Starting - Idle issues

[Mnime]

I hope someone can help with some insight to an issue I am having on my car.

I have a starter issue that has been going on for over a year now. The car will ALWAYS start but it cranks a little before firing up. It is very random as well. It usually happens after sitting for a while but not every time and not always to the same degree. It might take 3 seconds to fire up once and then just a slight hesitation the next time. Others it fires right up as it should and then some times it will fire right off but then takes a second or two of rough idle until it levels off to normal. All this is pretty quick but it is noticable. If the car is on level ground and sits for some time it is hit and miss on if it will occur but if parked on an incline for 30 min it will occur to some degree almost every time.

It has been in the shop 4 times now in the last year and never gets fixed. The first two visits I was told we can't recreate the issue. On the 3rd visit, I was told the DME was turning off the fuel pump for some reason and the DME was flashed for the first time. I got home and it happened again. On the 4th visit the SM drove home one night and finally was able to recreate the rough idle at start up but not the starting issue (several cranks before firing up) from what I was told. This prompted the HPFP to be changed and a reflash of the DME again. Hoping this was fixed, I got home and parked the car and when I went out for dinner it still had the same issues.

This is very annoying!!!

My car has 36K miles. Mods are N55 mids, Meisterschaft axle back, AFE CAI, ER charge pipe, and Wagner intercooler. I always run 93 oct. gas and have tried gas/injector cleaners but they did nothing.

Anyone with any suggestions on other issues or experiencing the same thing?

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by Mnime

I hope someone can help with some insight to an issue I am having on my car.

I have a starter issue that has been going on for over a year now. The car will ALWAYS start but it cranks a little before firing up. It is very random as well. It usually happens after sitting for a while but not every time and not always to the same degree. It might take 3 seconds to fire up once and then just a slight hesitation the next time. Others it fires right up as it should and then some times it will fire right off but then takes a second or two of rough idle until it levels off to normal. All this is pretty quick but it is noticable. If the car is on level ground and sits for some time it is hit and miss on if it will occur but if parked on an incline for 30 min it will occur to some degree almost every time.

It has been in the shop 4 times now in the last year and never gets fixed. The first two visits I was told we can't recreate the issue. On the 3rd visit, I was told the DME was turning off the fuel pump for some reason and the DME was flashed for the first time. I got home and it happened again. On the 4th visit the SM drove home one night and finally was able to recreate the rough idle at start up but not the starting issue (several cranks before firing up) from what I was told. This prompted the HPFP to be changed and a reflash of the DME again. Hoping this was fixed, I got home and parked the car and when I went out for dinner it still had the same issues.

This is very annoying!!!

My car has 36K miles. Mods are N55 mids, Meisterschaft axle back, AFE CAI, ER charge pipe, and Wagner intercooler. I always run 93 oct. gas and have tried gas/injector cleaners but they did nothing.

Anyone with any suggestions on other issues or experiencing the same thing?

i have the exact same issue. I think the rough idle is sort of 'normal' in these cars from what i've read in my search. The prolonged starting crank worries me for a fuel pump issue----however last time i took it in for service they thoroughly checked the fuel pump and its pressures and found it to be completely normal......my prolonged crank DOES seem to be associated with if i leave the A/C on when i park the car. When the A/C is left on and restarts with the A/C on i get the prolonged cranking. I have never had the prolonged crank with the A/C *off*.....which is strange.

am following this thread for sure, as i've been worried about it too. Mine happens once every 20 cranks or something...not that often and impossible to recreate at the dealer just like every other issue!! lol

[JM35]

No issues with the battery, plugs, coils?

[Mnime]

Well they tell me everything checks out but you know how that goes. They also told me that my fuel pump pressures were fine too but they ended up replacing it on the last go around.

Interesting about the AC. I'll test that out but I am pretty sure I have had the issue happen just as frequently with the AC in the off position as I have with it on.

The one thing I did notice when the HPFP was replaces is there seems to be less lag in throttle response during normal driving. But I hate to say that could just be me noticing power after driving an X1 for a week.

However, when this first started occurring I did find that I could press the gas before starting and it would fire. Times when I didn't press the gas it would have the slower crank or rough idle for a few moments. But then that trick seemed to quit working.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by Mnime

Well they tell me everything checks out but you know how that goes. They also told me that my fuel pump pressures were fine too but they ended up replacing it on the last go around.

Interesting about the AC. I'll test that out but I am pretty sure I have had the issue happen just as frequently with the AC in the off position as I have with it on.

The one thing I did notice when the HPFP was replaces is there seems to be less lag in throttle response during normal driving. But I hate to say that could just be me noticing power after driving an X1 for a week.

However, when this first started occurring I did find that I could press the gas before starting and it would fire. Times when I didn't press the gas it would have the slower crank or rough idle for a few moments. But then that trick seemed to quit working.

so they replaced your fuel pump and you are still having the issues right? So it probably wasn't the fuel pump at all?

i definitely have noticed the A/C connection, HOWEVER these days i make it a point to shut the AC off prior to turning the car off so i can't be sure if it would happen without the AC. Sometimes i forget and it just so happens whenever i have a prolonged crank i find i forgot to turn the AC off.

