First track day in the 135 - Lakeside Raceway

BMWRX · 09-16-2009, 02:20 AM

What's the best time that a bog standard 135i has run around Lakeside (with or without track rubber)? My WRX runs 1:06 with standard suspension, standard brakes, and street tyres (admittedly with a fair chunk of power over standard), so I would have thought that 1:07 is fairly conservative from a 135i.

TimMc · 09-16-2009, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWRX

Tim, you're tempting me a lot my man. I haven't joined the BMW Club yet, but with the carrot of a track day dangled in front of me, I might just have to put my name down soon. However, my car only has a few thousand km's on the clock, so might give it a while to settle in before I go bezerk.

How do you go with tyre wear at Lakeside?

C'mon! You don't have to join to come along though it's cheaper when you're a member.
This one's actually at Qld Raceway, Willowbank. Not Lakeside. QR is faster, safer (more run off area and sand traps), though not quite as fun as Lakeside. Tyre wear? Depends on how hard you corner. You only have to push as hard as you want and you'll have a ball no matter how hard you run.

TimMc · 09-16-2009, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWRX

What's the best time that a bog standard 135i has run around Lakeside (with or without track rubber)? My WRX runs 1:06 with standard suspension, standard brakes, and street tyres (admittedly with a fair chunk of power over standard), so I would have thought that 1:07 is fairly conservative from a 135i.

1:06 sounds like a very good time for standard gear. Warren Luff allegedly ran a 1:03 in a 135. Power at the track is nowhere near as important as suspension, tyres & brakes. You must be a pretty good driver.

TimMc · 09-16-2009, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imported_Dizzy

Hi Tim

I have just emailed Angus what do i need to bring, i have never been on the track before what time do i need to get there

Thanks for the post

Darren

Hi Darren.
I think Angus is working in Indonesia at the moment, though he still gets emails intermittently. All the info is on the BMW Club Qld website including start times and gear you need. Basically; shoes, long sleeves, helmet, roadworthy car. The club president Ian Solomon can help out. Here's some details;
**********************************
Hi all,
This is the last call for entrants to the Sprints on Friday morning at QR. We do not accept cash on the day, however we can accept cheques, but again, you must register!!!
http://www.bmwclubqld.asn.au/Filestore/events/Sprints/Sprint-QR.htm
http://shop.bmwclubqld.asn.au/store/viewItem.shop?idProduct=18
If you have issues with the website, please do not hesitate to call me, and I will talk you thru the process.
Ian SOLOMON
President
0403 173 235

BMWRX · 09-16-2009, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimMc

1:06 sounds like a very good time for standard gear. Power at the track is nowhere near as important as suspension, tyres & brakes. You must be a pretty good driver.

Ok, I owe you, your car and your driving a big apology. I just double checked my times from Lakeside and it was 1:08 (I'm unsure where I got 1:06 from - actually on recollection, that was my QR Sprint track time in a completely bog standard WRX). I should learn to check my numbers before posting in future, rather than rely on my overdrawn memory bank.

My faith in the 135i has been revived!!!

Guran · 09-16-2009, 05:25 AM

re. the concern over the seats

Just get yourself a 4-point harness and the standard seats will be fine. The shoulder straps can clip into the ISOFIX mounting points on the rear seat, and you can get waist straps that use the regular seat-belt buckle and the rail on the floor. Job done and this works far better than the best seat in the world if you only have the regular seatbelt.

TimMc · 09-16-2009, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guran

re. the concern over the seats

Just get yourself a 4-point harness and the standard seats will be fine. The shoulder straps can clip into the ISOFIX mounting points on the rear seat, and you can get waist straps that use the regular seat-belt buckle and the rail on the floor. Job done and this works far better than the best seat in the world if you only have the regular seatbelt.

Yeah, I've got a four point I took out of my E30. It's got four clips and comes with eye hooks. Not fitted to the E82 yet. I've bought a carabiner to use on the seat rail but I'm not sure what to use for the back two straps. ISOFIX? Are these the covered mounts at the base of the rear seat? Clips and carabiner won't fit in that tight space and I'm not sure they're rated to handle my muscle bound 77kg weight

. I was looking at folding down the rear seat and mounting two eye hooks to the underside of the rear parcel shelf. I may be able to use flat piece of bracing steel to mount the eye hooks to. Harness is good to hold you in place in case of high impact, but doesn't make you feel as one with the car as a good race seat does.

