[akhbhaat]

255 hp would be acceptable if the E90 wasn't so damn overweight. That engine in my 3100 lb 323i with a nice 3.38 limited slip rear end would make for a bit of fun.

If BMW wants to keep making their cars larger and heavier, they're going to have to appease us with more power. I'd actually rather they cut back on weight instead of giving us more power, but power is the next best thing and it can be a lot of fun in its own right.

And please don't drag out the "You don't have to have power to be fast," line. Unless you're all Bill Auberlen clones, you should know full well that extra power (within reason, of course) has bailed out many a novice driver from his own bad lines.

[sdorn]

Horsepower is cheap. BMW would have greater market share if they put more of it in their cars. Their cars are great packages that drive great and handle great, but until you get up to around 800hp or so, the more horsepower the better.

[mundo74]

I know that we are bracing ourselves for a price increase if and when the 335i comes along. Some are hoping for modest <$4K, but I thing it should cost nothing! Really, the Japs do it. In the past they did charge $3K premium for the E46 330i, and I believe they will do it again. It comes all down to expectation and we can live with BMW doing this but if Honda charges $3K for 25 HP we would go ballistic.

[ryan330]

How many have you have actually dyno's your cars to see what the actual output of your engine is? I would be surprised if it isn't above 255hp for the 330.

[RGRAY]

Originally Posted by mundo74

I know that we are bracing ourselves for a price increase if and when the 335i comes along. Some are hoping for modest <$4K,...

Hope all you want, but you're looking at $5,000+.

[oilbelcher]

BMW HP numbers probably are conservative vs. other manufacturers, and maybe it is above 255 HP at 6000 RPM as others measure it. But to me, the torque definitely felt lower vs others at low/mid RPMs. Hi HP at hi RPMs are only useful if you operate there, like on the racetrack or open highway.

[BMW F22]

All I know is that even though im happy with 255hp, more is always appreciated.

[lhoboy8]

Originally Posted by BMWE90

even though BMW is about the entire package, we all know that many people didnt go with BMW simply because it has less HP than its competitors. Sad but true, I can safely assume that some of us (those that say BMW is about the entire package) are saying that only to go along with others because they know their cars dont have as much HP as other competitors. And when BMW finally releases a 3 series that has more than, or at least equal to its competition, those people will start bragging about how many HP their bimmers have. I will admit that I have no proof as no one is willing to admit this. But like I said, some of us are only trying to justify the "lack of HP" by saying BMWs are about the entire package.

uhhh, i think it's obvious that the "overall package" is what matters. Otherwise, most of these people who are saying these things "to go along with others" would not buy BMWs if HP was a primary concern. I don't think people are saying this stuff to justify purchasing a BMW because we all had the choice of purchasing an inferior Japanese car with higher HP. If not the "entire package" or handling, why else would someone buy a BMW, obviously all buyers are well aware of the lower HP..... I think your reasoning is backwards.

[aem]

Originally Posted by Imperial

like saosin said, it's the entire package that matters, not just the number of horses you're puttin out...

You need power and torque up there for times when you load the car up and want it to cruise comfortably. I would be dissappointed if i drive a nice car (any including BMWs) if it struggles to move with air con and fully loaded...

[Robin_NL]

Nice thread. How many people here go beyond 100mph?

Enough said

258BHP is sufficient in daily driving, but it lacks some torque but without the speedlimiter the 330i would go 270kmh. Fast enough for a sport saloon.

[MBChariot]

Trust me, HP is everything. Here in Germany the E90 with 255hp is plenty. Alot of hp is good for those straight short sprints but get on the autobahn with those same cars and watch an Opel 1.8 fly by you. BMW is a great car and doesn't need high hp numbers to sell automobiles. When you buy a BMW you know what you are getting and if you don't then you may need to look into another company.

[aem]

Originally Posted by lhoboy8

uhhh, i think it's obvious that the "overall package" is what matters. Otherwise, most of these people who are saying these things "to go along with others" would not buy BMWs if HP was a primary concern. I don't think people are saying this stuff to justify purchasing a BMW because we all had the choice of purchasing an inferior Japanese car with higher HP. If not the "entire package" or handling, why else would someone buy a BMW, obviously all buyers are well aware of the lower HP..... I think your reasoning is backwards.

