Dealer Mark up?

[Fast Kiwi]

wow, you make out like there crooks?? theres a simple way to stop from getting any of those options.. Just say no Kiddies. its not like they are part of the m.s.r.p after all..

[Van1]

Originally Posted by Fast kiwi

wow, you make out like there crooks?? theres a simple way to stop from getting any of those options.. Just say no Kiddies. its not like they are part of the m.s.r.p after all..

No, not part of MSRP, but i bet that more than one dealer out there is going to pull this sort of thing with in stock cars. You are going to have to spend time trying to get them down on their add ons before you can cut into the MSRP of the car itself. Believe me, my wife and I were set to buy a Mini Cooper S around the '02, '03 timeframe, but the dealer markups in SoCal were $5000-7000 with these add-ons. This happens with any hot new car.

[Fast Kiwi]

normally that type of "add on" is done at time of write up and not before the nego but its a pretty simple thing to avoid by saying NO.. and just focusing on the price of the car.. but your right, im sure there are plenty pushy finance guys/girls out there that may not take no the first few times.. but then, there are a number of products they sell that are really good.. wheel and tire is a must imo..

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by Fast kiwi

normally that type of "add on" is done at time of write up and not before the nego but its a pretty simple thing to avoid by saying NO

You clearly haven't tried to buy a car in California. The dealer adds a sticker onto the window of every car listing a 5,000 dollar "market adjustment" (or they can get really coy and say something like "dealer preparation" to make it seem like you are getting something for that 5 grand). It is not negotiable unless you go to another dealer. Simply saying NO will only get you laughed at.

I myself was looking at a 2002-2003 MINI Cooper S in SoCal and fortunately found a dealer that was not marking up their cars. It wasn't the right time for me, but you can almost always find someone who is not marking up the car.

[Van1]

Thanks, MPower, you said it much better than I. Yes, this was my experience in SoCal with the Mini Cooper S. Same with the '03 Lincoln Aviator which was marked up at least $5k in SoCal at the time. Dealers wouldn't even let us test drive one. I was interested but my wife and I bought a '03 Mercedes Benz ML500 instead at $3k below MSRP which was cheaper than the Ford. Ironic that the Aviator is now defunct. Ford should thank their dealers for that. But I don't think the 135i will be any different. Even last year when I went into the BMW dealer in Omaha, NE, there were some paint protection mark ups on the new X5. There is a separate sticker on the window for these items. They are different than the items that the finance guys will try to get you with. I went and bought a VW Touareg V10 TDI for a significant discount instead. And I can now rip the engine block out of the X5 at idle with my Treg

[Fast Kiwi]

Originally Posted by MPower

You clearly haven't tried to buy a car in California. The dealer adds a sticker onto the window of every car listing a 5,000 dollar "market adjustment" (or they can get really coy and say something like "dealer preparation" to make it seem like you are getting something for that 5 grand). It is not negotiable unless you go to another dealer. Simply saying NO will only get you laughed at.

I myself was looking at a 2002-2003 MINI Cooper S in SoCal and fortunately found a dealer that was not marking up their cars. It wasn't the right time for me, but you can almost always find someone who is not marking up the car.

Ahhh you mean an ademdem.. ok well yes this is harder to over come your right, unless say perhaps its removable (like say a ski rack, at no cost i might add) then you can have it removed but once its on the car yes.. this is shifty..

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by Fast kiwi

Ahhh you mean an ademdem..

Yes, I mean an addendum.

Just a tip... :wink:

[Fast Kiwi]

Originally Posted by MPower

Yes, I mean an addendum.

Just a tip... :wink:

thanks for the spelling tip.. get used to it.. I cant spell anything..

[atr_hugo]

Well, actually, you did a commendable job on 'anything'. (Skewering ambiguities free of charge since 1970. ; -)

[krassanova]

I wanted to expand a bit on what happened with the MINI, and the excessive dealer "market adjustments." Most likely, the same thing is going to happen with the 1-series since. This is going to be an extremely popular car, and supply will not meet the initial demand. If you think your sweet shiny suit wearing car salesman wouldn't do this to you, remember this: the same guys that were gouging us during the MINI craze will now be selling the 1-series.

There was one dealership in So Cal that did not add a market adjustment...they sold only for MSRP. That was Long Beach MINI/BMW, and then South Bay was built and they did the same thing. If you didn't want to pay a premium, you could buy a car off the lot at Long Beach (provided one was available) or you could get in line and place an order and wait six months.

If you wanted the car faster than that, you went to a different dealership and paid a premium.

This happened in other parts of the country too...but the majority of people in other parts of the country were typically forced to pay mark-ups. Most areas of the country don't have several BMW dealerships located within close proximity of each other, so these dealers would charge whatever they wanted for the car.

Eventually, people went online and found dealerships 2000 miles away from them, ordered the car and had it shipped to them, or flew to the dealership to drive it home.

I think we can expect a similar situation with the 1-series. I believe BMW understands this very well, and it is the reason they created this car. When this car comes out, you aren't gonna be able to get this car under MSRP without knowing or blowing someone. If you think differently, then place a wager with me...if I get enough suckers to take that bet they can pay for my new car.

