1///M Reality Check

[HBspeed]

Originally Posted by BMW86

I know what you're saying.

Here's another thought, try and be open-minded and imagine if the E92 M3 somehow transported back in time to the days of the E30 M3. Which one would everyone pick? It's very obvious. It's not even a real question. You could imagine the looks on those peoples faces from that era if they saw an E92 M3 cruising around town. It would be hailed a supercar!!

The M cars have all been great in their own era and still have a place in the market today which is generally reflected in their value and price in todays market. I think it's almost offensive to think that such older generation M cars are being compared to the M cars being offered today... The latest and current M3 is a masterpiece and I expect it's successor to be even better.

I know certain cars have a soft spot in our hearts but imagine yourself in any scenario, on the race-track, driving around town, commuting home from work... E36 M3 or E92 M3? Which one? Anyone that goes for the former clearly has a soft spot for this car and holds sentimental value for it. I'm in no way putting down any of the former cars, just showing great respect for the advancements and improvements that have been made. If it wasn't for the past, we wouldn't be at where we are today. BMW have been at the top of the game with the M cars for some time now and every M has been a hit in it's own era.

The 1M is going to take the 135i to a whole new level and will be worthy of the M badge IMHO.

While I agree each M3 is great for its own era, what an M3 is has changed over time.

The first M3 was an homologation model and thus was a very focused sports car. Then each subsequent model got larger, heavier, and less focused.

What has happened is the M3 has evolved so far away from what the original was that it has essentially become the original M6 in the analogy of the E30 M3 to the E24 M6. Therefore you have

E30 M3 : E24 M6 :: E82 1M : E92 M3

There is a huge gap in the market BMW has been creating by their own excesses and the demands of overweight luxury car enthusiasts who want M cars. They have been slowly abandoning the small sporty sedan/coupe market with each passing generation until they finally had gone so far over the edge with the 3 series that they had to create the 1 series to try and recapture the market they had left behind.

Not that there is anything wrong with the E92 M6 which is great for what it is

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by HBspeed

While I agree each M3 is great for its own era, what an M3 is has changed over time.

The first M3 was an homologation model and thus was a very focused sports car. Then each subsequent model got larger, heavier, and less focused.

What has happened is the M3 has evolved so far away from what the original was that it has essentially become the original M6 in the analogy of the E30 M3 to the E24 M6. Therefore you have

E30 M3 : E24 M6 :: E82 1M : E92 M3

There is a huge gap in the market BMW has been creating by their own excesses and the demands of overweight luxury car enthusiasts who want M cars. They have been slowly abandoning the small sporty sedan/coupe market with each passing generation until they finally had gone so far over the edge with the 3 series that they had to create the 1 series to try and recapture the market they had left behind.

Not that there is anything wrong with the E92 M6 which is great for what it is

I'm completely in agreement with you there. It seems like the trend from every manufacture is bigger is better and in some ways it can be seen as "getting more car for your money". That's why I think the 1 series will become a hit. For those that want a successor to the original M3's and what they offered in a small compact sports, the 1M will bring to the table. I personally see all M models on the same platform. I don't see a M3 being anything less than an M5, it just comes down to size preference for me. Pumping out more horsepower will only balance out the power/weight ratio. The 1 series and Z series size appeals to me although I think every M model looks fantastic. I can see myself growing into an M3 or possibly jumping to an M5 some day if it is feasible for me.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by HBspeed

While I agree each M3 is great for its own era, what an M3 is has changed over time.

The first M3 was an homologation model and thus was a very focused sports car. Then each subsequent model got larger, heavier, and less focused.

What has happened is the M3 has evolved so far away from what the original was that it has essentially become the original M6 in the analogy of the E30 M3 to the E24 M6. Therefore you have

E30 M3 : E24 M6 :: E82 1M : E92 M3

There is a huge gap in the market BMW has been creating by their own excesses and the demands of overweight luxury car enthusiasts who want M cars. They have been slowly abandoning the small sporty sedan/coupe market with each passing generation until they finally had gone so far over the edge with the 3 series that they had to create the 1 series to try and recapture the market they had left behind.