Guran · 09-17-2009, 01:17 AM

Yes, the ISOFIX mounting points are those two little bars that you can see when you lift the plastic covers at the base of the rear seat. If you remove the rear seat base, you should have easy access to the ISOFIX mounting points ... if not with the harness clips alone, then in combination with a couple of carabiners (proper climbing ones are rated to take the shock weight of a person so they'll be fine in this application). I'm pretty sure that the ISOFIX points are rated to cope with this use, but if you want to be totally sure, you might check with your local BMW service. Otherwise you'd need to drill some holes in the chassis - and make sure you use a backing plate to spread the load. You can find details in the CAMS Manual.

Agree that a good race seat works wonders in combination with a harness, but I still reckon that a harness/stock-seat is better for driving feel and restraint than compared with no-harness/race-seat - the difference is mainly under braking. I've tried both in my MX-5 and that's how I've formed this opinion.

Caduceus · 09-17-2009, 03:40 AM

OK so I've signed up for tomorrow. Spoke with Ian and I'm all go to go. See you there, Tim and anyone else who's going

TiAg 135 Coupe.

TimMc · 09-17-2009, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guran

Yes, the ISOFIX mounting points are those two little bars that you can see when you lift the plastic covers at the base of the rear seat. If you remove the rear seat base, you should have easy access to the ISOFIX mounting points ... if not with the harness clips alone, then in combination with a couple of carabiners (proper climbing ones are rated to take the shock weight of a person so they'll be fine in this application). I'm pretty sure that the ISOFIX points are rated to cope with this use, but if you want to be totally sure, you might check with your local BMW service. Otherwise you'd need to drill some holes in the chassis - and make sure you use a backing plate to spread the load. You can find details in the CAMS Manual.

Agree that a good race seat works wonders in combination with a harness, but I still reckon that a harness/stock-seat is better for driving feel and restraint than compared with no-harness/race-seat - the difference is mainly under braking. I've tried both in my MX-5 and that's how I've formed this opinion.

Thanks Guran. I'll give this a go. I guess the seat lower just lifts out? Plenty of Carabiners at our place. The GF used to have her own rock climbing company!
There are already holes in the underside of the parcel tray. I think I just need the the threaded backing plate there.
I don't really have an issue staying in place during braking, just hard cornering.
Cheers, Tim.

TimMc · 09-17-2009, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caduceus

OK so I've signed up for tomorrow. Spoke with Ian and I'm all go to go. See you there, Tim and anyone else who's going

TiAg 135 Coupe.

Excellent. See you there!

m3bs · 09-17-2009, 07:44 AM

Some clubs here have banned the use of 4-pt harnesses for track events. The lack of a sub strap allows the lap belt to ride up, and the driver to slide under in the event of a crash. A 911 driver suffered two broken kneecaps at a recent event as a result. That was enough to convince me.

If you are serious about tracking, get proper seats. You'll kick yourself for not having done it sooner. It definitely helps.

BMWRX · 09-17-2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m3bs

Some clubs here have banned the use of 4-pt harnesses for track events. The lack of a sub strap allows the lap belt to ride up, and the driver to slide under in the event of a crash. A 911 driver suffered two broken kneecaps at a recent event as a result. That was enough to convince me.

If you are serious about tracking, get proper seats. You'll kick yourself for not having done it sooner. It definitely helps.

Fair point, but you want to be careful getting a five-point harness without a rollcage in the car. If you flip over, there's really nowhere for you to go to protect your head.

m3bs · 09-17-2009, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWRX

Fair point, but you want to be careful getting a five-point harness without a rollcage in the car. If you flip over, there's really nowhere for you to go to protect your head.

That's why my E36 has a full cage, seats, and 6-pt harnesses. I may not be able to run with the big boys, but I'm comfortable driving it to its limits (or mine, whichever come first)!

andrew@southernBM · 09-18-2009, 05:36 AM

Hey Guys did you run today, my mate ran his M3 E46 at the track today and said there were a few 135i's i wondered if they were from here.

