SuperSprint Header Install/Review

[andrey_gta]

Originally Posted by Fume

It seems like these headers don't have cats on them like the stock headers. Does the stock system have another set of cats in the mid pipes?

Also, does anyone know if Evolve can remove the CEL on a N51 engine? It seems to me it's worth waiting to see the results of their experiments with tuning the N51 (mentioned in another thread) before attempting to do this mod, am I right? Especially if I need to get a tune to remove the CEL.

Yes 128i with any engine has midpipe cats

Evolve should be able to remove the cel by tuning it down, but not off, even if their n51 tune isn't yet tested or annoucned

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by andrey_gta

Yes 128i with any engine has midpipe cats

Evolve should be able to remove the cel by tuning it down, but not off, even if their n51 tune isn't yet tested or annoucned

Precisely. Their ability to turn down O2 sensors is separate from N51 tuning, and all 128i have secondary cats.

[Fume]

Thanks andrey_gta and TheSt|G. I'm thinking I might just get the performance exhaust first since it's cheaper and it's something I want on my car eventually anyway. These super sprint headers are expensive but I don't want to skimp out on the quality of components on my car so I guess I'll have to start saving up.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by Fume

Thanks andrey_gta and TheSt|G. I'm thinking I might just get the performance exhaust first since it's cheaper and it's something I want on my car eventually anyway. These super sprint headers are expensive but I don't want to skimp out on the quality of components on my car so I guess I'll have to start saving up.

It really depends what you are looking for. For pure sound, the PE is a better deal, but as far as HP/dollar, the only thing that competes with headers is the DISA manifold.

[631twentyeighteye]

I wouldn't bother with the PE. the SS headers and the stock exhaust system will give you an excellent exhaust note and a reasonable volume without any drone, plus the performance benefits. Believe me, i went through the PE and two other axle backs before i went to headers and now i wish i just did headers in the first place without touching the rest of the exhaust.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by 631twentyeighteye

I wouldn't bother with the PE. the SS headers and the stock exhaust system will give you an excellent exhaust note and a reasonable volume without any drone, plus the performance benefits. Believe me, i went through the PE and two other axle backs before i went to headers and now i wish i just did headers in the first place without touching the rest of the exhaust.

Pure headers do sound really good, and gets you some excellent noise up front instead of just out the back:

[631twentyeighteye]

Header's definitely give the n52 an even more beautiful exhaust note, it's one of my favorite aspects about the n52. With my resonator delete i have a really raspy note that sounds like the e36's. I have plans of welding my stock resonator back in place, then putting the 135i muffler with the flap open.

[Taskmaster]

Any dynos yet?

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Any dynos yet?

Soonish, scheduling with some local friends for a dyno day.

[Fume]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

It really depends what you are looking for. For pure sound, the PE is a better deal, but as far as HP/dollar, the only thing that competes with headers is the DISA manifold.

That's true. But another thing is I don't really want to pay for an Evolve tune to just remove CEL from O2 sensors if I do get the supersprint headers. And I'll need the Evolve tune since I also don't particularly want to drive around with CEL light on as this is also my DD (I would like to be able to pass emissions test).

It seems like if I wait until Evolve gets out a real performance tune for an N51 engine, I'll be able to justify paying to get the Evolve tune for both performance benefits in addition to removing the CEL. Or am I missing something here?

Is the performance benefits of just the headers so good that it's worth spending money for both the headers + the tune required even if the tune doesn't give any performance benefits?

[631twentyeighteye]

The tune does give performance benefits, i'm not sure where you're getting that it isn't. It gives substantial improvement over the dips from the DISA valves switching over as well as improving mid range power and low end torque.


however, i'll let stig's dyno's settle this since i'm basing this off of my findings of euro 125i and 130i's.

[Fume]

Originally Posted by 631twentyeighteye

The tune does give performance benefits, i'm not sure where you're getting that it isn't. It gives substantial improvement over the dips from the DISA valves switching over as well as improving mid range power and low end torque.

Last I saw in the other thread, Evolve was just starting to experiment with the N51 engine tune (I think because they don't have those engines in Europe).

