Iraq....

[mtnyeti12]

So I was just looking through a paper today and saw there will massive protest around the world in the next week. This is certain to get me verbally berated... but what does everyone think of the current situation? I've been back and forth so many times I don't get an outsiders perspective very often.

[JB 330ci]

Originally Posted by mtnyeti12

So I was just looking through a paper today and saw there will massive protest around the world in the next week. This is certain to get me verbally berated... but what does everyone think of the current situation? I've been back and forth so many times I don't get an outsiders perspective very often.

Don't believe what you see in the media...it is far from the truth
If you really want to find out what is going on ask me questions and I'll answer them.

[RBBMWE46M3]

It is G-dubbs 51st state.

[mtnyeti12]

Originally Posted by JB 330ci

Don't believe what you see in the media...it is far from the truth
If you really want to find out what is going on ask me questions and I'll answer them.

Hmm.. so your over here eh? Military?

[JB 330ci]

Yes I was military my first two tours in Iraq.(2002-2003) (2003-2004). But I decided to get out after my last stunt. I'm here as a civilian but I work in the Intelligence Community (IC). We do basically the same thing as the military guys minus the useless crap (If you have ever been in the military you know what I'm talking about here) however right now (since 2001) the government has been unsucessful at fulfilling the requirements for Intel positions in the military and civilian side. It is a huge market right now if you serve in any variety of Intel fields. (Open Source, Signal, Humint, Intel, Imagery, Masint, Counter Intel)

Jobs offering 60K+ for 2-3 years experience and your clearance without a college degree...and you see why military people (Intel here) jump at the opportunity to get out. For myself I finished my Masters while in the military at JMIC (Joint Military Intelligence College) in DC. I am currently in the reserves but I'm serving on the civilian side (working in the IC) in Iraq. It is highly unlikely I would ever be called up because of my position over here.

This is the reason why you see Intelligence positions contratcted out to organizations not associated with the DoD (Department of Defense).

[BellasBmw]

Originally Posted by mtnyeti12

So I was just looking through a paper today and saw there will massive protest around the world in the next week. This is certain to get me verbally berated... but what does everyone think of the current situation? I've been back and forth so many times I don't get an outsiders perspective very often.

This war is a civil war and always will be whether or not US presence is there. I believe the president is too involved to get troops out, he honestly believes what he's doing is right. However, 77% of people disapprove. And im one of them. I think he needs to pull troops out immediately. Just the other day US launched the biggest air strike since march 03, yet that means many civilians will also be killed. Sure you might kill a couple terrorists, but children as well. Id vote to impeach Bush, but i dont wanna have DICK as our president either. So i guess we're stuck.

[JB 330ci]

Originally Posted by BellasBmw

This war is a civil war and always will be whether or not US presence is there. I believe the president is too involved to get troops out, he honestly believes what he's doing is right. However, 77% of people disapprove. And im one of them. I think he needs to pull troops out immediately. Just the other day US launched the biggest air strike since march 03, yet that means many civilians will also be killed. Sure you might kill a couple terrorists, but children as well. Id vote to impeach Bush, but i dont wanna have DICK as our president either. So i guess we're stuck.

Incorrect.
The attack on Samarra was an air assault on the city, which means you lift Iraqi and US troops into the city to secure objectives and take out key leaders. Ground forces were primary used in a backup roll this time as perimeter security and funneling the terrorists/insurgents into areas to neutralize them. We do not level cities. It is house to house fighting. I personally contributed to the operating picture and the "prep" of the plan "Now released as Operation Swarmer"
This is what I mean by the media giving inaccurate descriptions of actions in Iraq.

The war is not a civil war...please do I need to go dig up a definition of civil war? What you are seeing is sectarian violence between the Shia and Sunni which was escalated because of the bombing of the Samarra Golden Mosque on 22 Feb 06. Sectarian violence does not equal civil war. I don't see the Sunni' or the Kurds forming a new government or breaking off from Iraq at this point. So labeling it a civil war is false.