I'm also wondering if this could be a starter connection issue? hmm...

am definitely interested to know what you find out...if i find out anything else will let you know.

[Mnime]

yes replaced the fuel pump and still have issues. i have also wondered about a starter connection or even a loose fuse. It will probably turn out to be some .10 part/fix.

[Plautos]

I solved my problem replacing a bad injector.

Ask someone to watch the exhaust when you start the engine... if some black smoke appears, it is quite sure you have a bad injector.

[Mnime]

Originally Posted by Plautos

I solved my problem replacing a bad injector.

Ask someone to watch the exhaust when you start the engine... if some black smoke appears, it is quite sure you have a bad injector.

Did you get any codes thrown? I would think it would throw a code and the dealer could determine this. But I am pretty sure I get a puff when I start up. I catch a glimps every now and then out my side mirror backing out of the garage.

Thanks for the tip. I will have someone check for sure and take that piece into the dealer as well.

[Plautos]

That´s the problem... no codes, just symptoms.
The engine take more time to start, the idle is irregular but not always, some black smoke on the exhaust only when starting the engine.

Check the spark plugs, it will tell which cylinder or cylinders have the bad injector.

Originally Posted by Mnime

Did you get any codes thrown? I would think it would throw a code and the dealer could determine this. But I am pretty sure I get a puff when I start up. I catch a glimps every now and then out my side mirror backing out of the garage.

Thanks for the tip. I will have someone check for sure and take that piece into the dealer as well.

[Mnime]

Did a video of the start up after work today. Puff of smoke only when starting.

[Sparks1M]

Shouldn't be an issue for this, but have you tried a 98 octane fuel? From memory min recommended is 96, but shouldn't cause this problem.

[IEDEI]

just happened to me this morning....no AC on; there goes that theory! ha

[Dackelone]

Long cold start cranks, certainly sound like a bad HPFP to me. And just because you had it replaced doesn't mean it's a good part. Afterall I believe the HPFP's are rebuilt units. And there were several versions of the HPFP. Even in the last year there is a new version.

You should also have the fuel line pressure switch replace next to the HPFP. Its on the fuel line that feeds the pump. The switch is like $100 part.

As for new SW... I hope BMW doesn't load the same SW they have for 135i's that keeps the wastegates open(until 3.5K rpms) and kills throttle response. This sw also has a very smooth idle and quiets the injector(dieseling) noise while the engine is running - which is why I believe BMW NA uses it to prevent customer complaints.

Looking at the injectors is also a good idea.

Another thought is that the EWS immobilizer is kicking in. There is a chip in the key fob and the car has to see the right code. IF it doesn't the DME will not let the engine start.

I had this problem on my 135i twice. It threw a code though, but later that code erased itself. I realized my problem was I was putting the key fob into the slot(I don't have CA on my car) too quickly and THEN trying to start the car. I just wait half a second before hitting the start button.

Dackel

[Snertz]

Might also want to have the LPFP checked out as well.

[Mnime]

thanks for all the tips guys. i'm working on scheduling it with a different dealership next week.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Mnime

They also told me that my fuel pump pressures were fine too but they ended up replacing it on the last go around.

About HPFP issues: see issue #5a of the 1M issues log sticky:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...27&postcount=1

[Mnime]

Hello All... So after taking my car to a different dealership and giving them some tech info that I got from the BMWCCA advisor (Robert Charlson) and from you guys...here is the rest of the story.

2 injectors leaking - solution = 6 new injectors being installed and new plugs.
Fractured valve cover was also found and a replacement has been ordered.
ALL done as warranty coverage.

The SA advised that the fractured valve cover was a known issue on M cars but I have never heard this. He said they sometimes come from the factory where they were over torq'd and in other cases hard driving will result in the issue. Regardless, it is getting fixed and I am a happy camper now. Car is due back next week as they are waiting on some parts.

Thanks you all for your input!

[flzrider]

Originally Posted by Mnime

Hello All... So after taking my car to a different dealership and giving them some tech info that I got from the BMWCCA advisor (Robert Charlson) and from you guys...here is the rest of the story.

2 injectors leaking - solution = 6 new injectors being installed and new plugs.
Fractured valve cover was also found and a replacement has been ordered.
ALL done as warranty coverage.

The SA advised that the fractured valve cover was a known issue on M cars but I have never heard this. He said they sometimes come from the factory where they were over torq'd and in other cases hard driving will result in the issue. Regardless, it is getting fixed and I am a happy camper now. Car is due back next week as they are waiting on some parts.

Thanks you all for your input!

Wow. Those seem like fairly obvious failures. They should've been caught before.

Keep us updated on whether it actually fixes your issues.

[Mnime]

I agree Flzrider!

[Artemis]

Added to the 1M issues log sticky.

Did not create a separate category but added it to issue #5a (power loss), though with the notification "starting/idle issues":
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...27&postcount=1

[Jay-K]

might make me sound stupid,
but sometimes simple things create problems as well..
for your case first think pop to my mind is battery..

Hope this helps.

[Mnime]

Battery was already checked out and I had already had the recall work done.
It is injectors and spark....