Differences between COBB and JB4

[J-Sud]

Originally Posted by Freon

This is a completely worthless subjective and poorly informed opinion. Both of you.

If you do not have experience tuning cars, you should not be spreading your ill-informed opinion to the masses.

Shame on you both!

Lower IAT is safer....whether it be excessive for this car or not that is a fact. I have had multiple local tuners suggest a FMIC when raising boost. It gets and stays very hot in Houston. Like I said, you may think it is excessive.

[e1001usa]

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

I personally cannot comment on JB4, Giac, or Proceed (which are all great options) but I can tell you a bit about my experience with my Cobb AP.

As some have noted, power aside, the Cobb is really easy to use. Install time is done from your driver seat and it takes about 25 minutes for the intitial install and about 10 minutes to change maps after. Downloading maps from Cobb and Loading them onto the AP is as easy as putting music on your ipod. I was particularly attracted to Cobb because my car was under warranty and I wanted to easily go back to stock for dealer services. I quickly uninstalled it each time and had zero dealer issues while running the cobb AP.

Another benefit to the Cobb AP which often gets over looked is the trouble shooting aspect. You can read and clear codes with it. This makes trouble shooting much easier. The Cobb AP even when installed and mated to a specific car can be used to read codes on other compatible vehicles.

Cobb fairly regularly updates with new maps. last year cobb updated their maps library several times. Stage 1, 1+,2, 2+, in drive, sport, and aggressive maps. Many maps have different throttle options as well. Having the option to change your map based on mods, desired level of tuning and available octane is very nice. I have been updating my car throughout the year with new map releases and the current beta maps are a significant update over some of the earlier maps.

One major downside of the Cobb AP for many people to Cobb AP is the lack of Methanol Support. Personally I didnt plan on running meth so it didnt sway me but for people wanting maximum power with meth support the Proceed or JB4 are better.

RB turbos, which I am considering, the JB4 is the best option.

If price is a major factor in your decision, the JB4 has a significant advantage over the other options. If your car is out of warranty, the JB4 is more attractive as well as you would really only have to put it in for the initial instal and possibly disconnect it for a Smog check.

If your car has a decent amount of warranty left and the only mod you are planning is a tune (as your original post states) I would 100% suggest the Cobb AP.

Good info

[foghat]

Originally Posted by bryce

yes. yes. and yes.

don't take my word for it though. accoding to this forum's main bms distributor, i'm just a fanboy.

i'd suggest you try out the main tunes (cobb, procede, jb4) and form your own opinion. i'd bet good money that you sell the jb4 and cobb.

lol

so, mike, does that mean that you've ran the procede rev. 3 and cobb stage 2+ on your 335i? i didn't think so. so you're just a bms fanboy. your opinion is about as valuable as some that sticks their head in a thread like this and says: "jb4 ftw i love mine"

I am kinda torn between the procede and jb4. I know the procede can control timing and that is sold as a big plus. But jb4 seems to have much better support - or at least it is more visible.

Heck, last thursday I tried emailing vishnu with some specific questions I had about the procede. The email address I got right from their site bounced back 2 days later with a 'mail server for vishnutuning.com unreachable for too long' error.

Honestly, that does not give me warm fuzzies about support for the product. Whereas Terry emails right back and has a huge presence in his n54tech forum.

So, I dunno.

[GuamX1]

I am very happy with my JB4. I had a Cobb on my STI the JB4 maybe harder to physically install but after that stage it is the best!

[ChristianReyess]

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

I personally cannot comment on JB4, Giac, or Proceed (which are all great options) but I can tell you a bit about my experience with my Cobb AP.

As some have noted, power aside, the Cobb is really easy to use. Install time is done from your driver seat and it takes about 25 minutes for the intitial install and about 10 minutes to change maps after. Downloading maps from Cobb and Loading them onto the AP is as easy as putting music on your ipod. I was particularly attracted to Cobb because my car was under warranty and I wanted to easily go back to stock for dealer services. I quickly uninstalled it each time and had zero dealer issues while running the cobb AP.