I see you say we should leave Iraq? Why...what do you think will happen if we leave? We are stuck in Iraq until the Iraqi's form a new government and assume responsibility with a competent and effective government. We should have a reduced presence by 2008.

The Iraqi government and Army have shown very good signs of competence, and effectiveness at rooting out AQI and the insurgents. Problems exist of course but so far the Iraqi Army would get a thumbs up in my book.

Children die everyday in Africa and in the US. War is cruel and evil. Civilians get killed...it's a part of war deal with it. The US tries to avoid civilian casualties but like I said war has that effect.

77% of people disapprove and what latest poll are you listening too? It seems like it's a different number everyday. Just because a majority of people disapprove doesn't mean it was the wrong thing to do. Out of those 77% of Americans...what solution do you have for us to get out of Iraq? Do tell

Iraq is not a rosy picture like the administration would have you believe nor is it a failure like the media would have you believe. It is somewhere in between.

[Oz]

All my friends that served in Iraq as marine/army tells me the war is bullshit. I personally feel US went into Iraq to make money, not liberate people

[325 Baller]

and its not 77% of the population, its 77% of the people the news outlet chose to do the poll.

[Daytona_John]

I'm actually more concerned about the situation in Iran. It would seem UN sanctions are innevitiable, which is going to mean the price of oil will go up again, and will have devistating effects on the US economy.

Have any intel that can be shared on this situation?

[BellasBmw]

The original poster asked for opinion on the war- that was mine. Bush's approval rating fell to 33% yesterday. Obviously people are starting to take notice that something isnt right.

[JB 330ci]

Originally Posted by Daytona_John

I'm actually more concerned about the situation in Iran. It would seem UN sanctions are innevitiable, which is going to mean the price of oil will go up again, and will have devistating effects on the US economy.

Have any intel that can be shared on this situation?

Ah...Iran.
Iran is a problem considering what happened with the US and North Korea with Clinton and the Nuclear Framework Act (or whatever it was) which was signed in 1992. I'm not hitting on Clinton here because he really didn't see North Korea actually using their civilian reactors (and NK actually does have an energy problem compared to Iran) for weapons research and developing a crude bomb. North Korea isn't as bad as Iran because they are isolated and since the late 1980's don't deal with terrorism.

Now fast forward to Iran...they have oil, support terrorism, and have advocated the destruction of Israel. Should they be able to get the bomb...no. Should they be able to develop peaceful nuclear energy...yes. I have no qualms about Iran having nuclear energy for peaceful purposes yet they refuse to allow in the IAEA and started up their centerfuses for "nuclear research".
Iran has been stringing along the world community for years on their nuclear projects...why can't Iran be like a dozen other countries like Ukraine, Sweden, Germany, Japan, and allow IAEA inspections unless they have something to hide?

-If Iran does develop a nuclear weapon I agree they (as a nation-state) won't likely use it in a first-strike capacity since they know Israel has nukes as well. However their government is very unstable and certain factions could gain access to Iran's nukes and use them.

-Iran could give the knowledge to terrorist organizations or use of material in the construction of a dirty bomb or a crude nuclear device.

-Oil...Iran currently does not supply the US with any oil however by Iran holding oil shipments they will constrain the world supply which would effect the US anyway however, Iran receives over 50% of their income from oil...so will Iran use oil as a weapon...debatable

-Strait of Hormuz...If Iran blocks off access to the Strait the UN would come down very hard on Iran. This is the only step in which the UN would take action against Iran. 60% of the Worlds oil flows through the Strait of Hormuz.

-With the bomb Iran has the ability to hide behind a nuclear weapon and "do as they please".

- For Iran...using Iraq is our best strategy that is all I can say on this matter.