Caduceus · 09-18-2009, 05:53 AM

Hi Andrew,

Yes, 4 x 135 coupes and 1 x 135 convertible there today. Two of us semi-regulars on 1-addicts and a couple of lurkers

Tim will probably post something up in the next few days. I'll try and give a report when I get a little more time. Busy right now.......

TimMc · 09-18-2009, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew@southernBM

Hey Guys did you run today, my mate ran his M3 E46 at the track today and said there were a few 135i's i wondered if they were from here.

Some were Andrew. I did get to pass a greeny/yellow E46 M3 in the first session

We had five 135s at Qld Raceway today out of ~30 cars all up! Four coupes and a vert. Some of the guys use this forum including Dizzy and Caduceus. A few non BMWs there too including a couple of GT3s (including a veeerrry quick cup car) and a new Nissan GTR.
If I figure out how to doctor my pictures to remove the other E82 guy's number plates I'll post some pictures...

We ran the "Clubman" & "National" circuits. On the Clubman I was about a second slower than in my old E30. On the National, where I could stretch the legs of the 135 down the back straight, I was a little quicker than the old girl. Pretty hard to control wheelspin out of the 2nd gear corners but on my last run, with an instructor sitting next to me advising, I used 3rd instead and ran similar times without cooking the rears as much. This only seemed to work well if I got on the throttle much earlier out of the corner - to wind up boost. Otherwise it just bogged down. Don't say this engine is completely lag free. On the plus side I seemed to pull in E36/46 M3s down the straight (except the worked race cars...), and while I couldn't pass the one E92 M3 that was there, I wasn't losing out at all on the straights. I was topping out in 4th down the back straight.

There was an ex Sherrin Bathurst 130i race car there that was about 3 seconds a lap quicker than the E82s. He's a good driver and runs, coil-overs, camber plates, semi slicks, exhaust, stripped interior etc. I was 2nd fastest 135 to Dizzy by 0.1s on the Clubman with Caduceus only 0.01 behind! 2nd to Caduceus by 0.4s on the National with the others not far back. All 135's were running pretty similar times. No 125s

Good fun

BBK · 09-18-2009, 10:57 AM

All standard Tim? Because I know one of the cars had some 'inside help' ;-)

TimMc · 09-18-2009, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBK

All standard Tim? Because I know one of the cars had some 'inside help' ;-)

Yeah, I think some of the 1ers have their boost tweaked. Still, this was the first track day for some, including Dizzy, so some pretty impressive times nonetheless.

MikeVictor · 09-18-2009, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimMc

Some were Andrew. I did get to pass a greeny/yellow E46 M3 in the first session

We had five 135s at Qld Raceway today out of ~30 cars all up! Four coupes and a vert. Some of the guys use this forum including Dizzy and Caduceus. A few non BMWs there too including a couple of GT3s (including a veeerrry quick cup car) and a new Nissan GTR.
If I figure out how to doctor my pictures to remove the other E82 guy's number plates I'll post some pictures...

We ran the "Clubman" & "National" circuits. On the Clubman I was about a second slower than in my old E30. On the National, where I could stretch the legs of the 135 down the back straight, I was a little quicker than the old girl. Pretty hard to control wheelspin out of the 2nd gear corners but on my last run, with an instructor sitting next to me advising, I used 3rd instead and ran similar times without cooking the rears as much. This only seemed to work well if I got on the throttle much earlier out of the corner - to wind up boost. Otherwise it just bogged down. Don't say this engine is completely lag free. On the plus side I seemed to pull in E36/46 M3s down the straight (except the worked race cars...), and while I couldn't pass the one E92 M3 that was there, I wasn't losing out at all on the straights. I was topping out in 4th down the back straight.

There was an ex Sherrin Bathurst 130i race car there that was about 3 seconds a lap quicker than the E82s. He's a good driver and runs, coil-overs, camber plates, semi slicks, exhaust, stripped interior etc. I was 2nd fastest 135 to Dizzy by 0.1s on the Clubman with Caduceus only 0.01 behind! 2nd to Caduceus by 0.4s on the National with the others not far back. All 135's were running pretty similar times. No 125s

Good fun

Nice one!

I'll make it out for Club and Country one day, I promise!