Another benefit to the Cobb AP which often gets over looked is the trouble shooting aspect. You can read and clear codes with it. This makes trouble shooting much easier. The Cobb AP even when installed and mated to a specific car can be used to read codes on other compatible vehicles.

Cobb fairly regularly updates with new maps. last year cobb updated their maps library several times. Stage 1, 1+,2, 2+, in drive, sport, and aggressive maps. Many maps have different throttle options as well. Having the option to change your map based on mods, desired level of tuning and available octane is very nice. I have been updating my car throughout the year with new map releases and the current beta maps are a significant update over some of the earlier maps.

One major downside of the Cobb AP for many people to Cobb AP is the lack of Methanol Support. Personally I didnt plan on running meth so it didnt sway me but for people wanting maximum power with meth support the Proceed or JB4 are better.

RB turbos, which I am considering, the JB4 is the best option.

If price is a major factor in your decision, the JB4 has a significant advantage over the other options. If your car is out of warranty, the JB4 is more attractive as well as you would really only have to put it in for the initial instal and possibly disconnect it for a Smog check.

If your car has a decent amount of warranty left and the only mod you are planning is a tune (as your original post states) I would 100% suggest the Cobb AP.

This is EXACTLY what I was looking for, yeah price is a lot higher, but I think it will be worth it, I still have two years of warranty or 80ks left and plan to sell in a year and get a 2011 or so.

thank you so much. Now to do some shopping, see if i can get one at a discount or something!

once again thank you very much!


I find these forums to be a lot more "mature" then when I was at the evolution forums.

Thank you guys. I will be reading through the forums more soon, Im am just a little busy with my new job!

excited to be a part of the forum.

[old account 2]

Be careful when you talk about controlling timing. An external unit will utilize CPS offsetting, changing what the DME believes to be TDC. Further, this is a static map as opposed to being a dynamic setting.

[JB4-335]

Originally Posted by bryce

voted neither. procede is better than cobb and jb4; i've owned all 3 tunes for significant amounts of time

Funny guy. You crack me up everytime.

[bryce]

Originally Posted by foghat

I am kinda torn between the procede and jb4. I know the procede can control timing and that is sold as a big plus. But jb4 seems to have much better support - or at least it is more visible.

Heck, last thursday I tried emailing vishnu with some specific questions I had about the procede. The email address I got right from their site bounced back 2 days later with a 'mail server for vishnutuning.com unreachable for too long' error.

Honestly, that does not give me warm fuzzies about support for the product. Whereas Terry emails right back and has a huge presence in his n54tech forum.

So, I dunno.

if you look over on e90post, their email server was down for a few days. i believe it's back up and running again, since monday.

i see your point, but i've never had any support issues with vishnu. shiv has called me on my cell at 7pm to help diagnose a misfire. the people that say vishnu's support sucks have probably just never got a PM on the forums back from them, because they're too busy to respond on the forums. if you email or call them, they're great.


one other thing: you really should base your decision on what's best for your car. timing control/support is really a big plus, that gives more consistent performance. i'd rather not need the constant customer service/suppport for a product that works as intended.

[bryce]

Originally Posted by JB4135

Funny guy. You crack me up everytime.

[Dosturbos]

Originally Posted by e1001usa

Good info

Agreed, the ap is sick. I just ditched my jb4. My local tuner is a Cobb pro-tuner. He gave me a custom map. That destroys the jb4. I am running intercooler, dp's, and full exhaust, as well as dci. The Cobb with OTS maps feel much stronger to me than jb4.

[ChristianReyess]

Well I went with the JB4 for now. Installed it last night.
First off I want to disclose that Terry @ BT is awesome and super patient with me. And I really appreciate his time spent listening to my bitching and all my pictures and mini videos while freaking out in the background.
He stayed in contact with me via email up till 1AM, on a Sunday night, when finally my baby started (funny story, I guess you could call it funny, more of a horror themed story)

I have to admit that whole plug-in-play had me feeling like a plug-in-fail! For like 40 min. scared the crap out of me at first. But then again this is my first piggy back I have installed, and I tend to panic at the first sign of trouble when it comes to my car. That said.

