Apologies in advance... Throttle response

[Neovison]

I understand this post is partially redundant (sorry for that)… I want to run this by the 1 series experts. I have a 2013 135i with PPK, DCT. Some of the opinions regarding the horrible throttle delay haven’t been consistent with what I’ve experienced in my 135.

The PPK did not eliminate the throttle delay. It was noted that w/ the sport button pushed the delay is gone – Not true for me.

The service bulletin 12-15-14 was said to eliminate the delay. It was also said to eliminate the “burbles and pops” associated with PPK. Does anyone know if this is the case? My SA said he had never heard of 12-15-14 and it wasn’t “in the system”. Is this the current, standing remedy to the delay? If so, this is disappointing since I bought PPK and 12-15-14 might partially deprogram PPK (no cool sounds, maybe loss of HP/TQ?)

If 12-15-14 is the standing solution, then that won’t work for me… I wouldn’t risk losing the PPK programing that I paid for and I know that BMW doesn’t care and would throw on 12-15-14 with out regard to the PPK install.

Is the Sprint Booster the best solution? I’ve heard rave reviews and am aware of the controversy. The skeptics’ claim simply mashing the throttle will give you the same results of the SB. I think what is missing here is the “ramp rate”. I think this is key. Not sure if this is true, but we understand that at any given point the pedal is signaling how much power to drop. With SB, less pedal will render more power relatively speaking than the stock throttle response in the same physical position. I think everyone is in agreement here. One thing, back to “ramp rate” (and I don’t know much about this) but the SPEED of the application of power (foot pressing pedal) using SB is faster than the speed of application of power without SB. Someone noted “ramp rate” on the forum somewhere and I thought this was the explanation of the X factor regarding SB that the advocates can’t explain and the skeptics haven’t factored in? I think “ramp rate” might be the ‘thing’ that makes the SB feel great outside the bandwidth opinions (with SB less bandwidth, so more power applied given the relative position when compared to stock)… Whoever brought up “ramp rate” might be the expert explaining what SB really does? No one else has a variable (ramp rate) that might bridge the chasm of opinions between the advocates vs the skeptics.

Anyway… I gotta get this fixed… It is driving me nuts. I love this car, but this delay is maddening. I was at a 4 way stop, car stopped at all the stop signs, the other driver waves to me “go ahead”, I hit the throttle half way down – then NOTHING for a full second! Foot off throttle, then I say him “no you go ahead”… This is one of the more benign examples of the crap throttle response. I have others (and I’ll spare you) that could have been life threatening.

Do I have Service Bulletin 12-14-15 installed to fix?

Do I purchase the Sprint Booster to fix?

Do I come to terms that a great car will forever be hobbled with this seemingly trivial problem that is unfixable?

(Too much coffee… Appreciate your time)

[ShocknAwe]

The only advice I can give is not to waste your money on a sprint booster. All it does, and I mean ALL is make the throttle non-linear. For example, 50% would depending on setting of course, equal 100%. It does not change input response.

[Esteban]

Yes, there have been mixed feelings about SIB 12-15-14, read all about it here, if you haven't already:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1033690

If your throttle lag is that bad, I'd say try the software update. Some people have been happy with it.

If your dealer tells you they are not aware of this update, then go to a different dealer.

[CAVU]

Originally Posted by Neovison

Do I have Service Bulletin 12-14-15 installed to fix?

Installing this SB is your next step. Others with throttle response issues have installed the SB and reported a huge improvement. Take your car to the dealer and have the SB installed. It will not eliminate the PPK's pops and burbles... they will still be there.

[Hankdoll]

I just had 12 15 14 done about 2 weeks ago. Throttle lag dropped about 70% in frequency and delay from before (good). Burbles are about 50% quieter (bad). What a crappy trade-off. Fortunately, car still feels as fast as before. I, too, was going insane with the long throttle delays...it was borderline dangerous. I feel I had no choice.

[gmartan]

Originally Posted by Neovison

I understand this post is partially redundant (sorry for that)… I want to run this by the 1 series experts. I have a 2013 135i with PPK, DCT. Some of the opinions regarding the horrible throttle delay haven’t been consistent with what I’ve experienced in my 135.

The PPK did not eliminate the throttle delay. It was noted that w/ the sport button pushed the delay is gone – Not true for me.

The service bulletin 12-15-14 was said to eliminate the delay. It was also said to eliminate the “burbles and pops” associated with PPK. Does anyone know if this is the case? My SA said he had never heard of 12-15-14 and it wasn’t “in the system”. Is this the current, standing remedy to the delay? If so, this is disappointing since I bought PPK and 12-15-14 might partially deprogram PPK (no cool sounds, maybe loss of HP/TQ?)

