BMW Performance & M3 parts question

[///M///M Good]

I'm getting close to being ready to buy a 135i. I was wanting to hold out for the M version, but I don't know that I want to wait a year only to have it be so low volume that I'd have to pay thousands over MSRP to get it (which I wouldn't do anyway). So I'm thinking of just getting the 135i and ordering the BMW Performance suspension w/ the car to get the full warranty on it. I guess my main question is about the M3 parts that have been recommended as improvements. How do they affect the warranty and getting it aligned? I realize BMW isn't likely to cover any M3 parts you add to a 1 series, but has anyone had any problems getting other suspension-related problems addressed under warranty? Will BMW no longer align the car under the 4 yr service agreement? Any other issues? Any advice from real experience would be appreciated.

[kirby135i]

i didnt think alignment was part of maint.

[onefastman]

I would get the 135i, get it used with low miles and save a bunch too. The 1m is supposed to be 15,000 euros over the 135i price which is A LOT.

If you care about your warranty get your choice of exhaust (not dp's), fmic (wont look for it so your fine there), wavetrac lsd, kw suspension (bmw performance stuff is just ok), m3 front control arms and sub frame bushings, and what ever else suits your fancy.

If you dont mind a little risk then add a tune to that. It can be removed and all codes cleared so you will be safe there as long as you follow directions.


As far as all suspension mods, they wont be covered under warranty but I have never heard of anything failing.

[timhatimay]

I've had the M3 front control arms and sway bar for about 7k miles so far and no real problems to report (knock on wood). No noise or uncomfortable ride either. I did like the modifications, and the sway bar keeps the roll down quite a bit. The other bits help take some slop out of the stock suspension bushings, and you can feel a noticeable difference in feedback and precision with the road. With all of these mods I did notice a slight decrease in understeer as well, but it was definitely still there when pushed. These are BMW parts so I doubt they would cause any major problems (even though they weren't designed specifically for the e82). Plenty of people have been using them for a long time with no issues I've heard of. However, if something would happen and it could be attributed to the control arms, they probably could use this as an excuse to deny that warranty work (or at least try). The M3 wishbones will affect the alignment drastically, and the camber will be increased about .5-.7* negative, and the toe will thus be changed with it. I don't know if the dealer would align it to your custom specs, so if you are looking for something a little more aggressive than the stock alignment specifications, I would take it to a reputable local race shop.

I just installed the BMW Performance Suspension this weekend, but I also did camber plates, shock mounts, light wheels, and better tires, so it is hard for me to pinpoint where the improvements came from. I can say that if you are looking for a daily driven car that is comfortable yet handles great I would recommend this suspension. Its not the most hardcore set-up and you don't have the adjustability of coilovers, but it rides great and so far is a significant improvement over stock sports suspension. It is very flat in corners and changes direction well. It is more firm certainly, but not uncomfortably so. I haven't got to auto-x with it yet, but on the street is a great improvement in handling, while maintaining a good ride (in typical German fashion)...I hope this helps a bit.

Tim

[///M///M Good]

Thanks Tim.

Have you had it back to the dealership service department since installing the M3 parts and, if so, what did they say? Also, how hard is it to find a shop to do the alignments and how did you decide what specs to use?

Brian

[Dackelone]

Q: for those who have done the M bits... how is the steering feedback? Do you get any "kickback" or "bump steer" when you go over bumps in a turn? Does the car feel any less "nervous" at really high speeds?

The main thing I don't like about the stock suspension is how weird it feels when you really start to push it. Like from 7/10's onwards. I think its the OE progressive springs and soft bushings that make it feel that way.

I think what Tim has done is teh right way to go for a street car. I want to go that route too.

[AussieRacer]

Tramlines a little bit more. I wouldn't say bumpsteer, as that is something quite different. Also you get more road noise coming into the cabin, plus it adds a vibration or two...

But....feedback is heaps better and understeer (I don't track this car) is eliminated in daily dry conditions. Turn-in is just brilliant, as is the precision of steering inputs.

[timhatimay]

Originally Posted by ///M///M Good

Thanks Tim.

Have you had it back to the dealership service department since installing the M3 parts and, if so, what did they say? Also, how hard is it to find a shop to do the alignments and how did you decide what specs to use?

Brian

I've had the car in for regular maintenance and an unrelated service with no problems. Unless it is in for suspension work I doubt they will even notice.

Ask on regional area here if anyone knows a shop or go check out another forum for evo, sti, etc. Any good shop will discuss what kind of specs are best for your driving style. I also wore out the shoulders on my tires so I wanted a little additional camber. With the m3 control arms I would max it out because you will probably only get around -1.25*. depending on track, auto-x, street driving you can see what is good for you. I also did lots of research on this site based on what others were running.

Tim

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by ///M///M Good

Also, how hard is it to find a shop to do the alignments and how did you decide what specs to use?

