Tyres - Thoughts on replacing Michelin PSS

[PeteA]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

The RS3's run very square.

On track the RS3's are in a different league to PSS etc. The increased turn-in and consistant grip over a session is outstanding for a non-R tyre.

If I didn't track the car though I'd go back to PSS, or probably give RE-11's a try. The RS3's are a hard ride and I'm sure they will get noisier as they wear.

Further to Ians comments (I agree with them all). The RS3's feel pretty darn comfy to me! Maybe because the sidewalls on a set of 235/40 - 265/35 18's are so phat.

[PeteA]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

Yeah Pete, strange you don't find them hard as profiles pretty much the same. May be the harder 1M suspension. It is worth living with though

I'll admit my car is a bitch over those squared speed bumps made of metal but that's not the tyres. Everywhere else it's very compliant, even on coil overs with significant spring rates.

Must be the junk in the trunk adding to dampening properties.....or the karting. I'm used to coming out bruised from a drive. Short of that = comfy.

[Alext]

I have Continental Contisport 5 on my C250 coupe w AMG suspension and it handles SUPRISINGLY well in sport mode. In normal mode it is a luxurious ride. I actually feel it handles better in a lot of respects than my 08' 135i on RFTs and of course rides a lot smoother too. What's most impressive is the total lack of rattles etc (so far!). The only thing I criticise is the over assisted steering but you get used to it as the car still feels nimble and precise enough for its size.

[dtcoff]

RS3 has treadwear index 140 compared to PSS 300, so basically PSS "should" last twice as long.

Interestingly RS3 only has a A Traction rating though. PSS is AA.

[timbo_3101]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

No way the PSS has better traction than the RS3.

Originally Posted by dtcoff

RS3 has treadwear index 140 compared to PSS 300, so basically PSS "should" last twice as long.

Interestingly RS3 only has a A Traction rating though. PSS is AA.

http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Shop...ating#traction
... for definitions and other "discrepancies".

Although R-S3 may be able to withstand 1.2 or 1.3 lateral G in the dry, there are multiple reports of comparatively poor performance under wet conditions ie superior and inferior to PSS depending on circumstances. Ask Jeff/1M about this

How often do official specifications reflect real world comparisons or extreme applications?
Hence the value of collecting and evaluating one's own data.

[UsualSuspect]

Originally Posted by dz89

Hi all,

Firstly - Although this is a tyre based topic, I've posted in the Aus section to obtain feedback on tyres here in Australia based on our market, conditions, pricing etc.

I need to change the rears on a 135, currently fitted with Michelin PSS.
These were a fantastic tyre however I cannot justify the price tag for such a small amount of usage; 7,000km I achieved from the current set. I don't drive like an idiot - burnouts etc. but do drive 'spiritedly'.

I am therefore looking for tyres that I can get some more mileage from and aren't too expensive but are still a good grippy item. The car is street only no motorsport.

Presently I'm steering towards Falken FK453s; has anyone used these? I didn't have much joy searching for topics on these particular tyres on this site...
I can get rears fitted for $320 each.

What other avenues have you gone down and at what cost?
Are there any others to consider?

Get them. I'm ordering some as well. I too currently have PSSs. One of my close buddies who's a has a supercharged E92 M3 bought some FK453s. I drove the car with the PSSs and then when he got the Falkens and on & off the track they're stickier! I didn't get to test them in the wet but they convinced me to go that route when my PSSs are gone. And now they're almost gone.

[135]

Originally Posted by PeteA

Check out my build thread and all your questions will be answered.

But, to be short:
1. About 3.5mm inside, bit more outside.
2. Yes
3. Square
4. No, not against other extreme performance tyres

Thanks. Not a lot of room but at least it clears.

[135]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

The RS3's run very square.

On track the RS3's are in a different league to PSS etc. The increased turn-in and consistant grip over a session is outstanding for a non-R tyre.

If I didn't track the car though I'd go back to PSS, or probably give RE-11's a try. The RS3's are a hard ride and I'm sure they will get noisier as they wear.

So, would you rate the RS-3 as a better tyre than the RE-11?
Since they're both in the Extreme Performancd tyre category and based on some track reviews that I've read, I would have lent the other way., although it would be very close - not to mention the NT05 and AD08 being on par too.
Bridgestone recently released the new RE-11A but I've only found suitable sizes on the Japan website. Yokohama have also released their AD08R (superseding the AD08). Both of these are supposed to be (and are, according to track reviews, albeit, probably slightly biased) superior to their predecessors.
I currently have RE-11 but am undecided as to whether I'll just run one set of wheels with a DOT track tyre for street/track or my OE wheels on the street and my other set of wheels with semi-slicks/slicks for track use. Too many options

[BMW86]

I've gone through about 4-5 sets of RE-11 and on my 3rd set of PSS.