If 12-15-14 is the standing solution, then that won’t work for me… I wouldn’t risk losing the PPK programing that I paid for and I know that BMW doesn’t care and would throw on 12-15-14 with out regard to the PPK install.
)

I can tell you that the PPK totally fixed my lag when implemented at the end of year one. It came back at the end of year two when they did an update during routine servicing. They don't tell you. After being stonewalled by my original dealer during year three I took it to Brian Jessell BMW who eventually got BMW to supply a new ECU. That fixed it, mostly. Two months later a new flash was released that had similar results. Suddenly mashing your foot to the floor still confuses it. Otherwise, it is pretty predictable now although tip-in is slow in non-sport mode to prevent passenger whiplash.

I am now satisfied and have the burble associated with my PPK. I remain deeply suspicious that the PPK needs to go back in after any ECU reflash although BMW dealers will claim otherwise. Just off dealer warranty, I should be OK going forward. Who has the latest flash without losing their PPK?

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by gmartan

I can tell you that the PPK totally fixed my lag when implemented at the end of year one. It came back at the end of year two when they did an update during routine servicing. They don't tell you.

You have to tell your service advisor "NO SOFTWARE UPDATES," and make sure it is written in your service order. This will keep you safe unless/until they have to do a software update because of some repair that requires one.

That's what I've been doing for years and it's been working for me so far.

[Overpar56]

My response;

I had the update done once the dealer contacted the regional service tech outlining the symptoms (intermittent trottle lag, idle rising at a stop, General DCT indicisions). Dealer wasn't aware of the update until I provided the info. It's been about 8 months if I recall since it was done. PPK1 was retained and pops and burbles are still there except if you turn off the car for a few mins and then restart and do a slow speed drive for about sixty seconds. After that in Sport mode the burbles are there. I frankly can't tell the difference before and after with the performance exhaust and PPK1 installed before the update. Even if I lost a few decibels, it would be worth it since the car is totally drivable now vs I wanted to sell it if they couldn't fix it.

Once you get it you're stuck with it so choose wisely.

[gmartan]

Originally Posted by EvenEsteban

You have to tell your service advisor "NO SOFTWARE UPDATES," and make sure it is written in your service order. This will keep you safe unless/until they have to do a software update because of some repair that requires one.

That's what I've been doing for years and it's been working for me so far.

I do that now obviously. The problem is that until you are impacted you don't know they futzed with your DME. Then it's too late and the loser dealers all say " BMW says, that's how it is supposed to work. It's normal."

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by gmartan

I do that now obviously. The problem is that until you are impacted you don't know they futzed with your DME. Then it's too late and the loser dealers all say " BMW says, that's how it is supposed to work. It's normal."

Well, sorry to hear that happened to you. I've been doing that from the beginning with this car, with the reason being that I've been reading this forum since 2008, when I got my first 1er and this is where I heard that. I didn't sign up with 1ADDICTS until a little while ago and was a long time lurker.

I was very happy with the performance of my car after I got PPK in 2011 and had heard on this forum that some software updates neutered the car and I did not want that to happen to me.

My service advisor used to look at me weird when I said "no software updates," and would say "why don't you want the latest software?" I would explain what I read on the forum. Now they're used to me and don't question me anymore.

[Neovison]

Yikes... This is a high stakes moment for me... I'm feeling the tension. Thanks

[Neovison]

DECISION MADE - After merging off the highway and taking a right hand slow sweeping turn, I coasted through the merge, saw a 18-wheeler behind me (on my left on the road I was trying to merge into), had plenty of room to merge ahead of him so tipped into the throttle... NOTHING... PUSHED HARDER... NOTHING... then (considering that I was about to get me and my two little guys killed) I pressed the throttle 85% to the floor... The car then did the obligatory neck snapping surge and we flew past the truck. Slammed on the brakes so I didn't hit the cars stopped at the light where I need to make a left... Dammit...

Unfortunately, I have an attorney on retainer for a legal issue. Fortunately, said attorney will help with this BMW issue starting with a certified letter to BMW. She went through all the initial steps that I need to take (Complaint with the National Highway Transportation and Safety Administration, then contact the California Attorney General…etc.…etc.… My personal bottom line - This is getting fixed, or I will find another comprehensive remedy.