[imported_MPower]

krassanova, while your comments about MINIs is completely correct (in fact, in 2003, I was going to buy from Long Beach as well... and was going to buy from them this year until I learned they were awful to work with), I don't think you are going to see the same problems at the same degree as the MINI. The 1er should be popular, no doubt, but the MINI was a very rare circumstance and I don't see demand for the 1er being that high. Personally, I do not think it will not be difficult to get the car at MSRP, even in SoCal. But, we shall see.

[gbent]

Originally Posted by MPower

krassanova, while your comments about MINIs is completely correct (in fact, in 2003, I was going to buy from Long Beach as well... and was going to buy from them this year until I learned they were awful to work with), I don't think you are going to see the same problems at the same degree as the MINI. The 1er should be popular, no doubt, but the MINI was a very rare circumstance and I don't see demand for the 1er being that high. Personally, I do not think it will not be difficult to get the car at MSRP, even in SoCal. But, we shall see.

+1

I think the 128i/135i will be a little hard to get at the very beginning, but the overall market for smallish sports coupes is not that great, so I think the supply will quickly catch up to the demand.:wink:

[krassanova]

Originally Posted by MPower

krassanova, while your comments about MINIs is completely correct (in fact, in 2003, I was going to buy from Long Beach as well... and was going to buy from them this year until I learned they were awful to work with), I don't think you are going to see the same problems at the same degree as the MINI. The 1er should be popular, no doubt, but the MINI was a very rare circumstance and I don't see demand for the 1er being that high. Personally, I do not think it will not be difficult to get the car at MSRP, even in SoCal. But, we shall see.

We'll see. I just think the designed this car really well for the price. I think it suits a big demographic. BMW learned how to keep the fires stoked for a long time with the MINI...I think they aim to do the same thing with the 1.

[135SF]

Originally Posted by MPower

krassanova, while your comments about MINIs is completely correct (in fact, in 2003, I was going to buy from Long Beach as well... and was going to buy from them this year until I learned they were awful to work with), I don't think you are going to see the same problems at the same degree as the MINI. The 1er should be popular, no doubt, but the MINI was a very rare circumstance and I don't see demand for the 1er being that high. Personally, I do not think it will not be difficult to get the car at MSRP, even in SoCal. But, we shall see.

Pretty much agree with MPower. Price difference between the two cars would make the 1er easier to acquire than the mini.Demand for the mini (when it first came out ) is more (because of the price) than the 1er.I believe that supply for the 1er will be more than enough to fill up the demand.

[Fast Kiwi]

Originally Posted by atr_hugo

Well, actually, you did a commendable job on 'anything'. (Skewering ambiguities free of charge since 1970. ; -)

man where's the love in here???

[krassanova]

Originally Posted by 135SF

Pretty much agree with MPower. Price difference between the two cars would make the 1er easier to acquire than the mini.Demand for the mini (when it first came out ) is more (because of the price) than the 1er.I believe that supply for the 1er will be more than enough to fill up the demand.

Okay, how come nobody has placed a wager with me yet? :iono:

[1ster]

Originally Posted by 135SF

I believe that supply for the 1er will be more than enough to fill up the demand.

Based on what? History has shown that new, hot performance cars remain in high demand for some time (usually a year or two) after their release, and that discounts are hard to get. Why would the 1er be any different, especially with BMW limiting supply to 20,000 units for the US?

I'm not saying we'll see massive gouging, but MSRP seems likely for some time. Nobody has provided a shred of reasoning to convince me otherwise.

[krassanova]

Originally Posted by 1ster

Based on what? History has shown that new, hot performance cars remain in high demand for some time (usually a year or two) after their release, and that discounts are hard to get. Why would the 1er be any different, especially with BMW limiting supply to 20,000 units for the US?

Exactly.

Originally Posted by 1ster

I'm not saying we'll see massive gouging, but MSRP seems likely for some time. Nobody has provided a shred of reasoning to convince me otherwise.

I believe that getting the car at MSRP at most dealerships is optimistic. At least for the initial release, and then for several months after that. Some dealerships won't gouge you, but I don't think they will be the norm.

At least your optimism is reasonable. Some of the stuff I've read on here can only be done at Pollyanna BMW, located just south of Narnia.

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by 1ster

I'm not saying we'll see massive gouging, but MSRP seems likely for some time.

I think most people will agree with that, including me. You will struggle to find discounts, but I don't think it is unreasonable to think that you will be able to get the car at MSRP. You might have to shop around, but it shouldn't be too difficult.

[Fast Kiwi]

you WILL get MSRP at some dealerships.. I say this knowing my dealership will NOT mark up there allocation of 1 series cars..

[1ster]

Originally Posted by 1ster

I'm not saying we'll see massive gouging, but MSRP seems likely for some time.

I'm quoting myself here to point out that I'm on the same page with the last few posters.

[Fast Kiwi]

nice.. ^^^