I don't think his reasoning is backwards at all. I'm a valet attendant and i drive all cars cheap and expensive, slow and fast. I know what constitutes "overall package" and having driving many car, i can assure you BMW is not about "overall package". I mean if you buy an M3, M5 or M6 or the 7series, you would get that BUT for anything else..it's not. I would consider "Overall package" as everything not just power, looks etc... it's value for money as well, what the car has interms of standard accessories, built quality, reliability, technology, fuel consumption, power, looks, name etc... Lexus then comes to mind...

[stressdoc]

The US market is different than Euro, more specifically Germany, because of the autobahn. Speed is the ultimate luxury in Germany -- speed gives you time, perhaps the most valuable commodity. In the US we are speed limited. BMWs do not get you more time. Set the cruise control at 79 mph and settle back in your living room. Frankly, you might as well be in a Lexus. I think we delude ourselves in the same way that SUV owners do -- they envision trips into the mountains, conquering wild trails with bravado; we BMW fanatics fantasize about alpine switchbacks and autobahn sweepers flat out. But we all spend our time stuck in jams on I405 etc.

So the point of more HP in NA is not more speed, just short bursts of delerious glory. Practically speaking, what we (NA) really need is the 320d. And X5 2.0d. We would save ourselves and the world a lot of grief.

But we persist in our peculiar status arms races, or whatever it is that dumps the neurotransmitters into our brains that we call thrills. Guess that's why I want the 335i.

[mundo74]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

.

So the point of more HP in NA is not more speed, just short bursts of delerious glory. Practically speaking, what we (NA) really need is the 320d. And X5 2.0d. We would save ourselves and the world a lot of grief.

You are right, we in the US coud do well with the 320d and 330d, gobs of torque at low rpm. however, more HP is not a bad thing. Generally when a manufacturer ups his HP we hopefully get an equal dosage of torque.

[stressdoc]

I agree with the joys of torque from diesels comment. But what I had in mind was the economic, ecological, and political effects of 40mpg.

99% of our US driving is done in circumstances where we would feel no difference btw a 320d and a 335i. Guess we live (and spend!) for that 1%, even if it is mostly in our imaginations.

[mundo74]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

I agree with the joys of torque from diesels comment. But what I had in mind was the economic, ecological, and political effects of 40mpg.

99% of our US driving is done in circumstances where we would feel no difference btw a 320d and a 335i. Guess we live (and spend!) for that 1%, even if it is mostly in our imaginations.

What, We are Americans, none of that fuel ecomony and tree hugging gibbrish concerns us we need BIG V8's. Seriously a future war with China may be averted if we adapt deisels now to buy us time for alternatives. Give me a deisel anyday instead of that expensive and somewhat questionable reliability Hybrid drivetrain.

[thunderbirdsarego]

Originally Posted by mundo74

You are right, we in the US coud do well with the 320d and 330d, gobs of torque at low rpm. however, more HP is not a bad thing. Generally when a manufacturer ups his HP we hopefully get an equal dosage of torque.

Which is essentially what North American car manufacturers have been delivering in gobs for years. So maybe they are in touch with their consumers after all ?

I've driven a lot of rentals in my travels in Canada and the USA and am often amazed at the low down grunt some of some of the big V6's not to mention the V8's. They run out of steam pretty quick but not before the speed limit.

Canadian's are very law abiding and generally obey the posted speed limits. Our roads like US roads are generally wide and straight (though with fewer potholes). It is no surprise that people in North America gravitate towards Lexus and non European cars in general.

When I lived in the UK, roads were narrow, twisty and even the little one lane country roads allowed you to do 70 mph. You don't need a lot of horsepower to enjoy driving such twisties. Trips then were short, fun and swift. We never complained that we had to keep those little engines on the boil by flicking from gear to gear - THAT was what driving was all about.

[sdorn]

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

Nice thread. How many people here go beyond 100mph?

Enough said

Horsepower has absolutely nothing to do with going over 100mph. It only has to do with how fast you get to 100mph.