I had installed everything correctly. But I believe I didn’t give my car enough time to reset it-self and “adapt” itself to the JB4.
And the engine was giving me all types of errors when I would try and start the engine.

I freaked out (since I had work the next day, I work at a bank) that I wouldn’t have a functioning car the next morning. So I emailed Terry and decided to go back stock and retry after work the next day….
When I had the car back to stock… It still wouldn’t start and would rev up and down and then id have to turn it off (in fear that I was damaging the engine in some way, and I based that on absolutely nothing)
So I decided to just pull the power, in hopes that it would reset the ecu on stock settings and the car would start as usual….
Now I wouldn’t even start, I’m guessing the car had gone into some sort of… “safe mode”.

By now... Maybe but ten minutes since I had sent Terry an SOS email. He replied, in such a friendly way “you made a mistake, send photos of install” I wasn’t sure whether to be upset at his assumption, or relieved that he didn’t send me a “oh shit, umm this never happens”. I guess he conviction some how soothed me hahah.

Anyways he told me I had to re-install the JB4, and that the reason the car wouldn’t start without it was that the JB4 had to clear the codes I had triggered to even be able to start the car stock or though the JB4.
So I re-installed everything … and took video’s and pictures every step of the way… And once again the car would not start and neither of us could figure out why.

At this point was getting pretty worried about the car, but his continues help made me sure that he wasn’t going to bail out and just clock out for the night.

Finally he told me to just bring in the car (fortunately I live about an hour away from him and have this option) He also told me I could have a local shop clear the codes or to use a tool like the BT or CT to clear the code so the vehicle would operate normally, this I never tried so I don’t know how that would have spanned out.

But when I was planning on moving the car, and put in neutral… I was able to enter the wheel controls, that I was previously not able to enter. At that moment I was sure I was in. It had been about 15 min that I had just left the car alone looking over videos of the installation to triple check everything was okay.

So I selected the 1st tune (recommended for stock cars) and WAAAHLAAAAHHHHH the car started smoothly and was in. At first I had no power steering and within a 20 seconds it kicked in.
Took the car for a little spin, let the car warm up… did I quick little sprint, and man did my butt dyno go crazy! (I’ll elaborate later after I get some more time behind the wheel and am not at work :P)

So I guess moral of the story, and conclusion to my issue was literally to be patient and give the car a couple minutes (15 to be safe) with the piggy back.. and then come back and start it if you have any issues, The physical installation was pretty straight forward and easy. Don’t doubt yourself too much, run a quick check and make sure that the cables are connected facing the right way (verify that arrows are all pointing the same way) everything is smooth and all sub connectors fit perfectly and slid right in, if you have to force it in at all…. Then you are doing something wrong.

And if you need anything Terry is there and WILL respond immediately. Not to mention that he let me pick up the JB4 on Sunday from him because I was too inpatient to wait till then shipped it out to me.

Thank you BT!!
Ps I’m at work, probably shouldn’t be writing this… hahah

[ChristianReyess]

Still going strong with the JB4, water pump went out. Got it replaced under warrenty and back on the road.

took out the jb4 for the warrenty work then put it back on.

One of my pins broke so I will have to get that replaced for future installing and uninstalling.

Pain in the but. But performance is amazing with no other mod.

[foghat]

I just bought an Accessport. Looking forward to giving it a go.

[WPG D33Z]

The Cobb is so much easier to install with no f'ing around. I love it. Plus you can use it as a code reader on other cars as well.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Personally I would pick JB or COBB. Think from the point of proven performance the JB3/4 with all the top 135/335 N54 & N55 stock/RB turbo cars at Drag Times speaks for itself with out a lot of X "feels" faster than X. For COBB a Protune, not sure of the cost, by Dzenno looks to be the pick of the litter.

[ChristianReyess]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Personally I would pick JB or COBB. Think from the point of proven performance the JB3/4 with all the top 135/335 N54 & N55 stock/RB turbo cars at Drag Times speaks for itself with out a lot of X "feels" faster than X. For COBB a Protune, not sure of the cost, by Dzenno looks to be the pick of the litter.