My two cents: Take your car to a Dinan dealer for alignment. Ask them to max the front camber and set the rest to Dinan Stage 1, 2 or 3 specs depending on how aggressive you want it.

[///M///M Good]

Originally Posted by GaryS

My two cents: Take your car to a Dinan dealer for alignment. Ask them to max the front camber and set the rest to Dinan Stage 1, 2 or 3 specs depending on how aggressive you want it.

Not really an option, no Dinan dealers in the Jacksonville area. I think Gainesville is the closest - and that's a bit of a drive to just go for an alignment.

[michifan]

Originally Posted by ///M///M Good

Not really an option, no Dinan dealers in the Jacksonville area. I think Gainesville is the closest - and that's a bit of a drive to just go for an alignment.

There is one in Orlando (Winter Park).

[///M///M Good]

Originally Posted by michifan

There is one in Orlando (Winter Park).

3 hrs. minimum round trip for an alignment?

[timhatimay]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Q: for those who have done the M bits... how is the steering feedback? Do you get any "kickback" or "bump steer" when you go over bumps in a turn? Does the car feel any less "nervous" at really high speeds?

The main thing I don't like about the stock suspension is how weird it feels when you really start to push it. Like from 7/10's onwards. I think its the OE progressive springs and soft bushings that make it feel that way.

I think what Tim has done is teh right way to go for a street car. I want to go that route too.

The steering feedback is very good with the M3 front control arms. At auto-x and on the street I feel very connected to what the front tires are doing. The steering input also feels much better, and reacts quickly and precisely to your requests.

Sometimes it is possible that a abrupt bump may cause some more movement in the wheel, but it is minimal. And greater connection to the road and steering does mean you will get some more road feeling in the wheel including when the road is bad.

The car felt no more nervous at high speeds than stock. With the M3 parts I didn't have any noticeable increase in tram-lining or anything else either. Now running -2.0* on very textured roads I can feel the car follow the road somewhat, but it is very minor. And at high speed with the BMW Perf. suspension, that nervousness is greatly improved over stock. The float feeling is much less, and the car feels way more confident at Highway+ speeds.

Haven't got the push the car past probably 7/10 yet, because I can't push it that hard on the street, but the setup as a whole inspires more confidence in the car's abilities. I have noticed I can take some turns 10-15 mph faster without feeling out of control (not pushing the car, sliding, racing, etc...just driving quickly around a nice off ramp turn).

Also, if you get the M3 parts installed I would not recommend driving farther than 15 minutes to the alignment! Even that (for me) was totally scary, and I had to have someone follow behind me so I could go slow enough. The alignment will be way out. NTB (yes I took my car to NTB) put the car on the alignment machine and once they looked at the current values turned me away and said they felt it was unsafe to drive and I should take it to the dealer...it was too far out of spec. I would suggest adjusting the toe out some using a DIY method just to get it ballparked and drivable if you have to go any distance for the alignment. Like I said, any good race/speed shop can give you specs based on your driving habits...that is probably the best route to go. There has to be a decent shop in your area somewhere! Otherwise I'm sure the knowledgeable people on here can give a good recommendation if you know how you will drive the car (street miles, track time, driving style, etc.).

Tim

PS - NTB was so surprised that someone brought a brand new BMW in that they compared the 135i to an Aston Martin. NTB has mounted my tires a couple times now though, and done a great job I must say. In my defense, my logic was that: they do so many alignments and wheel mounting that this is a very routine task for them, and should thus be quite competent.

[///M///M Good]

So, no one has had any warranty or maintenance issues after having M3 suspension pieces installed on their cars?

[thez99]

Originally Posted by timhatimay

The steering feedback is very good with the M3 front control arms. At auto-x and on the street I feel very connected to what the front tires are doing. The steering input also feels much better, and reacts quickly and precisely to your requests.

Sometimes it is possible that a abrupt bump may cause some more movement in the wheel, but it is minimal. And greater connection to the road and steering does mean you will get some more road feeling in the wheel including when the road is bad.

The car felt no more nervous at high speeds than stock. With the M3 parts I didn't have any noticeable increase in tram-lining or anything else either. Now running -2.0* on very textured roads I can feel the car follow the road somewhat, but it is very minor. And at high speed with the BMW Perf. suspension, that nervousness is greatly improved over stock. The float feeling is much less, and the car feels way more confident at Highway+ speeds.

Haven't got the push the car past probably 7/10 yet, because I can't push it that hard on the street, but the setup as a whole inspires more confidence in the car's abilities. I have noticed I can take some turns 10-15 mph faster without feeling out of control (not pushing the car, sliding, racing, etc...just driving quickly around a nice off ramp turn).