Not that there is anything wrong with the E92 M6 which is great for what it is

There's no denying this, but you can't omit the fact that every M3 successor is a better performer in pretty much every aspect than the previous incarnation.

The fact is, it's not just BMW's that are getting larger, heavier, and stuffed with more technology. Almost every car on the market today that's been around for 20-30 years have gone through the same evolution. Porsche 911's have gained well over 1000 lbs since the 70's. They are much bigger and more high tech as well.

If BMW kept making E30 M3's, they'd be out of business a long time ago. Hardcore enthusiasts are a very small minority and could never keep the company alive today. It's a sad truth.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

There's no denying this, but you can't omit the fact that every M3 successor is a better performer in pretty much every aspect than the previous incarnation.

The fact is, it's not just BMW's that are getting larger, heavier, and stuffed with more technology. Almost every car on the market today that's been around for 20-30 years have gone through the same evolution. Porsche 911's have gained well over 1000 lbs since the 70's. They are much bigger and more high tech as well.

If BMW kept making E30 M3's, they'd be out of business a long time ago. Hardcore enthusiasts are a very small minority and could never keep the company alive today. It's a sad truth.

[HBspeed]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

There's no denying this, but you can't omit the fact that every M3 successor is a better performer in pretty much every aspect than the previous incarnation.

The fact is, it's not just BMW's that are getting larger, heavier, and stuffed with more technology. Almost every car on the market today that's been around for 20-30 years have gone through the same evolution. Porsche 911's have gained well over 1000 lbs since the 70's. They are much bigger and more high tech as well.

If BMW kept making E30 M3's, they'd be out of business a long time ago. Hardcore enthusiasts are a very small minority and could never keep the company alive today. It's a sad truth.

That would be why I own a '75 911 S thats gutted with a half cage.

[///Mangler]

The number one attribute of the ///M moniker is the engine. Every single ///M car has had the most advanced engine engineered to that date, and the chassis it gets selected for is engineered around the power plant. This 1M will not be different, it will be a new bleeding edge engine (even if derived from another) with a special chassis designed around it.

Again, I have driven and or ridden around the street/track with almost every ///M car (not suv) ever built with exception of the CSL. It's all about the power plant and how it delivers the power for MOMENTUM driving. Thus it needs a superb chassis with balance to carry this momentum with speed. ///M does not build point and shoot packages, they build Ultimate Driving Machines.

T

[niuniu]

Originally Posted by sparoz

I think we have to pull back a bit and think about what the car is going to be like irrespective of our initial wish list.

At the end of the day, we know the 135i is a very capable car to start off with and power was never an issue, and make lag less and the power and torque even more usable will make it better.

What it lacked was a good track, suspension, and lack of LSD. We know BMW is going to achieve that.

Even if there's no CF hood, although I seems to think it's confirmed now, Scott has mentioned numerous times that making it light is important so we should expect a car that should have similar weight to the 135i.

It is disappointing with the colour choice and no DCT, but at the end of the day this car will fly compare to the 135i, and probably more enjoyable than the current M3.

Sometimes, we will just have to sit back and look at the facts that, it is still shaping to be one of the hottest car in the BMW lineup.

I personally would like to have my luxury with the car, as that is how I remembered the M3. A great DD that you can have great fun with. Seriously if we want a strip down version, I think it should be a separate line the M3 GTR where they will charge more, but warrant track use.

So, that's my 2 cents, and we should look forward to another piece coming off at Paris.

Nice post, balanced perspective. Will be a cracking little car, and will mark the way for an even better gen 2 1M in which pretty much everyone will get the options and model choices they want - DCT/vert/colours/trims etc. Can't wait to see where the 1M will be by 2018! And we should all be alive and healthy lets hope to enjoy it.