I used to daily the RE-11 until the PSS came out. Now I use the RE-11 exclusively for track use.

The PSS is a better street tyre all year round as it performs better than the RE-11 in the wet. But when it's wet on the street I find myself punting around on stock boost anyway.

The RE-11 grips better than the PSS in dry conditions. But the difference is only noticeable when pushing them to the limit.

PSS is comfortable and quieter than the RE-11 too.

I haven't used any other tyre on the 135i and probably won't. These 2 are the best in their respective categories for a reason and always get what you pay for.

IMHO if you track go with RE-11 but if it's a daily go with PSS.

[135]

Originally Posted by BMW86

I've gone through about 4-5 sets of RE-11 and on my 3rd set of PSS.

I used to daily the RE-11 until the PSS came out. Now I use the RE-11 exclusively for track use.

The PSS is a better street tyre all year round as it performs better than the RE-11 in the wet. But when it's wet on the street I find myself punting around on stock boost anyway.

The RE-11 grips better than the PSS in dry conditions. But the difference is only noticeable when pushing them to the limit.

PSS is comfortable and quieter than the RE-11 too.

I haven't used any other tyre on the 135i and probably won't. These 2 are the best in their respective categories for a reason and always get what you pay for.

IMHO if you track go with RE-11 but if it's a daily go with PSS.

Thanks - that's a great comparison over a lengthy period which equals valuable data. For those reasons, particularly putting around in the wet as I also do, I'd be more inclined to stick with the RE-11 (or something better) as a street/track tyre - I'm happy with a few trade-offs. I've read too many PSS track horror stories to go the other way. But the PSS is always highly rated as a street-only tyre.
If I ran two sets of wheels, it would probably be something like the PSS on the street (although RE-11, AD08R, etc, would still be tempting - I can't help myself ). The only issue with two sets of wheels is that there isn't much room in a 135i to transport the second set to the track.

[135]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

Well I am trying to not have 2 sets of wheels, hense the RS3's for both street and track. Then again I just do track days for some fun, not too serious.

RE11's would just be to try something different, as better in the wet and better road manners than the RS3 . How do you find them on the street?

In my opinion, the RE-11 is great on the street (dry and wet) but I don't have any experience with other tyres on the 135i so can't make any comparisons. On past cars, I've also run tyres equivalent to the RE-11 on the street and haven't had any problems but I also drive to the conditions. The RE-11 is also very capable on track but start to go off towards the end of the day, although that may just be due to the rear tyres needing replacing soon. Thus my current dilemma

[timbo_3101]

Originally Posted by 135

I currently have RE-11 but am undecided as to whether I'll just run one set of wheels with a DOT track tyre for street/track or my OE wheels on the street and my other set of wheels with semi-slicks/slicks for track use. Too many options

If you have more than one set of wheels, and you will (or intend to) explore limits on circuit, then you are certainly in an envious position

A second set of wheels allows:
(a) Traction ie street (wet weather) tyres and competition grade tyres.
(b) Preservation of tread, which may become relevant as competition tyres (and associated equipment) increase operating expenses.
(c) Safety ie on public roads, drivers can readily exceed the limits of tyre traction in the wet, but cannot readily exceed the limits of tyre traction in dry conditions.
(d) Rescue ie punctures.

If this is the case, it seems like your decision making will be based around:
(a) Which set of wheels to allocate (dimensions).
(b) Choice of tyres.

Others have already posted excellent information; hope it works out for you

[Nugget]

I've daily driven AD08s and now AD08R for nearly 18 months.
I got a year, 10,000kms and about 10 track days out of my first set.
Great dual purpose tyre.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by 135

Thanks - that's a great comparison over a lengthy period which equals valuable data. For those reasons, particularly putting around in the wet as I also do, I'd be more inclined to stick with the RE-11 (or something better) as a street/track tyre - I'm happy with a few trade-offs. I've read too many PSS track horror stories to go the other way. But the PSS is always highly rated as a street-only tyre.
If I ran two sets of wheels, it would probably be something like the PSS on the street (although RE-11, AD08R, etc, would still be tempting - I can't help myself ). The only issue with two sets of wheels is that there isn't much room in a 135i to transport the second set to the track.

I change my wheels/tyres before I go to the track. The RE-11's go on before I head out. Sometimes they stay on for a day or two after I get back if I don't have time to change to PSS.

[Nugget]

Not to me, your opinion may be differ.