Caduceus · 09-18-2009, 11:48 PM

I run JB3 in my car but for the track day I dialled it back to Map 2, not wanting to be too hard on the car. The only other "mod" I had on my car for the day were Toyo RA-1 tyres which I was very impressed with. The front left did cop quite a hammering though.

On one of the sessions I did begin to get some brake fade so came in early. I actually expected it to be worse so overall I'm very impressed with the stock brake package. Especially since this track is very hard on brakes. I had a GPS datalogger in the car and saw a top speed o 174kph down the front straight and 189 down the back when we switched from the Clubman to the National circuit.

My assessment on what's needed for me to go faster in this car is:

1) More skill - I had a couple of the turns well sorted out but was very inconsistent on one in particular. The only left hander I found very difficult. Most of the time I was probably too fast into it and tended to wash off a lot of speed with understeer. Especially on the Clubman circuit where it is preceded by a hard right hander thus making it into an S-bend.

2) Add negative camber to the front. The back has plenty of grip, even with the standard diff. However the outside shoulder of both front tyres suffered a lot of wear.

3) Switch to a more race oriented set of pads in the front (and change to fresh racing fluid while I'm at it).

I think the car has plenty of power relative to the chassis dynamics. Any more and I think it would unmask some more handling limits. Having driven the current M3 on the same track I'm pleased with how well the 135 acquits itself. For me the most obvious superiority of the M3 was it's predictability during transition from heavy braking to turn-in as well as its stability on the choppy part of the track setting up into turn one.

I'm still grinning ;-)

andrew@southernBM · 09-19-2009, 02:29 AM

My mate had the Black M3,SC'd etc, pretty quick, he said a few of you guys are running JB3's, cool, i like reading about track days for the 135i guys and what supporting mods you run.

In Melb today there was a day at PI, one SBM AW 135i and another SBM LMB car, both tuned and both come away wanting some track tyres....