Talking about this thread: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=927489

[631twentyeighteye]

Ah yes i completely forgot you were talking about n51, my apologies! However, i would think that if evolve updated their n51 tune they would allow you to get the updated version, AA provided me with multiple stages of their tune so i could upgrade as i installed the parts.

[Taskmaster]

I would wait until there is something proven outthere. I've seen all of 1 Evolve dyno on these boards so far, and PLENTY of AA dynos.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

I would wait until there is something proven outthere. I've seen all of 1 Evolve dyno on these boards so far, and PLENTY of AA dynos.

Disagree based on broader experience with Evolve.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Disagree based on broader experience with Evolve.

If there is no dyno, then there is no objective measure on which to base this preference on.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

If there is no dyno, then there is no objective measure on which to base this preference on.

That's a bit like saying, "Well, I know the US military had no trouble defeating the military of Iraq twice, but I'm not sure how they would do against Syria's military because they have never fought".

I've seen Evolve tune first hand on a number of varied contemporary platforms to the N52. It would be the exception if they were not delivering at a similar level, and from first hand ownership, I see no reason to think that it is an exception.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

That's a bit like saying, "Well, I know the US military had no trouble defeating the military of Iraq twice, but I'm not sure how they would do against Syria's military because they have never fought".

I've seen Evolve tune first hand on a number of varied contemporary platforms to the N52. It would be the exception if they were not delivering at a similar level, and from first hand ownership, I see no reason to think that it is an exception.

I've also seen AA's work on different platforms (and I have an OE tune) Some are not as good as others.

AA's tune for the M54 lost power vs a Shark Injector, but AA's tunes on the N52 have been spot on. OE's tunes on the E55/C63 cars is shown to be the most comprehensive tunes, beating out Evolve, but according to one dyno here, they lost out to AA's tune because of an issue with pinging.

I'll believe it when I see it, but until then I avoid making definitive statements.

[cu260r6]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

I would wait until there is something proven outthere. I've seen all of 1 Evolve dyno on these boards so far, and PLENTY of AA dynos.

Agreed. Anyone that thinks a tune has more than a +/-1-2% variance compared to another tune is naive to the procedures aftermarket companies use to develop their products. There just are not enough variables to play with on our naturally aspirated, relatively small displacement, highly tuned motors to extract 10hp more than any other tuner. Anyone who has tuned a sportbike and been promised huge gains compared to another product figures this out quickly.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by cu260r6

Agreed. Anyone that thinks a tune has more than a +/-1-2% variance compared to another tune is naive to the procedures aftermarket companies use to develop their products. There just are not enough variables to play with on our naturally aspirated, relatively small displacement, highly tuned motors to extract 10hp more than any other tuner. Anyone who has tuned a sportbike and been promised huge gains compared to another product figures this out quickly.

Then you haven't been involved in the BMW tuning world long enough. For years the tunes for the E46 M3 were lucky to make stock power, let alone make power. Most of the "tunes" just changed the throttle mapping for the illusion of power(eg, BMS Powerbox for the N52). Evolve came along and posted their tune, claiming a 20hp gain. Almost everyone, and rightly so, assumed it was BS. A few people tried it fortunately, and found the gains to be real.

The difference was that while some were tweaking values for their tunes, Evolve was fundamentally rewriting the code behind the tune. They aren't the only ones who are capable of this(Polar comes to mind), but it is an approach very few take or are capable of taking.

And the end of the day though, this is all just words to you and you want to see a dyno. It's not a problem and I understand. Soon enough.

[cu260r6]

That seems to be arguing over the definition of the word 'tune' rather than my point. Seeing that evolve and AA now both rewrite the code in the ecu to play with the same variables, the product difference is all but imperceptible, even on a dyno. Comparing that to a piggyback ecu helper like the bms box is irrelevant. This idea that one specific tune is better than others is the only reason borderline scammers like the bms people are able to make a profit off the naive.

[631twentyeighteye]

A large reason to choose evolve over AA is the fact that you can pass obd2 emissions testing with evolve and not with AA(theoretically). I'm happy with my AA tune besides that fact, and it doesn't really affect me much.