1M is a great effort (aside from the engine) and there's lots to like here--especially the focus on weight reduction and eschewing of excess luxury. We get a fantastic suspension, LSD, room for 2 children, or a dog, or some excess luggage in the back. It's a move in the right direction (again, engine aside) as lighter (IMO) is more fun, more agile, and better. Give me something Cayman S like in handling and weight plus room for my dog in the back with an engine that's M-worthy and I might be back looking at BMWs again.

Slap a variable geometry turbo design in there (an "S" turbo motor if you will) to allow it to run like a bat out of hell to redline (S65 engine dynamics) and wow, that would be something. I like the lighter and smaller direction--more E30 M3 like--which is great. We just need a powerplant that is M-worthy to go along with it. Are there any rumors of the next series of M cars using variable geometry turbos? That would be a way to provide the flat torque curve and top-end performance and dynamics people are so passionate about.

Last edited by Finnegan; 12-12-2010 at 04:14 PM..
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      12-12-2010, 04:15 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madozu View Post
Just found 8:39 on FastestLaps, but no indication about driver, therefore hard to compare ...
That time seems very slow to me, especially compared to the E46 M3, which was 17 seconds faster. In my experience, the E46 M3 and 135i are very similar in performance when compared stock v stock and similar tires.

At 8:39, I would guess there was a lot of time left on the track.
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      12-12-2010, 04:26 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
What premium brands at this price range have more potential?
None. I'm sure he was referring to a GT500/used M5/really high mileage 911 etc etc
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      12-12-2010, 04:31 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pride355 View Post
That was the red E92 M3 equipped with manul tranny (6MT), 18" wheels and Cup tires.
Yes - this was one of the early E92 M3s that Sport Auto tested in their famous Supertest.

But ChrisKs comment was very important!

With the arrival of the competition package and the DCT completely new dimensions in terms of dynamics/speed for the E92 M3 came up.

In the latest comparison with the Audi RS5 the M3 with DCT + competition package did the same laptime with normal tyres on the Hockenheimring as the 2007 M3 in the Supertest with semi slick tyres. Insiders know what this means -> that would translate to a speedgain of more than one second at Hockenheimring if the 2010 M3 DCT/Competition had been also equippped with semislicks.
So if Horst Saurma (Supertest driver of SportAuto) would redo the Nordschleife tracktest with an 2010 DCT M3 with comp package it would for sure run in under 8 minutes.
And this would leave a not so small gap to the 1M
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      12-12-2010, 05:00 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodRed3 View Post
If the new 2011 Subaru sti sedan can run the Ring in 7:55, then how is the 1M and M3 so much slower?
Dude, the STi was a non production test car specifically setup to run on the ring with a high output engine and many other non production parts. This test car cannot be purchased. The current 2011 Production Sti will not run this fast.
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      12-12-2010, 05:52 PM   #56
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I also thought I would post this photo I took at Essen Motor Show. This is Manhart Racing's e46 M3 CSL record car.





Who will be the first //1M owner with a 'Ring paint job like this?


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      12-12-2010, 06:32 PM   #57
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cool stuff that a z4m can run 8:12. SIGH must attend some track days next year so i can do the car justice.

The results of the 1m is not surprising, it has m3 suspension, differential, the phenomenal n54 with additional oil coolers. The package itself should easily explain the time the car obtained.
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      12-12-2010, 06:44 PM   #58
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All of the cars are putting down fairly close times when especially considering the variables that we dont that would impact engine performance and mechanical grip.

Only a few seconds off on a 8 min lap...that is pretty small, less than 1% difference in lap time between the M3 and 1M. F1 cars have larger time deltas between first and last, on a much shorter course. But, can we really compare Red bull Renault to Lotus??

I am impressed that these cars are all as close as they are.
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      12-12-2010, 06:52 PM   #59
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C6 vette ran it under 8 minutes before the power bump according the Fastest Laps.

I think the 1M time is very disappointing.
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      12-12-2010, 06:55 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j03chu View Post
cool stuff that a z4m can run 8:12. SIGH must attend some track days next year so i can do the car justice.

The results of the 1m is not surprising, it has m3 suspension, differential, the phenomenal n54 with additional oil coolers. The package itself should easily explain the time the car obtained.
WHO said the //1M has extra oil cooler?

I thought the //1M only has the BMW Performance Power Kit (PPK) extra (engine coolant) radiator in the driver's side fender and the larger radiator fan for main radiator. ???


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      12-12-2010, 07:18 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oasis3582 View Post
C6 vette ran it under 8 minutes before the power bump according the Fastest Laps.

I think the 1M time is very disappointing.
VERY? What were you expecting? Mid 7 minutes? It is substantially faster than the 135i around the track. I guess people want everything out of a car.
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      12-12-2010, 07:19 PM   #62
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Why is the boatish 6 series faster then the 1er which is supposed to be pure adrenaline?
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An engine from a Z06 Corvette. A differential from a Vespa. Damn

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Its because a lot of BMW owners are housewives or business professionals and know little about cars other than BMW's are a status symbol in their own circles so that have to have one. But exotic car owners know cars, that's why they are willing to spend for a killer car and they know something different when they see one.
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      12-12-2010, 07:39 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by mtla4 View Post
Why is the boatish 6 series faster then the 1er which is supposed to be pure adrenaline?
V10
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      12-12-2010, 08:00 PM   #64
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Garage List
2008 135i  [10.00]
I have YET to see any publication put out an semi-official laptime of the regular 135i....so seeing the 1M's laptimes mean almost nothing to me.....Lets see a AC Schnitzer (or pick your tuner) equipped 135i run the ring and then compare it to the 1M.
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      12-12-2010, 08:30 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrean8j View Post
I have YET to see any publication put out an semi-official laptime of the regular 135i....so seeing the 1M's laptimes mean almost nothing to me.....Lets see a AC Schnitzer (or pick your tuner) equipped 135i run the ring and then compare it to the 1M.
I didn't think it even needed to be posted. But since SO many people here think that their 135i is the shit and the 1M is only marginally better. Here are more lap times from the top 255 list

Nordschleife
7:48.00 e92 M3 GTS ('10)
7:50.00 e46 M3 CSL ('03)
8:05.00 e92 M3 ('07)
8:07.76 M6 ('05)
8:12.00 Z4 M Coupe ('06)
8:13.00 e60 M5 ('05)
8:16.52 M6 Cabrio ('07)
8:18.00 Z8 ('00)
8:22.00 e46 M3 ('00)
8:22.00 Z3 M Coupe ('99)
8:24.00 X6 M ('09)
8:26.00 335i Coupe ('07)
8:28.00 E39 M5 ('98)
8:39.20 135i ('07)

*note* the lap time for Z8 I included above was driven by sport auto, who drove majority of the other lap times I included, but there was another
Z8 ('00) that did 8:07:00
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      12-12-2010, 08:31 PM   #66
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I must say, the 135i surprised the hell out of me, since the 335i is 8:26.00
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