-UN...Looking at how Iraq ignored over 12 years of violating UN sanctions and the UN oil for food scandal...do you really think the UN will level sanctions or be effective against the Iranian government or the people in power? Despite what you may think of Iranian elections (which are a farce)...the true power belongs to the clerics.

-Iran has played the game very well…you gotta admit they are very smart and have put the world in a position which it doesn’t want to deal with. It seems like only Europe and the US see the problem with Iran.

-And again I have no problem with Iran having nuclear energy…that is not the issue…the issue is what Iran is doing as its nuclear research facilities and related areas. Iran doesn’t need a heavy water plant…nor the extensive amount of nuclear research facilities (which BTW Iran has barred the IAEA from inspecting) for “peaceful purposes”.

-If Iran does develop the bomb 3-10 years from now…what will people say in the future? We should have acted before they had the bomb?

Interesting eh?

[mtnyeti12]

Originally Posted by BellasBmw

This war is a civil war and always will be whether or not US presence is there. I believe the president is too involved to get troops out, he honestly believes what he's doing is right. However, 77% of people disapprove. And im one of them. I think he needs to pull troops out immediately. Just the other day US launched the biggest air strike since march 03, yet that means many civilians will also be killed. Sure you might kill a couple terrorists, but children as well. Id vote to impeach Bush, but i dont wanna have DICK as our president either. So i guess we're stuck.

So you don't like dick Bella...??? But seriously the war is about much more than meets the eye. Being over here multiple times I've seen what the press is printing and what is really happening. Unfortunatly too many press agencies (Al Jazeera being the worst...) show the war in a Vietnam style manner. I don't think the President nor his staff were expecting an insurgency of this magnitude and yes civil war has plagued Iraq for literally thousands of years (and may again here shortly). The root of the conflict is the network of terrorist and Iraq was (and is) a base camp for many organizations. I personally don't think we'll be out of Iraq for a long time (years..). Not to comment on the president but mistakes were made, as in any administration. You can take that for what it's worth, but I think people need to understand if you pull the troops out in one big chunk the world will go to shit in a hurry. Whew... okay off the soap box.. NEXT!

[JB 330ci]

Originally Posted by BellasBmw

The original poster asked for opinion on the war- that was mine. Bush's approval rating fell to 33% yesterday. Obviously people are starting to take notice that something isnt right.

However your opinion isn't based on facts. You have a flawed opinion. If you base your opinion on facts than I don't have a problem, however, even when you stated your opinion you opened yourself up to additional questions which you conveniently decided not to answer.

Don't dig yourself into a deeper hole.

[BellasBmw]

Originally Posted by JB 330ci

However your opinion isn't based on facts. You have a flawed opinion. If you base your opinion on facts than I don't have a problem, however, even when you stated your opinion you opened yourself up to additional questions which you conveniently decided not to answer.

Don't dig yourself into a deeper hole.

Opinion is opinion whether or not its based on facts. I'm 22, i take a few poli sci courses, watch the news here and there.. and talk with my fellow peers. Im not trying to say that im knowledgeable in exactly whats going on over there.. im strictly implying that i personally do not agree with the war. Nuff said.

[mtnyeti12]

Originally Posted by BellasBmw

Opinion is opinion whether or not its based on facts. I'm 22, i take a few poli sci courses, watch the news here and there.. and talk with my fellow peers. Im not trying to say that im knowledgeable in exactly whats going on over there.. im strictly implying that i personally do not agree with the war. Nuff said.

Bella - you seem like your knowledgeable enough and you're totally entitled to your opinion and your also right about the presidents approval rating... the one question I have is where the hell did you get that picture of the cat with a lime on it's head?!?! That's hilarious.. I'm going to do that to my Dane when I get back but I'll need a watermelon. Oh also the "air stike" was actually an air assault which is helicopters delivering troopies to the battle. So no collatoral damage on this one, except maybe the Iraqi Army guys tripping and falling on their faces.