09-16-2009, 02:20 AM	#23
BMWRX Major 98 Rep 1,092 Posts Drives: F82 M4 CP Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Brisbane, Queensland iTrader: (0) Garage List 2017 BMW M4 [0.00]	What's the best time that a bog standard 135i has run around Lakeside (with or without track rubber)? My WRX runs 1:06 with standard suspension, standard brakes, and street tyres (admittedly with a fair chunk of power over standard), so I would have thought that 1:07 is fairly conservative from a 135i. __________________ 2017 BMW M4 Competition - Mineral Grey 2009 BMW 135i - Titan Silver - SOLD
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09-16-2009, 05:25 AM	#28
Guran Captain 24 Rep 895 Posts Drives: 08 135i Coupe Join Date: May 2008 Location: Wollongong, Australia iTrader: (0)	re. the concern over the seats Just get yourself a 4-point harness and the standard seats will be fine. The shoulder straps can clip into the ISOFIX mounting points on the rear seat, and you can get waist straps that use the regular seat-belt buckle and the rail on the floor. Job done and this works far better than the best seat in the world if you only have the regular seatbelt. __________________ 08 BMW 135i Sport Coupe \| Manual \| Sparkling Graphite \| Coral Red Boston Leather \| 10 Speaker Hi Fi
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09-17-2009, 01:17 AM	#30
Guran Captain 24 Rep 895 Posts Drives: 08 135i Coupe Join Date: May 2008 Location: Wollongong, Australia iTrader: (0)	Yes, the ISOFIX mounting points are those two little bars that you can see when you lift the plastic covers at the base of the rear seat. If you remove the rear seat base, you should have easy access to the ISOFIX mounting points ... if not with the harness clips alone, then in combination with a couple of carabiners (proper climbing ones are rated to take the shock weight of a person so they'll be fine in this application). I'm pretty sure that the ISOFIX points are rated to cope with this use, but if you want to be totally sure, you might check with your local BMW service. Otherwise you'd need to drill some holes in the chassis - and make sure you use a backing plate to spread the load. You can find details in the CAMS Manual. Agree that a good race seat works wonders in combination with a harness, but I still reckon that a harness/stock-seat is better for driving feel and restraint than compared with no-harness/race-seat - the difference is mainly under braking. I've tried both in my MX-5 and that's how I've formed this opinion. __________________ 08 BMW 135i Sport Coupe \| Manual \| Sparkling Graphite \| Coral Red Boston Leather \| 10 Speaker Hi Fi
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09-17-2009, 03:40 AM	#31
Caduceus First Lieutenant 342 Rep 396 Posts Drives: 2008 135 (sold), 2017 M2 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Australia iTrader: (0)	QR on 18th Sep OK so I've signed up for tomorrow. Spoke with Ian and I'm all go to go. See you there, Tim and anyone else who's going TiAg 135 Coupe.
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09-17-2009, 07:44 AM	#34
m3bs Captain 62 Rep 657 Posts Drives: 95 S54 M3, X5, GT4, GR Corolla Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: North Augusta, SC iTrader: (1)	Some clubs here have banned the use of 4-pt harnesses for track events. The lack of a sub strap allows the lap belt to ride up, and the driver to slide under in the event of a crash. A 911 driver suffered two broken kneecaps at a recent event as a result. That was enough to convince me. If you are serious about tracking, get proper seats. You'll kick yourself for not having done it sooner. It definitely helps.
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09-18-2009, 05:36 AM	#37
andrew@southernBM 169 Rep 1,537 Posts Drives: M2 G87, M4 G82 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia. iTrader: (0)	Hey Guys did you run today, my mate ran his M3 E46 at the track today and said there were a few 135i's i wondered if they were from here.
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09-18-2009, 05:53 AM	#38
Caduceus First Lieutenant 342 Rep 396 Posts Drives: 2008 135 (sold), 2017 M2 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Australia iTrader: (0)	QR today Hi Andrew, Yes, 4 x 135 coupes and 1 x 135 convertible there today. Two of us semi-regulars on 1-addicts and a couple of lurkers Tim will probably post something up in the next few days. I'll try and give a report when I get a little more time. Busy right now.......
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09-18-2009, 10:57 AM	#40
BBK Banned 89 Rep 3,070 Posts Drives: A boring one... Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Australia iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 BMW 135i [5.76]	All standard Tim? Because I know one of the cars had some 'inside help' ;-)
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09-18-2009, 11:48 PM	#43
Caduceus First Lieutenant 342 Rep 396 Posts Drives: 2008 135 (sold), 2017 M2 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Australia iTrader: (0)	I run JB3 in my car but for the track day I dialled it back to Map 2, not wanting to be too hard on the car. The only other "mod" I had on my car for the day were Toyo RA-1 tyres which I was very impressed with. The front left did cop quite a hammering though. On one of the sessions I did begin to get some brake fade so came in early. I actually expected it to be worse so overall I'm very impressed with the stock brake package. Especially since this track is very hard on brakes. I had a GPS datalogger in the car and saw a top speed o 174kph down the front straight and 189 down the back when we switched from the Clubman to the National circuit. My assessment on what's needed for me to go faster in this car is: 1) More skill - I had a couple of the turns well sorted out but was very inconsistent on one in particular. The only left hander I found very difficult. Most of the time I was probably too fast into it and tended to wash off a lot of speed with understeer. Especially on the Clubman circuit where it is preceded by a hard right hander thus making it into an S-bend. 2) Add negative camber to the front. The back has plenty of grip, even with the standard diff. However the outside shoulder of both front tyres suffered a lot of wear. 3) Switch to a more race oriented set of pads in the front (and change to fresh racing fluid while I'm at it). I think the car has plenty of power relative to the chassis dynamics. Any more and I think it would unmask some more handling limits. Having driven the current M3 on the same track I'm pleased with how well the 135 acquits itself. For me the most obvious superiority of the M3 was it's predictability during transition from heavy braking to turn-in as well as its stability on the choppy part of the track setting up into turn one. I'm still grinning ;-)
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09-19-2009, 02:29 AM	#44
andrew@southernBM 169 Rep 1,537 Posts Drives: M2 G87, M4 G82 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia. iTrader: (0)	My mate had the Black M3,SC'd etc, pretty quick, he said a few of you guys are running JB3's, cool, i like reading about track days for the 135i guys and what supporting mods you run. In Melb today there was a day at PI, one SBM AW 135i and another SBM LMB car, both tuned and both come away wanting some track tyres....
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