[PeteA]

^ Spot on.

I'm the same with regards to RS3's. FOR ME they are quiet and don't tram-line. I guess compared to the 16" Michelins green fuel savers I have on my verada they are, but not for a car of spec we are looking to have.

RS3 sits square, looks meaty as ^&*# and grips fantastically.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...0/198/fm96.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...0/546/6jqi.jpg

One thing that is a constant is their weight. They are a heavy tyre but this probably attributed to why it has such excellent turn in.

[135]

Originally Posted by timbo_3101

If you have more than one set of wheels, and you will (or intend to) explore limits on circuit, then you are certainly in an envious position

A second set of wheels allows:
(a) Traction ie street (wet weather) tyres and competition grade tyres.
(b) Preservation of tread, which may become relevant as competition tyres (and associated equipment) increase operating expenses.
(c) Safety ie on public roads, drivers can readily exceed the limits of tyre traction in the wet, but cannot readily exceed the limits of tyre traction in dry conditions.
(d) Rescue ie punctures.

If this is the case, it seems like your decision making will be based around:
(a) Which set of wheels to allocate (dimensions).
(b) Choice of tyres.

Others have already posted excellent information; hope it works out for you

I'm currently building up a list of slicks, semis and street tyres so I can make a decision, although, I'd categorise RE-11, AD08R, RS-3, etc as street tyres - even though they can also be used on the track. Something is going to win out - I'm wondering if it's going to be commonsense.

[135]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

From experience, PSS will not handle more than 5 laps the track before overheating. RS3's are fine all day at the track and turn-in is exceptional, as is predictable & constant level of grip . No experience with RE11's.

What mileage you getting from RE11's?

My only gripe about RS3's is the harsh ride on street, They also tramline. I can live with these cons as the pros out weigh them

The RE-11s went on mid-2011 (tyre manufacture dates: 8-9th week 11th year) and, based on the average kms to-date, they would have done 23-28K kms. Yes, that seems very high to me, but that's how the numbers work out. No wonder the rears are due for replacement! Although the fronts still have quite a lot of tread - maybe 50%?

[135]

Originally Posted by BMW86

I change my wheels/tyres before I go to the track. The RE-11's go on before I head out. Sometimes they stay on for a day or two after I get back if I don't have time to change to PSS.

This could still be an option with DOT semis for track duty and RE-11 (or similar) for the street.

[135]

Here's something interesting...

Nitto is a brand division of Toyo Tire (USA) Corp!

http://www.toyojapan.com/cgi-bin/col...119852599.html
http://www.toyo-rubber.co.jp/english...ny/enkaku.html
http://toyotires.com.au/news-media/2...-tyre-corp-ltd

So R888 and NT01 may share the same DNA.

[froop]

Originally Posted by 135

Here's something interesting...

Nitto is a brand division of Toyo Tire (USA) Corp!

http://www.toyojapan.com/cgi-bin/col...119852599.html
http://www.toyo-rubber.co.jp/english...ny/enkaku.html
http://toyotires.com.au/news-media/2...-tyre-corp-ltd

So R888 and NT01 may share the same DNA.

From what I have read, NT01s have the exact same compound as Toyo RA1s. Not sure about the R888s.

[timbo_3101]

Originally Posted by 135

I'm currently building up a list of slicks, semis and street tyres so I can make a decision, although, I'd categorise RE-11, AD08R, RS-3, etc as street tyres - even though they can also be used on the track. Something is going to win out - I'm wondering if it's going to be commonsense.

(Apologies if this comes across as lecturing.)

Sounds very organised, and I think your approach to setting up the 135i is perfect (tyres-suspension-brakes-power-aesthetic). The tyres you have mentioned above are also excellent, particularly if one is compromising between daily and high performance use (due to having only one set of wheels). However, if one were to select any of these "intermediate" tyres, then would a second set of tyres be sufficiently different to warrant the effort, or to provide performance and safety under both favourable and adverse conditions?

The regular 1ers in Melbourne run with full competition tyres (eg TD221, V710) but resort to street tyres (eg PSS or equivalent) for cold and wet weather. Not that we have any particular expertise (in fact I am probably the least competent), but this offers the ideal combination of maximum performance and acceptable safety for our unpredictable Victorian weather.

Originally Posted by 135

This could still be an option with DOT semis for track duty and RE-11 (or similar) for the street.

If you believe there is sufficient difference between semi-slick tyres and RE-11, and that one of these can excel under cold and wet conditions, then this is excellent in principle.

If you do not believe there is sufficient difference, then will you be forced to retire prematurely as rain soaks the circuit?

Two tyres. All conditions.