[BellasBmw]

Originally Posted by mtnyeti12

Bella - you seem like your knowledgeable enough and you're totally entitled to your opinion and your also right about the presidents approval rating... the one question I have is where the hell did you get that picture of the cat with a lime on it's head?!?! That's hilarious.. I'm going to do that to my Dane when I get back but I'll need a watermelon. Oh also the "air stike" was actually an air assault which is helicopters delivering troopies to the battle. So no collatoral damage on this one, except maybe the Iraqi Army guys tripping and falling on their faces.

Hahah your the first that noticed my new avator. Pretty funny huh! I love cats, and when i saw that pic.. i couldnt help but think.. wow that is the most random picture of a cat. I love it!

Anyway, i wish i knew more about the war and exactly what we're doing over there, but i dont. So its unfair for me to impose my beliefs on anyone without having a solid backup. I just feel frustrated because i dont see anything being resolved, and it seems like we're running around in circles. Maybe cause my knowledge is based on the media and i know it is very skewed. So im always open to learn more, but i do not like when im immediately shot down because someone doesnt agree with my opinion.

[JB 330ci]

Originally Posted by BellasBmw

Opinion is opinion whether or not its based on facts. I'm 22, i take a few poli sci courses, watch the news here and there.. and talk with my fellow peers. Im not trying to say that im knowledgeable in exactly whats going on over there.. im strictly implying that i personally do not agree with the war. Nuff said.

Opinions based on opinions is not your opinion. You are taking someone else’s purported view and modifying it to fit what you think. As you notice I didn't attack your opinion but what your opinion is based on which is in this case another opinion. Edited

I see you do not agree with the war. Yes you are entitled to believe that however all I am doing is correcting the false information so you can be better informed and make a better opinion based on facts. I never attacked your stance on the war...just I wanted to know the reasons behind it.

[mtnyeti12]

Originally Posted by BellasBmw

Hahah your the first that noticed my new avator. Pretty funny huh! I love cats, and when i saw that pic.. i couldnt help but think.. wow that is the most random picture of a cat. I love it!

Anyway, i wish i knew more about the war and exactly what we're doing over there, but i dont. So its unfair for me to impose my beliefs on anyone without having a solid backup. I just feel frustrated because i dont see anything being resolved, and it seems like we're running around in circles. Maybe cause my knowledge is based on the media and i know it is very skewed. So im always open to learn more, but i do not like when im immediately shot down because someone doesnt agree with my opinion.

Hahaha!!! That is the best pic of a cat I've seen - even better than the big wet cat pic.

You know I've seen very little improvement on the daily IED's / small arms attacks and actually they seem to be increasing as I drive the roads. But at this point I believe we've reached the old game of who can last the longest. We need ole Dick to be strong here and go the distance.. haha (sorry had to throw that in there). They (insurgents) are barley keeping pace as we knock them down. If we quit now - they win and that terrorfies me. If they win that will send a shock wave through the world and every little thug with an AK-47 will pop his demented little head up. So.. as the media portrays a "war" with battle lines against an insurgency we are actually fighting a global network of terrorism. Believe it or not the Iraqi people are actually against both the Americans being here and the insurgents (aka terrorist) here as well.

[JB 330ci]

Originally Posted by mtnyeti12

You know I've seen very little improvement on the daily IED's / small arms attacks and actually they seem to be increasing as I drive the roads. But at this point I believe we've reached the old game of who can last the longest. We need ole Dick to be strong here and go the distance.. haha (sorry had to through that in there). They (insurgents) are barley keeping pace as we knock them down. If we quit now - they win and that terrorfies me. If they win that will send a shock wave through the world and every little thug with an AK-47 will pop his demented little head up. So.. as the media portrays a "war" with battle lines against an insurgency we are actually fighting a global network of terrorism. Believe it or not the Iraqi people are actually against both the Americans being here and the insurgents (aka terrorist) here as well.