Going to be an interesting journey!

[ORIGIN M.]

The Gen2 1M will be out way sooner than that.

Originally Posted by niuniu

...Can't wait to see where the 1M will be by 2018! And we should all be alive and healthy lets hope to enjoy it.

Going to be an interesting journey!

[sparoz]

Originally Posted by RPM90

But, it's not I that wants pure luxury. I was addressing your point, that you want the 1M as a sporty "luxury" vehicle.
So I ask, what's so luxury about it?...

... The thing I'm getting at is, what is "luxury" in the 1, in the first place?

You were actually address a word that I used, but not the point in the context. Please re read my OP in how the word 'luxury' was used in that context, if you want I can change it to 'prestige'. I have not and I am not going to compare it to any other make as it's not in the context of my OP.

The last three generations of ///M3 has items that you would expect from a 'prestige' vehicle, irrespect to how it compare other makes or other cars etc. I am talking about the philosophy of ///M since the ///M5, which is combining a car you can drive while wearing a business suit, or a racing suit (not exactly, but so to speak). It is as practical as and have the same more better equipment/quality levels than the donar cars, but with much better performance. That's how it's been marketed for the past twenty years and that's what I love about ///M. Otherwise, I could have easily go for a lotus if I am just after a fun car with performance.

Originally Posted by BMW86

I know what you're saying.

Here's another thought, try and be open-minded and imagine if the E92 M3 somehow transported back in time to the days of the E30 M3. Which one would everyone pick? It's very obvious. It's not even a real question. You could imagine the looks on those peoples faces from that era if they saw an E92 M3 cruising around town. It would be hailed a supercar!!

The M cars have all been great in their own era and still have a place in the market today which is generally reflected in their value and price in todays market. I think it's almost offensive to think that such older generation M cars are being compared to the M cars being offered today... The latest and current M3 is a masterpiece and I expect it's successor to be even better.

I know certain cars have a soft spot in our hearts but imagine yourself in any scenario, on the race-track, driving around town, commuting home from work... E36 M3 or E92 M3? Which one? Anyone that goes for the former clearly has a soft spot for this car and holds sentimental value for it. I'm in no way putting down any of the former cars, just showing great respect for the advancements and improvements that have been made. If it wasn't for the past, we wouldn't be at where we are today. BMW have been at the top of the game with the M cars for some time now and every M has been a hit in it's own era.

The 1M is going to take the 135i to a whole new level and will be worthy of the M badge IMHO.

This ^ +1

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

The Gen2 1M will be out way sooner than that.

I think it would be out 1-2 years into the model year, ie around 2014, F21 and F27 should be out by 2012, F22 2013, making it the new F22 ///M around 2014.

@niuniu Thank you! In summary, what I was trying to say in the OP was if we didn't know any specs to begin with, we would have thought the 1///M would be a great car, putting aside the lack of DCT, limited numbers and colour choices. If the F22 is meeting the hype - more power with a 4banger turbo, it is going to be a fantastic car.

[niuniu]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

The Gen2 1M will be out way sooner than that.

Oh yes, 2014 - been confirmed by Scott already, the way I skipped between gen 2 and that date was confusing. I was just thinking further ahead! If Segler sticks to his word and focuses on saving weight - the model around 2018 could have the same status as the M3 does in it's segment. Really well developed and a better drive than any rival. We have a lot to look forward to!

[PrimoM3]

Originally Posted by niuniu

Oh yes, 2014 - been confirmed by Scott already, the way I skipped between gen 2 and that date was confusing. I was just thinking further ahead! If Segler sticks to his word and focuses on saving weight - the model around 2018 could have the same status as the M3 does in it's segment. Really well developed and a better drive than any rival. We have a lot to look forward to!

Dude, I'm getting a flying car in 2018, not a 1M. That's a long wait for greatness.