BUT… After taking to the Service Manager at Niello BMW Sacramento, I’m not going straight to DEFCON 5 and am hoping they can fix this via the SIB 12-15-14… Like I mentioned, they are not currently aware of this SIB, so I provide a copy of screen shot (for now) and I’ll have to secure a PDF from my prior BMW dealer (out of state) where I bought my M-Coupe…

I’m going to remain calm; I have faith in these guys so far. Niello BMW installed my performance suspension, new windshield, performance power pack 2, 1M rear sub frame bushings…etc.… I’m $10K deep with these guys, and want to keep the car stock… I’ll post the final resolution (Sell/Sue or Fix) after Niello BMW addresses this… Thanks for all for the insight – I’m sure there are many who can sympathize with me here…

[Esteban]

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

[Hankdoll]

Yes , keep us posted. The SIB will make the lag tolerable. Still won't be a 100% fix, but you won't be killed by an 18 wheeler.

[TX135i]

You will be glad you did it. My car now feels like it should have felt all along, and I have had zero issues with the lag (or idle fluctuation or stalling)since the latest SIB install. Love to drive it now.

I bitched for 18 months before that SIB came out, but now I'm a happy camper. I did have to take the .pdf version to my dealer, who also said they were not aware, but once they checked into it they stood up and handled it.

[The Wind Breezes]

Here's how I got rid of the lag...ready?

Drive in manual mode and aggressively downshift. Boom. Car goes immediately when the gas is pressed...just make sure to press it down far enough!

[Neovison]

Originally Posted by TX135i

You will be glad you did it. My car now feels like it should have felt all along, and I have had zero issues with the lag (or idle fluctuation or stalling)since the latest SIB install. Love to drive it now.

I bitched for 18 months before that SIB came out, but now I'm a happy camper. I did have to take the .pdf version to my dealer, who also said they were not aware, but once they checked into it they stood up and handled it.

This is awesome to hear... thank you...

[Neovison]

Final non resolution determined - Finally had my appt at Niello BMW to address the throttle delay. They seem to be well intentioned good guys and had their chief tech guy brief me on the current software installed in my car. My 135 is a 2013, with (I think) a June 2013 build date. I said I needed to "see" the BMW terminal with a run down on my current software. They obliged - The SIB 12-15-14 is not necessarily the name of software installed but the tech service number. I didn't know that. He gave me brief lesson on the software naming convention and I had the latest "15- something-something" update that was the latest update issued for my car and exceed the highest integration level that was noted in the SIB 12-15-14 docs.... So the answer is that nothing can be done and what I'm experiencing is "normal" and DCT related and that is how this manual, automatic feels. I don't have a solid base reference so I have to take their word for it (and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt since I appreciate the extensive work they've done on the car - PPK, PE, PS, RSFB)... One thing though - If this is normal, those who did get the SIB 12-15-14 and are satisfied must have had horrendous throttle issues... My idle is regularly doing the up to 1000 RPM, down to 500 then back to 700 etc, and that was explained as the ECU managing the AC... Guess I'll look into pedal box or the sprint booster options? Really wanted to keep the car stock (and over paid through the nose to do so), but this delay is driving me manic... @##!!

[TX135i]

Neovision, this is terrible news, sorry to hear. I had exactly the same problems you described, the up and down idle at every stop light, horrible throttle response during slow roll acceleration, occasional stalling, etc. Loved the car but this ruined the whole experience. After battling the dealer who kept saying it was "normal" and I should try a different brand of gasoline, they installed SIB 12-15-14 (which was the second SIB they installed to try to fix this), and it completely fixed my car. Now it is a joy to drive and the idle is spot on every time, and no throttle response delays ever. It did get a little quieter I'll admit, but Berk helped fix that little problem.

I hope you get it fixed because it is not normal, and BMW proved that themselves after this SIB was installed. Good luck, man....

[Yeineken]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

Here's how I got rid of the lag...ready?

Drive in manual mode and aggressively downshift. Boom. Car goes immediately when the gas is pressed...just make sure to press it down far enough!

This. I've found if I try and roll a stop sign the DCT is almost in limbo trying to find the gear it needs to be in. Either changing gear manually or just coming to a complete stop works best.

[DuckCoverRoll]

I just dropped off my 135is for service to address the throttle lag problem. I hope they'll know about the SIB 12-15-14 update -- and I hope it won't change the audible profile of the engine exhaust. However, I much rather deal with the latter than getting stuck behind traffic and not moving when I need to change lane quickly because of the lag (which is what happened to me last week -- a very scary experience).

[TX135i]

Originally Posted by DuckCoverRoll

I just dropped off my 135is for service to address the throttle lag problem. I hope they'll know about the SIB 12-15-14 update -- and I hope it won't change the audible profile of the engine exhaust. However, I much rather deal with the latter than getting stuck behind traffic and not moving when I need to change lane quickly because of the lag (which is what happened to me last week -- a very scary experience).

Mine got a little quieter but I added a Berk Street, which over the last 6 months has broken in nicely. And you're right, the fix is much more important than the tone. You can work on the tone, the throttle response holds you hostage. Much happier now.