Also, if you get the M3 parts installed I would not recommend driving farther than 15 minutes to the alignment! Even that (for me) was totally scary, and I had to have someone follow behind me so I could go slow enough. The alignment will be way out. NTB (yes I took my car to NTB) put the car on the alignment machine and once they looked at the current values turned me away and said they felt it was unsafe to drive and I should take it to the dealer...it was too far out of spec. I would suggest adjusting the toe out some using a DIY method just to get it ballparked and drivable if you have to go any distance for the alignment. Like I said, any good race/speed shop can give you specs based on your driving habits...that is probably the best route to go. There has to be a decent shop in your area somewhere! Otherwise I'm sure the knowledgeable people on here can give a good recommendation if you know how you will drive the car (street miles, track time, driving style, etc.).

Tim

PS - NTB was so surprised that someone brought a brand new BMW in that they compared the 135i to an Aston Martin. NTB has mounted my tires a couple times now though, and done a great job I must say. In my defense, my logic was that: they do so many alignments and wheel mounting that this is a very routine task for them, and should thus be quite competent.

So they turned you away without correcting your alignment?? That sounds bogus...

So where did you finally get your alignment done?

I mean if I would have the m3 front bits with the sway bar installed, I wouldnt wanna hafta worry about someone not being able to align the car..

Is there really a specific alignment spec you should run after doing these susp mods? Cuz honestly I have no clue on the spec numbers for camber, toe, etc. I would just hope my shop would know wtf they are doing

[nordique14]

front camber is not adjustable. You get what you get up front (unless you have adjustable camber plates). Same goes for caster. Only toe is adjustable up front. You will want to run 0 to 1/8" toe in.

The rear has adjustable camber and toe. Run about -1.5* camber and 1/8" toe in. If you want the rear to rotate a little better (i.e. less grip) then go with -1.0 and 0 toe.

[timhatimay]

Originally Posted by thez99

So they turned you away without correcting your alignment?? That sounds bogus...

So where did you finally get your alignment done?

I mean if I would have the m3 front bits with the sway bar installed, I wouldnt wanna hafta worry about someone not being able to align the car..

Is there really a specific alignment spec you should run after doing these susp mods? Cuz honestly I have no clue on the spec numbers for camber, toe, etc. I would just hope my shop would know wtf they are doing

I'm not sure what sounds bogus about it, but they did not want to touch it because of "aftermarket" items added to the suspension (i.e. the M3 arms), and they said I should take it to the dealer. They are used to performing alignments on stock cars to the specs listed in the computer, not custom specifications for modified european cars. Because I was in a tight spot due to other constraints, I went to a family member's garage, and he corrected the alignment for me on his rack (a computerized hunter machine). After I installed my performance suspension I took the car to Pete's European techniques, who specializes in track cars, european cars, and BMWs. Pete was very helpful in finding the settings I wanted.

I also spoke with a speed shop in NYC (Camber Toe), who were very helpful and although I intended to get my alignment done there, due to various circumstances I couldn't and had to go to Pete's. Both are great shops BTW. Moral of the story, as I mentioned in just about every post in this thread, any proper european specialty or speed shop in your area (I'm sure there are a few) should be able to perform an alignment to the specs you want. With a good/knowledgeable shop (like the two I mentioned above), they can talk to you about the benefits of each adjustment, and also help guide you to the proper alignment specs based on your driving.

The stock specs will be in most any alignment machine, so if you want the stock specs they will have them. One of the benefits of the M3 wishbones is the added camber, so probably you would want to leave this more negative than stock if this is your goal. If you don't want to mess with the settings or care about the camber in the front, you may want to reconsider the wishbones.

The front camber is adjustable a slight amount. Especially when the alignment pin is drilled out (or removed). Like mentioned many of the other settings are adjustable on the car as well. The stock BMW runs almost -1.8* in the rear I believe, and about -.25 in the front camber. For reference my car was set up with -1* i the front and I shredded the outside shoulder of my tires in auto-x. With my newly installed modifications, I have -2.0* in the front and -1.8* in the rear. Will see how this changes after some more aggressive driving behind the wheel, and if there is any major uneven tire wear.

Tim

[AussieRacer]

Originally Posted by nordique14

front camber is not adjustable. You get what you get up front (unless you have adjustable camber plates). Same goes for caster. Only toe is adjustable up front. You will want to run 0 to 1/8" toe in.

The rear has adjustable camber and toe. Run about -1.5* camber and 1/8" toe in. If you want the rear to rotate a little better (i.e. less grip) then go with -1.0 and 0 toe.

Front camber is adjustable on a stock car. You just need to remove the alignment centering pin. THere just isn't much adjustment with the stock top mount. BMW's manuals even explain how to remove the pin.

[nordique14]

Originally Posted by AussieRacer

Front camber is adjustable on a stock car. You just need to remove the alignment centering pin. THere just isn't much adjustment with the stock top mount. BMW's manuals even explain how to remove the pin.

You are correct. When said the front was not adjustable I meant it was not adjustable like the rears are where you can adjust by full degrees and not just 2/10ths of a degree. To me only being able to change camber by 0.2 is not "adjustable".

[CarForHire]

I would wait.