For the most part. No one likes an occupying force in their country. This is why standing up the Iraqi's are vital to winning the war in Iraq. The Kurds still are highly supportive of the US and to a lesser extent the Shia. We are trying to win the Sunni's over but I think the best we can hope for in this case is their involvement in Iraqi politics and government.

The problem is if Iraq wasn't the center focal point of GWOT (which sad to say it is now...it did not start this way at first) we would have an easier time in Iraq without dealing with the jihadists, extremists, terrorists’, foreign fighters, etc.

[N1]

late but in action. As a second lieutenant in this forum and reading your point of views but with US i have said and i believe you must act now, move out of baghdad, move north were the support is real. Any invasion must end and in the move it will be more easier to leave irak as soon as they gather a new army and a police force. Dont fall in any arguement to enter in iran, if its necessary launch air force, and explanations only in UN. The war is here to stay, impossible to win its against arab world from west africa to thetchenia and from middle east to phillipines and has begun a thousand years ago. Now its global and they have attacked US to show the arabs its great power. Fundamentalists won the first country in IRAN in 1979 with khomeiny and they were spreading it was a matter of time to have a new war, never full scale i hope. The central question is israel and the possession or property of jerusalem as we western culture, we are infidels, dogs, and they must kill us. The young students of islamism do it for a few virgins in paradise, like kamikaze in imperial japan. Iraq was the center of the ancient arab empire and the center of an ancient civilization MESOPOTAMIA. They were conquered several times but never beaten and they only respect the force, see as hussein did maintain a terror state for decades against the vast majority of iraquis. My country supports the action without fighting forces but we believe as the british that the transition must be fast, very fast, in order to leave the spot. They will remain exactly as they are for centuries, they like to live that way as it was in africa, they are in the same state of civilization than before.

[mjh93sa]

Firstly, the following is my opinion for which I make no apologies.

It is my belief that the situation in Iraq is a natural consequence of the interference from both America and Britain and that resolution will be extremely difficult.

Firstly I would like to suggest that the problems actually stem from the formation of Iraq as a country by Britain in the early part of the last century. Britian imposed a political and territorial structure on the area without reference existing tribal structure of the area, particularly the kurdish/muslim divide. The tensions thus created have lead to a number of problems over the years, and continue to be a source of antagonism between factions today. Thus, for Iraq to exist as a nation requires a strong goverment able to quash any uprising, risking censure from other nations.

Step forward to recent times, and whilst the actions of the western nations to rid the country of a tyranical dictator can be applauded, I cannot help but feel that the deep religous and cultural differences between our societies have doomed the actions taken to result in the position reached today. The GulfWar of 1990 was undertaken under a UN mandate, with the support of Arab nations to restore the territory and rulers of Kuwait. The lack of such support I believe to be a critical mistake in the subsequent invasion of 2003. Whilst any nation will resent the occupation of it's lands by another (and will certainly result in a resistance movement), without the support of other muslim nations the religious differences drive another level of resentment and hatred. It is my belief that, despite the obvious difficulties, the formation of an arab supported government in exile (that could appeal to the people of Iraq) before the invasion may well have lead to a more peaceful transition.

However, all of the above aside, the situation in Iraq exists and requires resolution. Whilst persons of any nationality continue to be killed daily it is encumbent upon those responsible for the conflict (directly or indirectly) to find a resolution. It is therefore clear that the US and UK cannot just withdraw and leave the Iraqi's to fight it out amongts themselves, as who knows how many lifes may then be lost, and what sort of regime would result. The road ahead is long, paved with good intentions and sadly many bodies.

From the above I am sure that you can see that my personal opinion is that the invasion of Iraq was driven by political aims as an all too quick reaction to terrorist action. I feel that our armed forces have been placed in what continues a very difficult and dangerous situation for political gain rather than truly for humanitarian effort. However my gripes are purely with the politicians and not those within the armed services of other organisations serving in Iraq, who deserve the full support of all in our nations.