Cobb and the JB4 are definitely proven and proven again and again time after time. I had a water pump go out on me, but idk if that was jb4 related.

Originally Posted by WPG D33Z

The Cobb is so much easier to install with no f'ing around. I love it. Plus you can use it as a code reader on other cars as well.

Yeah the installation of the JB4 isnt THAT bad but I already have a messed up pin in the ECU from taking it on and off every time I take it in to the dealership.

Originally Posted by foghat

I just bought an Accessport. Looking forward to giving it a go.

I really like this simplicity of the installation! but it is more expensive and no on the fly switching between maps! I love going from no turbo to stage two!

Originally Posted by ChristianReyess

Still going strong with the JB4, water pump went out. Got it replaced under warranty and back on the road.

took out the jb4 for the warranty work then put it back on.

One of my pins broke so I will have to get that replaced for future installing and uninstalling.

But I plan on getting another 135i or a 335i

Pain in the but. But performance is amazing with no other mod.

[foghat]

Originally Posted by ChristianReyess

I really like this simplicity of the installation! but it is more expensive and no on the fly switching between maps! I love going from no turbo to stage two!

Why would you be running a no turbo map. I haven't changed maps since the 1st week of owning my jb4, so on the fly switching isn't a big selling point for me. I will miss the gauge hijacking though.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

The no turbo map is scaled toward MPG so someone taking a long hi-way trip can use it or if you got stuck with crappy gas.

I run two maps 6 & 5 Map 6 is tuned for 95/96 octane gas & Map 5 is my E85 map.

[foghat]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

The no turbo map is scaled toward MPG so someone taking a long hi-way trip can use it or if you got stuck with crappy gas.

I run two maps 6 & 5 Map 6 is tuned for 95/96 octane gas & Map 5 is my E85 map.

But....if you are cruising on the highway at a constant speed, your turbos aren't doing much anyway. Would seem to me you'd want them there for passing and such. Same with crappy gas, easy enough to stay out of boost, though I imagine the dme would compensate as required.

Map switching makes sense for sure with an ecu tune if you are running different gas, but in your case why not just use map 5 for everything? Getting more consistency with map 6?

[ragingpanda]

The only thing I miss about JB4 is Terrys customer service. Map switching on the fly is overrated.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by foghat

But....if you are cruising on the highway at a constant speed, your turbos aren't doing much anyway. Would seem to me you'd want them there for passing and such. Same with crappy gas, easy enough to stay out of boost, though I imagine the dme would compensate as required.

Map switching makes sense for sure with an ecu tune if you are running different gas, but in your case why not just use map 5 for everything? Getting more consistency with map 6?

Map 8 gets better MPG then Map 0 the BMW pass through map. You asked what its for & that's what its for.

Map 6 is for run to run consistency especially when playing with logs & making changes to the JB4's settings. Additionally my Map 6 because of a 95/96 octane fuel mix runs higher fixed boost levels across the board then the default Map 6. I am more comfortable with fixed settings although Map 5 could also work.

There were only a few 335is with JB4’s when G5 was coming out then again when it went to ISO I did a lot of test runs.

Going back to G4 I was testing Map 2 without downpipes on the 335is using 93 octane fuel with Terry's input. All the regular 335i without downpipes were recommended to run on Map 1 or 5 by BMS. The 335i & 335is have different timing advance curves from the factory which allowed this to happen.

That led to a JB4-G4 335IS 93 octane or better specific Map 6 & the additional option on the interface for 335is, 1M & Dinan.

I did a lot of G5 & G5/ISO Alpha & Beta hex file logs which were set in to Terry as the software progressed. A visible change for the N54 was Dinan being removed from interface option 6 & the COBB/BMS flash being added.

When I am using E85 I do a “that's close enough” type fuel mix so Map 5 works out very well adjusting to the changes in octane content.

As was said above you don't need instantaneous map switching but its real convenient if you are playing with the tunes